Mten4 announced!

[OldFartRides]

Maybe for split rims only.

[YCC]

What do you think is the peak of motor power built in MTen4? 

I ride it at 23 Kph, and push 1500W motor power within 52% capacity？

Logically, can I say that the peak power of the motor is likely to be in the range of 2500W to 3000W?

 

[Eucner]

44 minutes ago, YCC said:

What do you think is the peak of motor power built in MTen4?

It mostly depends on the length of peak. You can safely assume at least double peak power to continuous power.

[houseofjob]

20 hours ago, winterwheel said:

Okay so this came in and I'm not even going to bother trying to put in on. It's rock solid. Whatever sorcery would be needed to get this on an MTen3 rim is far beyond my skill level.

Seems like the common goto method for these solid tires is to soak them in hot water for 5-15 minutes, then apply the typical methods like soap over all the contacts plus levering via tire irons.

But yeah, that looks like a huge PITA.

 

 

[houseofjob]

10 hours ago, YCC said:

What do you think is the peak of motor power built in MTen4? 

I ride it at 23 Kph, and push 1500W motor power within 52% capacity？

Logically, can I say that the peak power of the motor is likely to be in the range of 2500W to 3000W?

It's simple math, no(?)

50E spec sheet says "Maximum pulse discharge current: 14700mA", so 14.7 Amps * 2 parallel packs * 84V = 2470 Watts peak (someone correct me if I am wrong here thx).

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

It's simple math, no(?)

50E spec sheet says "Maximum pulse discharge current: 14700mA", so 14.7 Amps * 2 parallel packs * 84V = 2470 Watts peak (someone correct me if I am wrong here thx).

That's the recommended peak power of the battery. What the controller is capable of providing, and what the motor can physically handle are separate questions.

The announced "motor power" on EUCs is a strange figure, as the exact same motor on a different EUC model can have a different power rating. Sometimes it's even been increased with just a firmware upgrade! So the announced rating does seem to concern either the output of the controller or the output of the battery as well, or both. Which is yet another reason not to concern oneself too much about the motor's "power rating" figure.

[houseofjob]

11 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

That's the recommended peak power of the battery. What the controller is capable of providing, and what the motor can physically handle are separate questions.

The announced "motor power" on EUCs is a strange figure, as the exact same motor on a different EUC model can have a different power rating. Sometimes it's even been increased with just a firmware upgrade! So the announced rating does seem to concern either the output of the controller or the output of the battery as well, or both. Which is yet another reason not to concern oneself too much about the motor's "power rating" figure.

But the battery is the source of the power in the chain, no? So shouldn't the battery peak rating be the max potential of what the controller and motor can receive in said configuration? Even if they can accept more, or on the flip side, if they cannot and have to throttle or cut off.

[Tawpie]

I've always understood "motor power rating" as the max continuous power (measured in watts) a motor can "process" into heat and thrust and rotational velocity without melting, but a marketing department can assign any meaning they choose. Which is why I totally agree with @mrelwood: don't pay too much attention to motor power rating.

We consumers are so drawn to the numbers game that we're easily fooled into assigning our own meaning to the numbers. 48 MOSFETs must be better than 24, right? More capacitors is better too. In very broad strokes it's not untrue… but the devil is always in the details.

[mrelwood]

 

17 hours ago, houseofjob said:

So shouldn't the battery peak rating be the max potential of what the controller and motor can receive in said configuration?

Even if there controller had a max power output equal or larger than the battery peak power, efficiency of the controller is not 100%, and instead the output would be something like 90% of the battery output.

What electric motor power rating means in the outside world, is exactly what @Tawpie wrote: the amount of power the motor can receive for a prolonged time. Even then though, it's not standardised how long it will go on with that power before frying.

Then there are the batteries. Maximum output current is not the maximum current the battery can ever create, but the max current it should be used for. Li-ion cells can create much higher currents momentarily. There's no hard line after which things turn sour either, it's just the current that all battery cells of that make are supposed to be able to create without damaging themselves too obviously. Many units can be used with higher amps without issues. But just some may not.

So out of the three components, none of them have a clear maximum power anything. It's all a bit fluid.

But no matter how anyone would do their best in educating people, actual information is so outdated, it will never catch on. Bigger number is better. Period.

[houseofjob]

18 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I've always understood "motor power rating" as the max continuous power (measured in watts) a motor can "process" into heat and thrust and rotational velocity without melting, but a marketing department can assign any meaning they choose. Which is why I totally agree with @mrelwood: don't pay too much attention to motor power rating.

We consumers are so drawn to the numbers game that we're easily fooled into assigning our own meaning to the numbers. 48 MOSFETs must be better than 24, right? More capacitors is better too. In very broad strokes it's not untrue… but the devil is always in the details.

