Oscillation and cut out problem with Gotway MSuper V3, ACM, maybe Monster shipped from May 2017 onwards

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, Puce said:

Before reading this post I bought this friday morning a brand new Gotway Msuper 3 820, motor 1608

I have several hundreds kilometers experience with a inmotion V5F.

The gotway was setup by a Belgian dealer, 3 bar 43 psi tire pressure, sport mode, tiltback 33 Km/h 20 mph. My weight is more or less 60 Kg 130 lb.

 

I rode only 3 Km 2 miles before passing a small road repair not higher than one cm half inch high with smooth border.

Immediately the wheel started bumping with strong rotation acceleration while not touching the ground. It only took 2 meter to have the motor beeping and shutdown. I was at 20 Km/h 12 mph when my face kissed the road.

I came back home on the pavement at walking speed and had the issue a second time while going down from the pavement to the road where the pavement border was almost at road level.

At that speed I was able to control the bump oscillation and could feel my heel going up and down while my toe were stable.

 

Since this problem has been discovered two weeks ago and there still no official communication from Gotway I think I'm better asking for a refund.

 

Be aware of any recent Gotway euc if you don't want to look like me

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The problem has been confirmed by Gotway and a global fix is slowly occurring. You will need to get a new control board. Hopefully your dealer can do this for you. Once fixed, the MSuper is a fantastic wheel. I rode over 800 miles on the same model that you bought. Assuming that you liked how the MSuper rides, don't give up on it yet 

[US69]

And @Puce...

could you give the first 4 numbers from other numbers on the Quality control sticker....there must be somewhere something with "17" in front....

 

[Puce]

5 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

sorry for your fall! Get well soon! and welcome to the forum!

small hint: you have to use direct links here to a foto website...in this case imgurs "direct link"...you can edit your post

[Puce]

3 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

And @Puce...

could you give the first 4 numbers from other numbers on the Quality control sticker....there must be somewhere something with "17" in front....

 

The bar code on the box side start with 1705

[US69]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

The problem has been confirmed by Gotway and a global fix is slowly occurring. You will need to get a new control board. Hopefully your dealer can do this for you. Once fixed, the MSuper is a fantastic wheel. I rode over 800 miles on the same model that you bought. Assuming that you liked how the MSuper rides, don't give up on it yet 

I know you are a true and real Gotway Fan ...but ....i think  "confirmed"  it has been only by some dealers which worry about their customers.....and those dealers got my deepest respect for that!

Even on the Gotway FB group, here in the Forum, or somewhere else, i have not seen something "very official" from Gotway themself...where they warn their new customer not to ride because it can be potentially life threatening...

Getting it all together i find they have played a "step by step" game and only confirmed those parts when there was documented proof! The first and only statement seen here-i think also from a reseller- was mainly "our chinese customer/sellers had no problems"..........And that after about 5-10 injures/alarms from just one group in FB (Eu guy and some others)!

I can -from my side- only say that i found there behaviour at least....ridiculous ....and frightening me a lot! And i hope they suffer a good long time from that story and have to do a very, very lot in QS and Real Testing o get back some trust again!

An "official" warning/statement/excuse is -in my view- still missing.....thats sad!

 

[US69]

32 minutes ago, Puce said:

The bar code on the box side start with 1705

Thanx, yeah, thats produced/mounted/firmwared May 2017....and should be a proof for your dealer for a return!

[Hatchet]

Yes, where has Gotway confirmed anything? Who is the rep doing the confirming? Is there a link? Is this just hopeful thinking? Does GW have any reps who can speak for the company on this forum or FB? Twitter? Confirmed would be a statement from GW, not dealers doing recalls.

If it's confirmed, i'd expect a statement warning people to wait for a fix.

[Marty Backe]

45 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

I know you are a true and real Gotway Fan ...but ....i think  "confirmed"  it has been only by some dealers which worry about their customers.....and those dealers got my deepest respect for that!

Even on the Gotway FB group, here in the Forum, or somewhere else, i have not seen something "very official" from Gotway themself...where they warn their new customer not to ride because it can be potentially life threatening...

