Oscillation and cut out problem with Gotway MSuper V3, ACM, maybe Monster shipped from May 2017 onwards

[Toshio Uemura]

22 minutes ago, MichaelHensen said:

. and don't forget the Bluetooth module.. (I nearly did.. just noticed it as I was comparing both boards and I missed something on the new one :-))

Thank you for the advice. Do you mean, there is something on the old control board, that I have to remove and reuse with the new control board? Which part exactly is the Bluetooth module? Could you post a picture? 

[meepmeepmayer]

The bluetooth module is the small blue PCB, elevated, next to the capacitors (the two brown cylinders).

Maybe the new board already has one. If not, all you need to do is cut the white silicone stuff, unplug the bluetooth module, and plug into the new board (and re-silicone).

Picture from my ACM (same board hardware).

edit: video

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by meepmeepmayer

[Toshio Uemura]

Thank you for this important advice and your picture. I just checked the new control board I got and it has no blue Bluetooth unit mounted on it. Checking again the two video links they send me, the Bluetooth unit you describe can be clearly seen in both clips. But there is no instruction, when an where and how to remove it. So I would have probably forgotten it, if you hadn't mentioned the Bluetooth unit. Guess I have to open my MSuper first and see what it looks like in there. And I sure will take pictures of before and after, so nothing else gets overlooked.

Thanks again! Much appreciated.

[Toshio Uemura]

Thank you MichaelHensen for this important advice and thank you to meepmeepmayer for his picture. I just checked the new control board I got from Gotway and it has no blue Bluetooth unit mounted on it. Checking again the two video links they send me, the Bluetooth unit you describe can be clearly seen in both clips. But there is no instruction, when and where and how to remove it. So I would have probably forgotten it, if you hadn't mentioned the Bluetooth unit. Guess I have to open my MSuper first and see what it looks like in there. And I sure will take pictures of before and after, so nothing else gets overlooked.

Thanks again to both of you! Your advice is much appreciated.

 

[RichieV]

Have any of the latest batch of ACMs+ wheels been ridden extensively?  The batch with 1705 motor codes which received the supposed firmware fix?  I know a number of people that received MSupers have tested theirs successfully but what about the ACMs?

I received one today in a mix up and I'm debating whether to keep it or wait for restocking of the KS16S that I had switched my order to after learning about this oscillation debacle.  If I can get assurance that the ACM truly is free of the problem then I just might keep it, though Gotway is still on shaky ground in my book.

With the box just sitting there begging to be gleefully opened, my judgement might be impaired. I feel like I've been making out with a woman I've just met and we're both ready to go but I don't have any condoms  (Life pro tip, if a strange woman agrees to unprotected sex, it's probably not a good idea. This pro tip probably doesn't apply to my EUC situation.  Probably.)

[Marty Backe]

13 minutes ago, RichieV said:

Have any of the latest batch of ACMs+ wheels been ridden extensively?  The batch with 1705 motor codes which received the supposed firmware fix?  I know a number of people that received MSupers have tested theirs successfully but what about the ACMs?

I received one today in a mix up and I'm debating whether to keep it or wait for restocking of the KS16S that I had switched my order to after learning about this oscillation debacle.  If I can get assurance that the ACM truly is free of the problem then I just might keep it, though Gotway is still on shaky ground in my book.

With the box just sitting there begging to be gleefully opened, my judgement might be impaired. I feel like I've been making out with a woman I've just met and we're both ready to go but I don't have any condoms  (Life pro tip, if a strange woman agrees to unprotected sex, it's probably not a good idea. This pro tip probably doesn't apply to my EUC situation.  Probably.)

We need the provenance of the wheel to understand. The motor code means nothing in this regard. When was the wheel made (the QC sticker will help here) and where did you get it.

@Jason McNeil (EWheels) is the only seller that I would fully trust right this instant.

I received a new ACM control board that I saw him personally flash with the updated firmware. I've given the wheel a robust workout and now have total faith in it.

So if you can get assurances that the ACM has the new firmware then you can feel safe on the wheel.

[RichieV]

3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

We need the provenance of the wheel to understand. The motor code means nothing in this regard. When was the wheel made (the QC sticker will help here) and where did you get it.