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Even if there controller had a max power output equal or larger than the battery peak power, efficiency of the controller is not 100%, and instead the output would be something like 90% of the battery output.

What electric motor power rating means in the outside world, is exactly what @Tawpie wrote: the amount of power the motor can receive for a prolonged time. Even then though, it's not standardised how long it will go on with that power before frying.

Then there are the batteries. Maximum output current is not the maximum current the battery can ever create, but the max current it should be used for. Li-ion cells can create much higher currents momentarily. There's no hard line after which things turn sour either, it's just the current that all battery cells of that make are supposed to be able to create without damaging themselves too obviously. Many units can be used with higher amps without issues. But just some may not.

So out of the three components, none of them have a clear maximum power anything. It's all a bit fluid.

But no matter how anyone would do their best in educating people, actual information is so outdated, it will never catch on. Bigger number is better. Period.

 

Thanks, but while I can appreciate all of this, OP was asking specifically peak with the specific configuration of the stock MTen4:

 

On 9/19/2022 at 8:34 AM, YCC said:

Logically, can I say that the peak power of the motor is likely to be in the range of 2500W to 3000W?

 

... and I don't like to do the old Uncle thing of answering with an answer to a different question, so was only talking within OP's original constraints of "peak".

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by houseofjob

[YCC]

On 9/20/2022 at 6:51 AM, houseofjob said:

It's simple math, no(?)

50E spec sheet says "Maximum pulse discharge current: 14700mA", so 14.7 Amps * 2 parallel packs * 84V = 2470 Watts peak (someone correct me if I am wrong here thx).

@houseofjob I like your calculation, and @mrelwood your  idea of power utilization is very helpful.

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 

Even if there controller had a max power output equal or larger than the battery peak power, efficiency of the controller is not 100%, and instead the output would be something like 90% of the battery output.

Therefore, I guess the peak power of motor built in MTen4 may be around 2000W to 2200W if I combined the 80% to 90% utilization and the calculation of peak current of battery. 
 

14.7 Amps* 2 pack * 84V* 80%utilization= 1975 

14.7 Amps* 2 pack * 84V* 90%utilization= 2222

 

 

[wstuart]

....... should I replace the busted board on my mten3...... or just order an mten4?  Tough call....

[gon2fast]

3 minutes ago, wstuart said:

....... should I replace the busted board on my mten3...... or just order an mten4? 

Both?

[wstuart]

1 minute ago, gon2fast said:

Both?

Well of course that's what's going to happen!

I guess I asked the wrong question.  I should have asked which should I do first?

[LeKeiser]

hello everyone

Just a stupid question : the specs say that max load is 100kg. Is it because the pedals might break? Is it because of the motor? The brakes? 
This nice little wheel is making me medidate a lot... It would be a great little vehicle to use to go to the theater, to get some errands, stuffs like that. But I weigh 98kg without my bag and of course my clothes  
Such a cutty

Edited September 22, 2022 by LeKeiser

[rebeuc]

5 hours ago, LeKeiser said:

Just a stupid question : the specs say that max load is 100kg. Is it because the pedals might break? Is it because of the motor? The brakes?

What specs say this? I have not seen any official specs for this wheel that mention a weight limit.

I had emailed Jason at ewheels and he was expecting the weight limit to be substantially higher, closer to 120kg, but no official rating published yet unless I missed it

[LeKeiser]

1 hour ago, rebeuc said:

What specs say this? I have not seen any official specs for this wheel that mention a weight limit.

I had emailed Jason at ewheels and he was expecting the weight limit to be substantially higher, closer to 120kg, but no official rating published yet unless I missed it

Here it says 90kg, less than what I wrote : https://eunicycle.com.au/products/begode-mten4

You're right, it says here 120kg : https://voltride.com/gotway-begode-mten4/

But again, this site says Max Load : 100kg https://www.gyroroue-shop.fr/boutique/gyroroue-monoroue/gotway/begode-mten4
 

Quote

Avec ses roues gonflables de 11 pouces et son poids de 13 kg pour une charge maximale de 100 kg,

 

So I wonder... I guess it's closer to 100kg. But why again? The pedals might break? The motor? Or just a reduced autonomy? 

[Paradox]

5 minutes ago, LeKeiser said:

So I wonder... I guess it's closer to 100kg. But why again? The pedals might break? The motor? Or just a reduced autonomy?