Getting it all together i find they have played a "step by step" game and only confirmed those parts when there was documented proof! The first and only statement seen here-i think also from a reseller- was mainly "our chinese customer/sellers had no problems"..........And that after about 5-10 injures/alarms from just one group in FB (Eu guy and some others)!

I can -from my side- only say that i found there behaviour at least....ridiculous ....and frightening me a lot! And i hope they suffer a good long time from that story and have to do a very, very lot in QS and Real Testing o get back some trust again!

An "official" warning/statement/excuse is -in my view- still missing.....thats sad!

 

I  understand @KingSong69. I hope you don't think that I'm an apologist for Gotway. But I'm going to be honest, and I still think they have great designs in the MSuper, ACM, Monster, and perhaps others before my time. I'm not selling my wheels.

Probably for quite some time I will recommend their products but with the strong caveat that they need to buy from a dealer that can guarantee the worthiness of the wheels. I know those dealers exist. That's all I can do.

But I'm not going to abandon Gotway.

I'm glad you are here to add balance to any fan-boy statements that I may continue to make. Between the two us of (and others of course) people can make their own decisions.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Puce said:

That's so painful to see. I hope it doesn't take too long to heal. I have yet to suffer any damage to my face, and hope not to. I'm sure that we all realize that EUC riding is a contact sport, whether by product defects or accidents in our riding style.

If you can get your MSuper fixed with assurance I hope you do. If you think your dealer doesn't really understand the issues with the MSuper, then it's probably best to return it and maybe buy a KingSong, the next closest thing to an MSuper.

[Puce]

There is a huge difference between injuries during learning curve, accident, consumer mistake, inappropriate usage, unusual failure and systematic injuries caused by product malfunction by design.

Risk assessment would be
- Hazard group : Product operating hazards, unexpected deactivation
- Consumer type : adult or older children
- Typical injury : superficial bruising (abrasion / contusion, swelling, oedema)
- Probability : 1 (close to 100% of production since may for selected product range)

The result is "Serious Risk" and, under european law the importer must report the issue to their national authorities which in turn may issue an "european Rapid Alert for dangerous non-food products". In Belgium failure to do so is punishable by a criminal fine of between €143 and €137,500.

I know that the dealers are doing their best to support their customers. Gotway should take more care of their end-users and foreign law.

[meepmeepmayer]

4 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

Thanx, yeah, thats produced/mounted/firmwared May 2017....and should be a proof for your dealer for a return!

Are you sure that's a date? My April 2017 ACM is 1609, can the motor really be 8 months old?

Also the actual serial number (not motor code) has the production date of the wheel in it.

--

I'd guess GW uses the motorcode to identify wheels because they have nothing else, why would they need the motor code instead of the production date or serial number? Must be inventory chaos in their factory.

[Dingfelder]

5 hours ago, Puce said:

Looks like no fun but not too bad as far as surface injuries go. It can be hard to tell the depth of a cut from the outside, though.  I hope your teeth are okay!  That's the more scary thing IMO.

[vla]

My motor code: 1702
Production code: 1703

I rode >700km on it.  No such oscillations problems (this is MSuper V3s+).

[WaveCut]

Important update: That guy who felt more than 7 times has 1610 batch motor, so issue seems to be disconnected from motor production date and depends on version of controller/firmware. Be careful.

[Puce]

Hopefully teeth are okay. And I was wearing knee, wrist and head safety gear. As it was my first drive with this wheel, I was at low speed.
But as fingers aren't protected and knee protections slipped down during road rubbing I've been hurt on both knee, left index, right thumb.
I also suffer from chest pain and my summer vest is ruined.

I sticked enough soft rubber on the wheel before the first test, so the wheel is almost intact. Unreliable but intact.

The dealer said he expect replacement motherboard within two weeks. I don't know who's going to test it !

[Dingfelder]

37 minutes ago, Puce said:

Hopefully teeth are okay. And I was wearing knee, wrist and head safety gear. As it was my first drive with this wheel, I was at low speed.
But as fingers aren't protected and knee protections slipped down during road rubbing I've been hurt on both knee, left index, right thumb.
I also suffer from chest pain and my summer vest is ruined.

