Inmotion V13 Speculation

[mrelwood]

7 hours ago, Hellkitten said:

How many riders are extremely brand specific?

Quite a few. But for most it seems to come from personal experiences, either positive or negative. Sadly, even a single warranty case can make some people avoid the brand for forever, even when it's a statistical fact that someone will get a lemon, no matter the model.

I've also read some people urging everyone else to avoid a brand as well simply because their wheel didn't match their requirements. Just yesterday someone riding a V10F did that since it tilts back when trying to launch fast past intersections in the middle of traffic. Something tells me though that that kind of a brand anger might not last very long... We all grow up after all, the faster the younger we are.

[mike_bike_kite]

15 hours ago, techyiam said:

Can you give examples of the smaller, lighter wheels that you are referring to?

V8F, V10F, KS 16S, Tesla (EUC not car). I understand Inmotion sold more V8's than all the other wheels combined by all manufacturers. We don't see that many on here as they're ridden more by people who use them for transport than as a hobby or passion.

  

15 hours ago, techyiam said:

25 mph is not slow compared to ebikes. Are you still riding in bike lanes, or side of roads? If you go slower, what or who are you obstructing? 

There aren't many bike lanes where I ride but, if there were, then I'd be happy to use them but obviously that would mean I'd need to slow down a bit to not endanger the cyclists. I'm not keen on riding on the side of roads because you get a lot of imperfections in the road there but, if I'm on a road where the traffic is moving faster than me then that's where I'd go. Most of the time I ride pretty much where the driver of a car would be and I ride at the same speed as the cars. I tend to pick my routes to avoid being on roads where I'll feel at risk.

Cars over here don't have any idea about EUCs so, if they see an EUC in front of them, they'll just treat it like a bicycle and try and force their way past. It doesn't matter what speed you're doing. It doesn't matter whether you're in nose to tail traffic where the only gain from an overtake is about 6 feet. 

  

15 hours ago, techyiam said:

However, since the driver board replacement, and the improvements I made on it, along with adding power pads and spike pedals, I have ventured out onto streets.

My V12 has become so much more stable and planted, 25 mph seemed slow now. I can brake much harder than before. But if there is no traffic, clear views, I can comfortably go 30+ mph. 35+ mph on certain section of roads that have no intersections and pedestrians traffic, or on main roads when there are little traffic. I can even go 50+ on bike lanes next to certain highways. But at higher speeds, wind can be a problem. This is where motorcycles are clearly superior for now.

Just remember that the bicycle lanes were put there to protect the bicyclists from fast moving traffic. They will not be happy if come up at them at 50mph in their dedicated "slow" lane. Wind from trucks passing will also have a massive effect on an EUC, it certainly has a pretty big effect on cars and motorcycles. Then there's the debris that can gather at the side of the road - can you avoid things you only see at the last second at 50mph and not swerve into a passing vehicle? Finally there's cut outs - how much do you trust Chinese electronics knowing that if you get end up in the road and get hit by a vehicle then you're going to die (that top of the range helmet and leather suit is not made of kryptonite). Then there's your 50Kg wheel cartwheeling across the highway - if it hits someone then, at the very least, it's going to be costly. If it hits a motorcyclist or goes through a windscreen then it's quite likely to be fatal. Are you insured for that?

17 hours ago, techyiam said:

But after my recent experience with my V12, I have to say, it is getting close to like riding my cbr125r. I think some of the other wheels are even closer to it than my V12.

I've ridden motorbikes for 30+ years and I think just about every bike I've owned has broken down at some point. Usually I could just about fix them at the side of the road but sometimes I'd end up pushing them home. If an EUC breaks down at 50mph then you're just going to wake up in hospital (if you're lucky). I know I come across as a very conservative type but I promise you I'm not (I've actually spent the past week throwing myself off a mountain attached to a wing). If you're going to do dangerous sports then you have to have to fully understand the risks you're taking. Riding an EUC at 50mph in traffic is a very dangerous sport.

[techyiam]

9 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

V8F, V10F, KS 16S, Tesla (EUC not car). I understand Inmotion sold more V8's than all the other wheels combined by all manufacturers. We don't see that many on here as they're ridden more by people who use them for transport than as a hobby or passion.

OK, basically learner's wheels.

And yet Inmotion ventured out into the high performance market segment without paying much attention to the V8 line.

The Ninja 250 from 1988 to 2007 had only had minor tweaks. But it was the perfect learner's bike for Canada and the US. Highly reliable, low cost and rode great. No other learner's bike could challenge it. Learner's wheels need to be low cost, reliable, and easy to ride. The development and tooling costs are already paid for. You can't beat them for value. No manufacturers would want to have to increase their prices and lose sales. And they sell, as is. Any challenger would fail to compete.

The learner's wheels market has already stabilized. Each wheel is unique enough not to step on each others' toes. For example, the T3. For the price, it had good specs, but lacks quality and refinement. It worked out great for me as a learner's wheel. And still has the range to work as my backup. No other wheel could challenge that. The MTen-3 is another example; it has no competitors. 