@Jason McNeil (EWheels) is the only seller that I would fully trust right this instant.

I received a new ACM control board that I saw him personally flash with the updated firmware. I've given the wheel a robust workout and now have total faith in it.

So if you can get assurances that the ACM has the new firmware then you can feel safe on the wheel.

My wheel was purchased through @Jason McNeil so while I do trust that he has applied Gotway's fix, I still don't fully trust that Gotway's solution truly fixes the problem.  If anybody has ridden one of Jason's ACMs to the extent that you have ridden your fixed MSuper, it would go a long way towards alleviating my concerns.

[Marty Backe]

23 minutes ago, RichieV said:

Have any of the latest batch of ACMs+ wheels been ridden extensively?  The batch with 1705 motor codes which received the supposed firmware fix?  I know a number of people that received MSupers have tested theirs successfully but what about the ACMs?

I received one today in a mix up and I'm debating whether to keep it or wait for restocking of the KS16S that I had switched my order to after learning about this oscillation debacle.  If I can get assurance that the ACM truly is free of the problem then I just might keep it, though Gotway is still on shaky ground in my book.

With the box just sitting there begging to be gleefully opened, my judgement might be impaired. I feel like I've been making out with a woman I've just met and we're both ready to go but I don't have any condoms  (Life pro tip, if a strange woman agrees to unprotected sex, it's probably not a good idea. This pro tip probably doesn't apply to my EUC situation.  Probably.)

Personally, I would not ride any ACM or MSuper manufactured within the last few months unless it came from @Jason McNeil because he is the only dealer that I know of who is going above and beyond the call of duty and personally reflashing every wheel that he's selling. I know that he's doing this because I've looked over his shoulder as he did it and can tell you that he's a man of character in this regards. If he says the wheel is good, that's all I need.

If a brand new MSuper appeared at my doorstep I would not ride it unless the return address was EWheels or I was willing to get a replacement control board from Jason..

You don't want to experience what I went through. It's no fun.

[Marty Backe]

Just now, RichieV said:

My wheel was purchased through @Jason McNeil so while I do trust that he has applied Gotway's fix, I still don't fully trust that Gotway's solution truly fixes the problem.  If anybody has ridden one of Jason's ACMs to the extent that you have ridden your fixed MSuper, it would go a long way towards alleviating my concerns.

You're golden.

Maybe you didn't understand my statement. Jason gave me a new ===ACM=== control board that he re-flashed. I have ridden that ACM extensively and fully trust it. I've already ridden my re-flash MSuper and fully trust it too.

[Marty Backe]

5 minutes ago, RichieV said:

My wheel was purchased through @Jason McNeil so while I do trust that he has applied Gotway's fix, I still don't fully trust that Gotway's solution truly fixes the problem.  If anybody has ridden one of Jason's ACMs to the extent that you have ridden your fixed MSuper, it would go a long way towards alleviating my concerns.

The ACM is an incredible machine that is not surpassed by any other wheel at this moment, IMHO (knowing that I'm a Gotway addict). Please open that box and start enjoying the wonders of the Gotway universe. You will not be disappointed.

[RichieV]

1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

You're golden.

Maybe you didn't understand my statement. Jason gave me a new ===ACM=== control board that he re-flashed. I have ridden that ACM extensively and fully trust it. I've already ridden my re-flash MSuper and fully trust it too.

But your ACM never had the oscillation problem, only your MSuper.  So my fear is that the motor or some other component might be problematic in this "bad" batch instead of the just the control board and firmware.  If a fixed control board pairs with a known working ACM (such as yours was prior to frying the components) then of course it's going to work.  But if it turns out that a bad hall sensor connection is the issue on this batch, a fixed control board isn't going to help.

I know Gotway claims the issue is only in the firmware, but I don't know that they've supplied definitive proof.  If they had shown that they could replicate the problem and then make the problem disappear with the new firmware, I could more readily accept their fix.  Unfortunately I don't think they've shown that.

Still, the fact that you're once-problematic MSuper now, after applying the fix, seems to be problem free after many miles of riding in mixed terrain does indicate that perhaps it was a firmware issue after all.  So if someone has put the same amount of miles on their "fixed" ACM which was part of this batch and those miles were problem free, I would feel much better about opening that box.

