Inmotion V13 Speculation

[techyiam]

Perhaps the big cruisers are catching on?

The EX20S weighs about 104 lbs.

Both the EX20S HS and the EX20S HT are sold out at Alienrides. 

EUCO is accepting preorders for the EX20S HS & HT. 

Even E-RIDES is selling both EX20S HS & HT too. But they are on back order. It looks like Afeez Kay has changed his tune. Early on Afeez said he won't carry them, and would consider selling them after the EX20S have been upgraded to 134.4V.

Very interesting development. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by techyiam

[Paul g]

21 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

Its no surprise to me at all. IIRC I actually predicted this in a post I made last year or so, when first hints of the V13 started appearing. It is just the perfect solution for an EUC - mechanically simple, lightweight, robust, well protected from impact damage and dirt, easily adjustable to rider weight by reducing or increasing air pressure. The slightly increased amount of stiction from the seals is of negligible importance for an EUC where you stand on your feet with bent knees all the time. And from what I have read the S22 has even more stiction and is even less smooth than the V11, despite the steel-coil-plus-oil-damping shock absorber.

I predict other EUC manufacturers will quietly start adopting that suspension system over time untill all the levers-plus-external-shock-systems have died out.

Yeap! And if they don’t they’ll be outperformed. Maybe make something even more compact and light weight then this.

[mike_bike_kite]

I understand the best selling EUC of all time was the Inmotion V8. What I don't understand is why they develop an EUC like this. Sure, it has all the bells and whistles, but I just can't believe there are that many customers out there that are willing to pay that sort of price. I think I understand the ideas behind creating a halo product like this but is it really that much above an EX20S or KS S22 to be called a halo product? I do hope the ideas incorporated into the wheel will filter down to other wheels but will these ideas get tested enough in a wheel that few can afford and even fewer will be willing to test to the extreme? It just seems there are too many real life compromises that have to be made (price & weight) to build a wheel that matches a couple of folks fantasies (speed). 

[techyiam]

17 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

What I don't understand is why they develop an EUC like this.

Since you live in the UK, can you even ride an euc, and not be worried of being pulled over by police? Won't you draw too much attention if you ride faster than ebikes and e-kick-scooters?

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

Very disappointed in the v13 challenger why advertise the wheel as a 140 kph wheel in the specs if it’s electronically governed at 90 kph ?. @Inmotion Globali understand having a safe margin to protect against cutouts but a 50 kph margin is bullshit.I’ll just wait now and see the response from begode hopefully they come out with a BEGODE BEAST 

[Rawnei]

5 minutes ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

Very disappointed in the v13 challenger why advertise the wheel as a 140 kph wheel in the specs if it’s electronically governed at 90 kph ?. @Inmotion Globali understand having a safe margin to protect against cutouts but a 50 kph margin is bullshit.I’ll just wait now and see the response from begode hopefully they come out with a BEGODE BEAST 

There is a big difference between lift speed vs riding outdoors against wind, in reality this could potentially mean it has a 30% safety margin in reality which would be on-par with most other EUCs.

[techyiam]

Aerodynamic drag increases with the square of speed.

Also, there is not much data on riding euc's at speeds over 90 km/h. Let's see how 90 km/h top speed work out first. You can still experiment going at 100+ km/h if you can find a long enough, and steep enough mountain highway. And I suppose good medical insurance coverage would come handy when things go sideways. 

[Robse]

At some point of speed - depending on size and weight of rider,  an equilibrium state will occur, where the aerodynamic drag will exceed the downforce the driver can apply on the pedals, and higher speed will be impossible to obtain. On the other hand: If the lean angel becomes greater than 45 (in theory), drag (from the body surface) will be drastic reduced,  however the downforce that the wheel has to equalize qua acceleration (to prevent a faceplant)  will be extreme - to extreme for any wheel to handle.  It will be something like this:

 

[mike_bike_kite]

14 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Since you live in the UK, can you even ride an euc, and not be worried of being pulled over by police? Won't you draw too much attention if you ride faster than ebikes and e-kick-scooters?

I don't think the police are the limiting speed factor for me. My own EUC is considerably faster than any ebike or eskooter I've met on the roads. The limiting factor for me is just knowing how much it's going to hurt if I fall off at speed and also understanding that it's far more likely to happen if I'm riding at speed. I do nearly all my riding at around 25mph where I feel comfortable. Any faster and I don't enjoy the ride, any slower and I start to obstruct traffic. Obviously some folk are more skilled than me and have more stable wheels or are just more willing to accept a higher level of risk. 

The problem for me with wheels like these is that we're taking an almost perfect form of urban transport and trying to turn it into something it can never be. In the process we're losing all the features that made it so good for urban transport. An EUC will never be as good as a motorbike (or car) on a fast road - less stability, weaker braking, less range, can't take passengers or luggage, no safety features, poor lighting and no useful indicators all count against the EUC. Unfortunately, a 50Kg EUC is also no longer useful urban transport that I can unobtrusively park under a desk at work and, at $4500, I'm certainly not going to leave it outside.