I also suspect the learner's wheel market segment growth is not great. On the other hand, the growth of upgrade-wheels is ever growing exponentially since new riders and most existing riders, would upgrade constantly, perpetually, it seems.

Moreover, I suspect profit margins are not that fat for learner's wheels.

I think what shocked Gotway, Inmotion and Kingsong was Leaper Kim's success story. A new comer that created a market segment all for themselves from scratch overnight. And the Sherman was an expensive wheel with higher profit margins. And this wheel was a heavy, ponderous, high speed wheel for its time. High risks no doubt, but it paid off handsomely. 

It almost seem like the other manufacturers want to duplicate this success, even knowing the risks, especially for Kingsong and Inmotion. Gotway has been trying to squash Leaper Kim since its inception using all available means, and failed. So, they are always in.

The irony of course is that even Leaper Kim has been unsuccessful with its retried attempt with the Abrams. 

I do think wheels like the V13 and Master Pro have more of a complete package to function as a "portable " motorcycle, or one wheel motorcycle. The only question is are there enough riders who will bite, at this level.

 

9 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Most of the time I ride pretty much where the driver of a car would be and I ride at the same speed as the cars. I tend to pick my routes to avoid being on roads where I'll feel at risk.

You take a lot more risk than I. At the current time, when I am on the road, the road is basically empty.

The other thing is you are in London, where the police enforces the "euc's are illegal "law. And you ride in traffic. How do you manage that?

I was at a major intersection, away from bicycle lanes or bike paths waiting at a red light. It so happens a police cruiser came beside me. Nope, they didn't bat an eye. Euc's are illega here as well. But the police don't enforce that law here.

 

9 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Just remember that the bicycle lanes were put there to protect the bicyclists from fast moving traffic. They will not be happy if come up at them at 50mph in their dedicated "slow" lane. 

No, where and when I ride, the road is practically empty, and the bike lanes are rarely used. The road is straight and open. I can see anyone in front of me easily for a half a mile away. There is no way I can be surprised. Since even the highway is quite empty when I ride. Should there be a cyclist, I just go on the road to pass (this would be a rare occurence). Note that I have not gone 50 mph yet, since I am riding a V12. But I could easily go 60 mph without worry.

 

9 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Then there's the debris that can gather at the side of the road - can you avoid things you only see at the last second at 50mph and not swerve into a passing vehicle? Finally there's cut outs - how much do you trust Chinese electronics knowing that if you get end up in the road and get hit by a vehicle then you're going to die (that top of the range helmet and leather suit is not made of kryptonite). Then there's your 50Kg wheel cartwheeling across the highway - if it hits someone then, at the very least, it's going to be costly. If it hits a motorcyclist or goes through a windscreen then it's quite likely to be fatal. Are you insured for that?

No debris, because I know the road, and it is always clean. This is an unlikely scenario. I don't have to worry about swerving into another vehicle because the car lanes are generously wide even for a semi, and the bike lane are as well. On top of that, there is not much traffic and there are two lanes. Furthermore, drivers here are quite defensive. They would give me tons of room even though I already have tons of room. Chances of getting hit by a car here is almost zero. I even saw a cyclist went into the car lane to pass another cyclist. The cars are traveling 80 , 90, 100+ km/h. The cyclist saw the cars coming at high speeds, he still went into the car lane and blocked the cars. The crazy thing is that the bike lane there is as wide as the car lanes, super wide. The cyclist still went into traffic. And the cars did not run him over. In fact, there was no close call. The drivers on this highway are careful drivers. Hard to believe, but true story.

I am not that worry about my V12 breaking down. It has about 5000 km's. It has two moving parts: wheel and wheel bearings, plus solid state electronics. I would say low risk. The worse outcome would be a cutout. I won't be colliding with anything. It am certainly not in a worse scenario than when I ride my motorcycle on the freeway. I would say it is highly unlikely I would hurt anyone, or do property damage of others.0 The hwy basically has very few cars and usually no bicycle traffic when I ride.

 

9 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I've ridden motorbikes for 30+ years and I think just about every bike I've owned has broken down at some point. Usually I could just about fix them at the side of the road but sometimes I'd end up pushing them home. If an EUC breaks down at 50mph then you're just going to wake up in hospital (if you're lucky). I know I come across as a very conservative type but I promise you I'm not (I've actually spent the past week throwing myself off a mountain attached to a wing). If you're going to do dangerous sports then you have to have to fully understand the risks you're taking. Riding an EUC at 50mph in traffic is a very dangerous sport.

Interesting, I have ridden for 30+ years. But I have never have a motorcycle breaking down on me. The CBR125R, NINJA 300, or Bandit have been bullet proof. Just mostly change engine oil and lube chain frequently. I haven't even had a flat tire. Mind you I do keep my bikes in great tune.  Are you riding Ducati's?

I won't know for sure as to how severe my injuries will be, should I have a cutout at 80 km/h, but I do mitigate my risks. I know there will be no collusion, so it all depends on how I land on the ground, and how effective are my gear.

Edited August 14, 2022 by techyiam

[Greg X]

v13 looked nice at first, i appreciate that IM finally try euc 22". But.......

 

.....Begode presented something better. Master Pro 22" 4800wh. They planned this long ago, i heared about Master 4800wh around march/april.  