[Marty Backe]

6 minutes ago, RichieV said:

But your ACM never had the oscillation problem, only your MSuper.  So my fear is that the motor or some other component might be problematic in this "bad" batch instead of the just the control board and firmware.  If a fixed control board pairs with a known working ACM (such as yours was prior to frying the components) then of course it's going to work.  But if it turns out that a bad hall sensor connection is the issue on this batch, a fixed control board isn't going to help.

I know Gotway claims the issue is only in the firmware, but I don't know that they've supplied definitive proof.  If they had shown that they could replicate the problem and then make the problem disappear with the new firmware, I could more readily accept their fix.  Unfortunately I don't think they've shown that.

Still, the fact that you're once-problematic MSuper now, after applying the fix, seems to be problem free after many miles of riding in mixed terrain does indicate that perhaps it was a firmware issue after all.  So if someone has put the same amount of miles on their "fixed" ACM which was part of this batch and those miles were problem free, I would feel much better about opening that box.

I fear that you will never be satisfied, which is OK. Everyone has their own comfort level.

Keep in mind that our wheels have a motor, batteries, and control board. No mysterious other components. I feel 100 percent confident that the problems that started this fiasco are due to the firmware. Besides the empirical evidence, from an engineering perspective (what I am) it makes perfect sense that the control board firmware was the source of the problem.

Open the box. You know you want to 

[RichieV]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

I fear that you will never be satisfied, which is OK. Everyone has their own comfort level.

Keep in mind that our wheels have a motor, batteries, and control board. No mysterious other components. I feel 100 percent confident that the problems that started this fiasco are due to the firmware. Besides the empirical evidence, from an engineering perspective (what I am) it makes perfect sense that the control board firmware was the source of the problem.

Open the box. You know you want to 

Oh I want to. It's calling me like the sirens beckoning Odysseus and I'm asking this forum to tie me to the mast and plug my ears 

I'm inclined to agree with your assessment. It's just Gotway's handling of this situation that has me second guessing any of their claims.

[Rehab1]

10 minutes ago, RichieV said:

I'm inclined to agree with your assessment. It's just Gotway's handling of this situation that has me second guessing any of their claims.

I understand where you are coming from but also understand @Marty Backe 's logical statements. My concern is that if Marty had not captured the oscillation and subsequent fall on video GW would never had commented on the problem let alone offer a resolution.  Unfortunately we still have zero idea as to what was wrong with the firmware to cause the oscillation and what was their unique rapid fix that corrected it.  I personally like transparency. 

[meepmeepmayer]

@RichieV You can be sure beyond any reasonable doubt the issue was the firmware and nothing else.

Wheels with motors from May 2017, wheels with motors from August 2016 that laid around almost a year in some warehouse, were all affected by the firmware bug. It only depended on the production date (when they used the bad firmware). So it is not related to the motor or the hall sensors or whatever at all. It can't be.

Also, there was not a single oscillation report from any wheel believed fixed (minus the ones Gotway simply didn't update, despite saying so). If you got it from Jason, it's doubly good!

Marty blew his board and needed a new one. The new one had the bad firmware, so he got it reflashed by Jason and everything was (predictably) fine. Which is exactly what happened to your wheel's board.

You ACM is fine! And a fantastic fun machine, I might add (just don't melt the wiring by doing crazy long and steep hills)

Edited July 18, 2017 by meepmeepmayer

[meepmeepmayer]

2 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I understand where you are coming from but also understand @Marty Backe 's logical statements. My concern is that if Marty had not captured the oscillation and subsequent fall on video GW would never had commented on the problem let alone offer a resolution.  Unfortunately we still have zero idea as to what was wrong with the firmware to cause the oscillation and what was their unique rapid fix that corrected it.  I personally like transparency. 

Gotway commented on the problem? I can't recall

Pretty sure the fix was a firmware rollback. @Jason McNeil probably can tell.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

 Sorry, I may have played a slight role in spreading some paranoia among the ranks as I think I poked at the wasp nest when there was only a single bee buzzing around in it.    I did have my reasons though!   I think my airplane crash analogy may have stirred some fears up,  but it did seem to make sense at the time.  