Does it matter to me that companies produce wheels like the V13, EX20S and S22? not at all, I like reading all the reviews, but it bothers me that we don't have the same innovations appearing in the smaller lighter wheels that most people actually ride. 

[Cerbera]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

Since you live in the UK, can you even ride an euc, and not be worried of being pulled over by police? Won't you draw too much attention if you ride faster than ebikes and e-kick-scooters?

I think it's about picking your moments. I will be pottering around town, shopping with my master not a lot faster than walking speed a lot of the time, and the big bursts of power and velocity are going to be reserved for those long empty cycle paths where police never are, and big wide forest trails and open parkland well away from roads, and at non-peak times of day.  I would not be brave / foolhardy enough to try and ride these on the roads in big cities like London, where I imagine it is almost impossible not to 'stand out' to police every time they see you !

[techyiam]

3 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

I think it's about picking your moments. I will be pottering around town, shopping with my master not a lot faster than walking speed a lot of the time, and the big bursts of power and velocity are going to be reserved for those long empty cycle paths where police never are, and big wide forest trails and open parkland well away from roads, and at non-peak times of day.  I would not be brave / foolhardy enough to try and ride these on the roads in big cities like London, where I imagine it is almost impossible not to 'stand out' to police every time they see you !

Exactly. Time and place.

[techyiam]

15 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

but it bothers me that we don't have the same innovations appearing in the smaller lighter wheels that most people actually ride. 

Can you give examples of the smaller, lighter wheels that you are referring to?

 

25 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

 I do nearly all my riding at around 25mph where I feel comfortable. Any faster and I don't enjoy the ride, any slower and I start to obstruct traffic.

25 mph is not slow compared to ebikes. Are you still riding in bike lanes, or side of roads? If you go slower, what or who are you obstructing? 

Before I improved my V12, added power pads, and spike pedals, I would have been happy riding at 25 mph on bicycle routes, which consisted mostly of side streets and some bike paths. Most of the time, I would not be able to ride at 25 mph. But I could go as slow as I want. There is almost no traffic where I ride.

However, since the driver board replacement, and the improvements I made on it, along with adding power pads and spike pedals, I have ventured out onto streets.

My V12 has become so much more stable and planted, 25 mph seemed slow now. I can brake much harder than before. But if there is no traffic, clear views, I can comfortably go 30+ mph. 35+ mph on certain section of roads that have no intersections and pedestrians traffic, or on main roads when there are little traffic. I can even go 50+ on bike lanes next to certain highways. But at higher speeds, wind can be a problem. This is where motorcycles are clearly superior for now.

56 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

An EUC will never be as good as a motorbike (or car) on a fast road - less stability, weaker braking, less range,

I would have to disagree here. I used to think like that. But after my recent experience with my V12, I have to say, it is getting close to like riding my cbr125r. I think some of the other wheels are even closer to it than my V12.

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

Very disappointed in the v13 challenger why advertise the wheel as a 140 kph wheel in the specs if it’s electronically governed at 90 kph ?.

It was never advertised as a 140kph wheel. Every single wheel must have and do have a higher free spin speed than the max riding speed. The community has been comparing mainly the free spin speeds because nobody (except @Nick McCutcheon...) actually rides that fast. It's about the safety headroom. And here we have it, just what the community wanted.

2 hours ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

@Inmotion Globali understand having a safe margin to protect against cutouts but a 50 kph margin is bullshit.

70% of the free spin speed has been a common riding speed headroom with EUCs for a long time. On the V13 it's 64%. Are you disappointed because of the added 6%? Surely you must know that the headroom must increase the faster you go. How were you not expecting this?

2 hours ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

I’ll just wait now and see the response from begode hopefully they come out with a BEGODE BEAST 

If a Begode is enough for you, why not. They already announced the Master Pro, since they didn't want to have only the second heaviest wheel on the market... 

[Mars Bless]

3 hours ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

Very disappointed in the v13 challenger why advertise the wheel as a 140 kph wheel in the specs if it’s electronically governed at 90 kph ?. @Inmotion Globali understand having a safe margin to protect against cutouts but a 50 kph margin is bullshit.I’ll just wait now and see the response from begode hopefully they come out with a BEGODE BEAST 

I think Begode just put out what you're looking for with the Master Pro. 4800wh 134v. Surely can do high speed rides with that kind of battery for a long time. 

[meepmeepmayer]

32 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

They already announced the Master Pro

I thought this was a joke. Then I looked. It was no joke. Begode being Begode.

The V13 still has the higher free spin speed though.

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I thought this was a joke. Then I looked. It was no joke. Begode being Begode.

The V13 still has the higher free spin speed though.