I sticked enough soft rubber on the wheel before the first test, so the wheel is almost intact. Unreliable but intact.

The dealer said he expect replacement motherboard within two weeks. I don't know who's going to test it !

Fingers are rough; they can take forever to heal since we use them constantly.  Even if we're just draping them over something or leaning on a palm.  Hope you don't have too much aggravation from that.

Knees are the real killer though.  I really hope you did okay there.  Knee pain is excruciating and a funky knee can screw up everything from your toes to the top of your spine .. besides just being painful daily.  That stinks that your knee protection slid up at just the wrong time.  I would probably just use whatever you had for gardening and floor scrubbing now and get something you could secure better, no matter how much you paid.  Knee protection is extremely serious business.  

[The Fat Unicyclist]

51 minutes ago, Puce said:

I don't know who's going to test it !

<sigh>

Send me some plane tickets*... I'll do it! 

 

* Fat Unicyclists are required to fly business class (or better) at all times. 

Edited June 24, 2017 by The Fat Unicyclist

[esaj]

1 hour ago, WaveCut said:

Important update: That guy who felt more than 7 times has 1610 batch motor, so issue seems to be disconnected from motor production date and depends on version of controller/firmware. Be careful.

Should the topic be changed to say something like "Dangerous sudden oscillation with MSuper & ACM made from May 2017 onwards" (until they get it fixed and we can establish from where onwards the work again)? Or even stronger words, something like "Do not ride with MSuper or ACM made in May 2017 or later"?

Or maybe just start a new thread with description of the problem and instructions on how to identify the actual production date and not just motor codes.

Edited June 24, 2017 by esaj

[em1barns]

10 hours ago, Puce said:

Before reading this post I bought this friday morning a brand new Gotway Msuper 3 820, motor 1608

I have several hundreds kilometers experience with a inmotion V5F.

The gotway was setup by a Belgian dealer, 3 bar 43 psi tire pressure, sport mode, tiltback 33 Km/h 20 mph. My weight is more or less 60 Kg 130 lb.

 

I rode only 3 Km 2 miles before passing a small road repair not higher than one cm half inch high with smooth border.

Immediately the wheel started bumping with strong rotation acceleration while not touching the ground. It only took 2 meter to have the motor beeping and shutdown. I was at 20 Km/h 12 mph when my face kissed the road.

I came back home on the pavement at walking speed and had the issue a second time while going down from the pavement to the road where the pavement border was almost at road level.

At that speed I was able to control the bump oscillation and could feel my heel going up and down while my toe were stable.

 

Since this problem has been discovered two weeks ago and there still no official communication from Gotway I think I'm better asking for a refund.

 

Be aware of any recent Gotway euc if you don't want to look like me

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/aF4iS"><a href="//imgur.com/aF4iS"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

We met at the dealer's place. A 3rd Belgian guy I know just fell yesterday as well for no reason at 25km/h on Ms3 (different dealer), he is pretty badly shaked now...

Took me 9 months to have enough self conviction that Gotway had fixed issues on this model, looks like they just don't learn... 

[Dingfelder]

Maybe time to practice the old Western tradition of a management shake-up ...

[US69]

9 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I  understand @KingSong69. I hope you don't think that I'm an apologist for Gotway. But I'm going to be honest, and I still think they have great designs in the MSuper, ACM, Monster, and perhaps others before my time. I'm not selling my wheels.

Probably for quite some time I will recommend their products but with the strong caveat that they need to buy from a dealer that can guarantee the worthiness of the wheels. I know those dealers exist. That's all I can do.

But I'm not going to abandon Gotway.

I'm glad you are here to add balance to any fan-boy statements that I may continue to make. Between the two us of (and others of course) people can make their own decisions.

that was in no way a thinking of you apologizing for gotway!! one of your main threads here is named "GW screwed us up" ....so i know you are realistic and have been also hurt by what happends! i just wanted to to make clear, that i saw the "confirmed" statement a bit different! and that i think that it were more the honest dealers, that have informed GW, than the other way around....

As Forum team member, that as a plus has a name that can lead to the misinterpretation that i am a brand "Fanboy", i am always careful with my statements for or against ANY brand! But here in this case i am clearly still missing official statements as they HAVE their forummembers here and they were the complete time quiet....