I think whenever a serious widespread problem like this occurs, the alarm bells go off in all directions.  Odds were in favor of a simple but inconvenient firmware update, but I was just hoping for a more thorough investigation to make absolutely sure everything else was working properly.  I'm not ashamed of being wrong in this case.  Far be it - I am glad that Gotway has restored its product line back to good.  If the problem were multi-factored, more reports would likely surface about other issues.  The reality is that nothing else seems to be reported as malfunctioning so all is well again.  Hopefully.  

[Marty Backe]

18 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Gotway commented on the problem? I can't recall

Pretty sure the fix was a firmware rollback. @Jason McNeil probably can tell.

They made one comment (I think in the forum), but the fact that they sent out firmware updaters and boxes of new control boards is a statement unto itself that the firmware was the issue.

[meepmeepmayer]

Haha, comment and statement vs "comment" and "statement". Looks like there are different standards what counts

They only did send out new boards by themselves. The firmware updater was a requirement from Jason, he would not have ordered any more Gotways otherwise. Maybe then they did it to other dealers, but looking how they were trying hard not to give out their software secrets (or believe to do so) as they refused Jason at first, probably only the dealers who asked (insisted?) got that firmware thingie. Some French dealers already had them. The rest probably just got boards.

Edited July 18, 2017 by meepmeepmayer

[RichieV]

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 9:24 PM, Marty Backe said:

Open the box. You know you want to 

I am a weak man.  Last night, temptation proved to be my undoing and I OPENED THE BOX.  In my possession is a brand new basic black ACMs+, sporting 1600wh 84v batteries.

ACM, ACM burning bright
In the suburbs of the night
What immortal foot or guy
Dare ride thy fearful symmetry?

I have joined Team Gotway.  Soon I shall be sneering imperiously at those with lesser machines while riding with mild fear and anxiety from the insane speed and possibility of a cutout. 

First impression - what a fat, heavy, little piggy of an ewheel.  I shall call it THE WARTHOG.

Edited July 19, 2017 by RichieV

[meepmeepmayer]

I call mine Ace (one syllable for ACM) or Acy or Herzilein ("honey"... I guess) occasionally

[Marty Backe]

46 minutes ago, RichieV said:

I am a weak man.  Last night, temptation proved to be my undoing and I OPENED THE BOX.  In my possession is a brand new basic black ACMs+, sporting 1600wh 84v batteries.

ACM, ACM burning bright
In the suburbs of the night
What immortal foot or guy
Dare ride thy fearful symmetry?

I have joined Team Gotway.  Soon I shall be sneering imperiously at those with lesser machines while riding with mild fear and anxiety from the insane speed and possibility of a cutout. 

First impression - what a fat, heavy, little piggy of an ewheel.  I shall call it THE WARTHOG.

Love your post man , and nice poetry. I like your description of the ACM, it really does capture the spirit of the machine.

I hope you enjoy the wheel and don't regret the box opening 

[Dingfelder]

4 hours ago, RichieV said:

First impression - what a fat, heavy, little piggy of an ewheel.  I shall call it THE WARTHOG.

Cute parody and grats!  

That's just how I felt when I unboxed my MSuper.  A bit awestruck.  These are considerable, heavy machines, especially compared to my cheapie ebay Step N Roll I've practiced on.  It's easy to picture them doing some major damage if they go flying or fall on top of you.

[meepmeepmayer]

They're only heavy when you don't ride them. Riding, they are an extension of your body, and glued to the ground thanks to the weight.

I was definitely scared of the ACMs weight and overall bulkyness when I first unboxed it. Went away quickly

[Toshio Uemura]

Congrats to RichieV!

I learned on the Ninebot One E+. And I still love to ride it in parks, where kids and older people are around, because of it's moderate speed, elegant looks and non-threatening appearance. It's a great tool for communication with the elderly. It gets this magic smile on the faces of people, a mixture of astonishment, amazement and joy. It's also perfect for practicing tricks and jumps and riding backwards. BUT the heavy weight of the ACM felt right on the first ride and left me with a smile of satisfaction. The comparison with a war machine (like a tank or a Hummer) is really tempting, because it glues you to the ground and you can feel its stablility and power while riding. I am sure RichieV will not regret his decision to let the genie out of the box. ?