Awesome 👏4800wh master pro …..free spin don’t mean shit the v13 now been governed at 90 kph 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Dosingpsychedelics

[Wraith Rider]

45 minutes ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

Awesome 👏4800wh master pro …..free spin don’t mean shit the v13 now been governed at 90 kph 

Good luck with that lol.  Send a video when you get it!

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

43 minutes ago, Wraith Rider said:

Good luck with that lol.  Send a video when you get it!

It’s gunna be a beast of a wheel 

 

[Unventor]

On 8/12/2022 at 4:29 PM, Greg X said:

well, it seems that Monster 22" stay still more resonable choice - same tire, similiar range and comfort, simpler construction, better reliability, MUCH less weight (28kg vs 50kg), smaller case size, and....40% of price v13. 

Ofc. v13 looks nice, but all that it offers isn't worth to pay extra 2600usd.

If only Begode could make Monster4 with 2700wh battery and price max 2k usd - it would be true besteller.

Nope it will not. 

Not all would buy a GW-branded wheel.  

Just as much you are not keen on an Inmotion wheel too.  

The big mistake here is that Inmotion made a wheel to bring over GW-buyers.  And I doubt it will ever happen. 

On 8/12/2022 at 12:53 PM, Greg X said:

almost 5000 for plastic chineese euc-toy, which will be broken after 2-3 years - is pure joke. 

Used car cost same and last 10x longer.

That is what you expect when owning a GW-branded euc.  It does not mean Inmotion didn't try to make a proper wheel.  But when you ask for top speed then that comes at a cost in build and money.  

The Challanger is not just made of plastic. It has a metal frame or structure.  That said I don't think we have yet seen any brand that made so many changes to build what people asked for in the community.  But what people didn't think about is how to make a safer wheel doing these top speed and when and how to use that top speed. 

In my case, I would never ride this fast. So buying the Challanger would be an overinvestment. I could ride it at slower speeds but I  am sure we will see better executions for that target group of riders. 

In the end I am expecting my next EUC to be an Inmotion build.  I have not at any point seen anything from GW-brands that were remotely interesting for me. So that is why I don't go into GW section of the forum.  

Now what I do expect is prices on EUCs to increase as everything else increases. These are the times we live in. Inflation is up and it hits raw materials.  

 

[Unventor]

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The V13 still has the higher free spin speed though.

I don't see this as important at all. 

What matters is what torque headroom you have at the speed you intend to ride and how safe a spike can be handled by all links.  That mean batteries, control boards, wires and motor, combined withe traction on the ground. 

Free spin speed is way too simple way to look at this and it came from a time when GW could do the most and when wheels were not as fast as these days. 

It was easy marketing stunt from GW when other wheels were capped and GW didn't cap their wheels.  

And yes I know most will argue against this.  But we talk principle of self balancing wheels not a ev that have balance on +1 wheels. 

[Hellkitten]

How many riders are extremely brand specific? I know a few people that will ONLY buy from one company and are rabid about it. But for the most part I see riders buying wheels based on what they want, even having mixed brands and sizes to suit their needs. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Cranium]

1 hour ago, Hellkitten said:

How many riders are extremely brand specific? I know a few people that will ONLY buy from one company and are rabid about it. But for the most part I see riders buying wheels based on what they want, even having mixed brands and sizes to suit their needs. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I would say I'm brand specific as to what wheels I tend to avoid.  I am sour on Ninebot because of the Ninebot One P (P stood for POS).  Begode because of the bad reputation they had a few years back under the name Gotway.

[wstuart]

12 hours ago, Robse said:

At some point of speed - depending on size and weight of rider,  an equilibrium state will occur, where the aerodynamic drag will exceed the downforce the driver can apply on the pedals, and higher speed will be impossible to obtain. On the other hand: If the lean angel becomes greater than 45 (in theory), drag (from the body surface) will be drastic reduced,  however the downforce that the wheel has to equalize qua acceleration (to prevent a faceplant)  will be extreme - to extreme for any wheel to handle.  It will be something like this:

 

I bet we will learn that a rider will have to be seated to go past 60mph

[UtahRider]

12 hours ago, Robse said:

At some point of speed - depending on size and weight of rider,  an equilibrium state will occur, where the aerodynamic drag will exceed the downforce the driver can apply on the pedals, and higher speed will be impossible to obtain. On the other hand: If the lean angel becomes greater than 45 (in theory), drag (from the body surface) will be drastic reduced,  however the downforce that the wheel has to equalize qua acceleration (to prevent a faceplant)  will be extreme - to extreme for any wheel to handle.  It will be something like this:

 

These issues can be greatly reduced by proper software.

[LightWave]

The sound of the v13 is just amazing, please send me a beta to test! lol IDK but we need to start designing our own wheels here in USA/Canada with bigger tires and 100% waterproof / snowproof. This consumerist buying the next new everything from overseas and waiting for all kinds of issues with manufacturing is getting old