I am also not going to abandon Gotway, they have there part in the market and competition is needed! But i really hope they came up with better QS and Testing. This is just needed for this type of device we put our feets on....even minor faults are leading to bad injuries.

[WaveCut]

@esaj IMO it's better to replace batch numbers with may 2017, as you proposed, and expand 1st post with additional info.

[Dingfelder]

16 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

that was in no way a thinking of you apologizing for gotway!! one of your main threads here is named "GW screwed us up" ....so i know you are realistic and have been also hurt by what happends! i just wanted to to make clear, that i saw the "confirmed" statement a bit different! and that i think that it were more the honest dealers, that have informed GW, than the other way around....

As Forum team member, that as a plus has a name that can lead to the misinterpretation that i am a brand "Fanboy", i am always careful with my statements for or against ANY brand! But here in this case i am clearly still missing official statements as they HAVE their forummembers here and they were the complete time quiet....

I am also not going to abandon Gotway, they have there part in the market and competition is needed! But i really hope they came up with better QS and Testing. This is just needed for this type of device we put our feets on....even minor faults are leading to bad injuries.

I really appreciate the input and information, and just plain friendly helpfulness I've gotten from both you guys.  I respect you both and am sure you are big assets to the forums.  Anyone who doesn't agree can hug it out and we'll be done with it.  But I think everyone agrees.

[US69]

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Are you sure that's a date? My April 2017 ACM is 1609, can the motor really be 8 months old?

Also the actual serial number (not motor code) has the production date of the wheel in it.

--

I'd guess GW uses the motorcode to identify wheels because they have nothing else, why would they need the motor code instead of the production date or serial number? Must be inventory chaos in their factory.

95% sure? GW(and KS) from my experience use the YYMMDD format on the motor in their motornumbers, but only as a "motor production date" . GW then also uses the yymmdd then in their "production" or "batch" or "serialnumber" or whatever you want to call it number, and as we have seen here in many cases the motornumbers are useless as the board flash time seams to be more by these other numbers. Or as Ian from speedy said that the last numbers identify the real batch.

from the beginning it was wrong to name this case after motornumbers....but thats how it was started by "EU GUY" on FB and how its now floating around...

 

to your 1609: Yeah, that seams a bit "old"...but why not? Nothing wronh with an unused older motor....

[Rehab1]

2 hours ago, esaj said:

Should the topic be changed to say something like "Dangerous sudden oscillation with MSuper & ACM made from May 2017 onwards" (until they get it fixed and we can establish from where onwards the work again)? Or even stronger words, something like "Do not ride with MSuper or ACM made in May 2017 or later"?

Or maybe just start a new thread with description of the problem and instructions on how to identify the actual production date and not just motor codes.

I totally concur!! If a new member or guest visiting our forum is looking for answers about the Gotway ACM or MSuper there should be a bold topic title that has zero ambiguity about the safety concerns of the ACM and MSuper manufactured post May 2017.

I like your title" Do Not Ride ACM or MSuper Manufacturered in May 2017 or Later followed with a subtitle 'Ride at Your Own Risk'!

I received an email yesterday from a Chinese dealer that sold me a new ACM main board asking me to stop riding my ACM! We all should take this very seriously! 

xiaoq-cn:

Hi Daniel, sorry to disturb you! We got to know that the mainboard you bought last time may have problem in firmware. So please stop riding it recently, we will arrange ship out new mainboard to you once we got the.new mainboard from factory. Please reply our message if you can see our message. Thanks!     I truly believe in my heart that Gotway will come out of this recall a stronger company and they will now take our forum member accident investigations seriously! GW now understands that this forum has strength in numbers along with being able to provide evidence based quantifiable data to back up our claims thanks to @Marty Backe and others!   Thank God no one has been seriously injured or died from these accidents so far! Sorry to all of those that have been injured riding their ACM and MSuper's during the past few months!  If there is a positive message, your accidents will not be in vain as you have personally contributed to a much larger cause by helping to protect other GW owners around the world from possible serious injury!

Edited June 24, 2017 by Rehab1