Axle is a weak point of the tiny motor on the Mten3.  I am not sure if it has been updated,

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, Paradox said:

Axle is a weak point of the tiny motor on the Mten3.  I am not sure if it has been updated,

In Wrongway's video below, @Jack ex-KS explained that the axle of the MTen-4 is still the same size, but the orientation has changed. Time-stamped. 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by techyiam

[Ben Hatfield]

Just watched the Dennis Hagov yt review for this wheel, Mten4.  His demolition of this wheel is so complete he apologizes to anyone who was interested in this wheel, also wondering what Begode will make of his review.  A lot of this review is subjective - fun factor, direction of EUC design, overall rating on wheel.  But his observations on value, performance and utility seem pretty on point, talking experience, results and facts.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmTESPy5cr8

 

[meepmeepmayer]

29 minutes ago, Ben Hatfield said:

Just watched the Dennis Hagov yt review for this wheel, Mten4.  His demolition of this wheel is so complete he apologizes to anyone who was interested in this wheel, also wondering what Begode will make of his review.  A lot of this review is subjective - fun factor, direction of EUC design, overall rating on wheel.  But his observations on value, performance and utility seem pretty on point, talking experience, results and facts.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmTESPy5cr8

This is pretty damning! While I do love the simplicity of the latest Begode designs, this looks half-finished and "homemade" (as he says). Look at those welds. Plus performance and practicality issues. 1250€ for this? For half the price you could maybe accept it.

[UtahRider]

2 hours ago, Ben Hatfield said:

Just watched the Dennis Hagov yt review for this wheel, Mten4.  His demolition of this wheel is so complete he apologizes to anyone who was interested in this wheel, also wondering what Begode will make of his review.  A lot of this review is subjective - fun factor, direction of EUC design, overall rating on wheel.  But his observations on value, performance and utility seem pretty on point, talking experience, results and facts.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmTESPy5cr8

 

Great timing, just got shipping notice. I could maybe overlook some of the cheesy design flaws but Denise made this wheel look too weak for my comfort. Damn.

[Nick McCutcheon]

17 hours ago, Ben Hatfield said:

Just watched the Dennis Hagov yt review for this wheel, Mten4.  His demolition of this wheel is so complete he apologizes to anyone who was interested in this wheel, also wondering what Begode will make of his review.  A lot of this review is subjective - fun factor, direction of EUC design, overall rating on wheel.  But his observations on value, performance and utility seem pretty on point, talking experience, results and facts.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmTESPy5cr8

 

Anyone have a mirror? Seems to be private now unfortunately. There is a Russian version, but I'm not sure if it's the same video or a different one: https://youtu.be/6sIkA9WwsdM

[techyiam]

31 minutes ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

Anyone have a mirror? Seems to be private now unfortunately. There is a Russian version, but I'm not sure if it's the same video or a different one: https://youtu.be/6sIkA9WwsdM

Sorry, I don't, but you didn't miss much. He basically trashed it without much basis, IMO. It was just his subjective opinions. 

His video could be construed as slander since its assertions are not based on science, or it was being overly critical for price of the wheel.

For example:

The MTen-4 reminds me of the Jetson Bolt Pro e-bike. It is a very inexpensive, super high value e-bike. But it is a low cost design that is well thought out, well designed, and well made.

Another example would be to condemn the Honda Accord because the quality of parts used is not like what was used in the old Mercedes Benz E-Class cars.

Edited September 23, 2022 by techyiam

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

Anyone have a mirror? Seems to be private now unfortunately. There is a Russian version, but I'm not sure if it's the same video or a different one: https://youtu.be/6sIkA9WwsdM

It's a different video (he talks English in the English one), but probably the content is the same.

Maybe he got a dud, which would explain the unexpected performance issues and the removal of the video (easy to overlean with a strong acceleration, and happened on grass where imho there were no big stresses) that an mten3 surely (in my view) would not have had.

All other criticism in his video was fair imho. It's not slander to be critical or have a negative opinion.

• Bad ergonomics (side hurts the legs) and bad pedals (he considers it weak material, and there is nothing against slipping except very small bumps. Neither studs nor grip tape.)
• Does not like the tire.
• He says it's just not fun to ride due to this. If all EUCs were this not-fun, people would not ride.
• Build is very basic and the price is way too high for what you get. Hard for me to disagree, watching his disassembly. This really looks like a DIY project. I have to applaud Begode for the genius simplicity of the mten4, but the execution is just so sloppy and basic and unrefined.
• No waterproofing or any other refinement anywhere, it's just barebones slapped together. (My opinion: If this were a very low price wheel experiment, that would be ok, but not for a "real" wheel.)

Watch the latter part of the Russian video, where he disassembles it. Draw your own conclusions from what he shows and the price Begode want for it.

Edited September 23, 2022 by meepmeepmayer