1800wh battery more (!), similiar weight, better suspension system, and all this for cheaper price 

[Paul g]

14 minutes ago, Greg X said:

v13 looked nice at first, i appreciate that IM finally try euc 22". But.......

 

.....Begode presented something better. Master Pro 22" 4800wh. They planned this long ago, i heared about Master 4800wh around march/april.  

1800wh battery more (!), similiar weight, better suspension system, and all this for cheaper price 

…and batteries wrapped in cardboard, for light weight and for thrills??? 

[Yamanator]

6 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

V8F, V10F, KS 16S, Tesla (EUC not car). I understand Inmotion sold more V8's than all the other wheels combined by all manufacturers. We don't see that many on here as they're ridden more by people who use them for transport than as a hobby or passion.

  

There aren't many bike lanes where I ride but, if there were, then I'd be happy to use them but obviously that would mean I'd need to slow down a bit to not endanger the cyclists. I'm not keen on riding on the side of roads because you get a lot of imperfections in the road there but, if I'm on a road where the traffic is moving faster than me then that's where I'd go. Most of the time I ride pretty much where the driver of a car would be and I ride at the same speed as the cars. I tend to pick my routes to avoid being on roads where I'll feel at risk.

Cars over here don't have any idea about EUCs so, if they see an EUC in front of them, they'll just treat it like a bicycle and try and force their way past. It doesn't matter what speed you're doing. It doesn't matter whether you're in nose to tail traffic where the only gain from an overtake is about 6 feet. 

  

Just remember that the bicycle lanes were put there to protect the bicyclists from fast moving traffic. They will not be happy if come up at them at 50mph in their dedicated "slow" lane. Wind from trucks passing will also have a massive effect on an EUC, it certainly has a pretty big effect on cars and motorcycles. Then there's the debris that can gather at the side of the road - can you avoid things you only see at the last second at 50mph and not swerve into a passing vehicle? Finally there's cut outs - how much do you trust Chinese electronics knowing that if you get end up in the road and get hit by a vehicle then you're going to die (that top of the range helmet and leather suit is not made of kryptonite). Then there's your 50Kg wheel cartwheeling across the highway - if it hits someone then, at the very least, it's going to be costly. If it hits a motorcyclist or goes through a windscreen then it's quite likely to be fatal. Are you insured for that?

I've ridden motorbikes for 30+ years and I think just about every bike I've owned has broken down at some point. Usually I could just about fix them at the side of the road but sometimes I'd end up pushing them home. If an EUC breaks down at 50mph then you're just going to wake up in hospital (if you're lucky). I know I come across as a very conservative type but I promise you I'm not (I've actually spent the past week throwing myself off a mountain attached to a wing). If you're going to do dangerous sports then you have to have to fully understand the risks you're taking. Riding an EUC at 50mph in traffic is a very dangerous sport.

I understand where you're coming from but... My two cents being new to this. I'm 6'2" 240 and while I certainly could lose 30 pounds and be healthier (in fact I need to), I'm not what someone would describe as heavyset. A lot of American's are in the same boat. I went with the v10f for my first wheel and I'm already chomping at the bit for something bigger (I'm happy that I went with it, as my wife is already learning on it and she's 5'3" 120). Its not that it isn't a huge amount of fun, it is, but I can feel the limitations for my size already. You mentioned throwing yourself off a mountain, I fly a 30m kite in paramotor so that would be a tandem for lighter people lol. 

The points techyiam make, even though I think he is in Canada, are valid here in the states. There's a lot of area here that is drastically different than some of the congestion over there. Secondly we aren't regulated over here like you are over there so I think there's a different focus group (I believe you have to have a license for ppg over there). I've had multiple R1's and all sorts of fast bikes. My current bike is a MT09. There is zero reason to have a R1 on the road. ZERO, but yet they and similar bikes exist in plenty here. I think that's the same philosophy right or wrong.

The Challenger (I automatically think of the shuttle...) isn't even half my weight so I'm thinking it's perfect for me. That said, I am new! So what do I know haha.

[Greg X]

 3000wh is quite small battery for 4500w motor and super heavy weight. 

Exn has 2600w motor and battery 2700wh lasts only for 110km. And this is much lighter wheel.

 

so v13 will be first Euc with huge dimmensions, weight 50kg and maximum range... 80km (or less)? But who wants to pay almost 5000 for such gadget?

Edited August 14, 2022 by Greg X

[Freeforester]

1 hour ago, Yamanator said:

I understand where you're coming from but... My two cents being new to this. I'm 6'2" 240 and while I certainly could lose 30 pounds and be healthier (in fact I need to), I'm not what someone would describe as heavyset. A lot of American's are in the same boat. I went with the v10f for my first wheel and I'm already chomping at the bit for something bigger (I'm happy that I went with it, as my wife is already learning on it and she's 5'3" 120). Its not that it isn't a huge amount of fun, it is, but I can feel the limitations for my size already. You mentioned throwing yourself off a mountain, I fly a 30m kite in paramotor so that would be a tandem for lighter people lol. 

The points techyiam make, even though I think he is in Canada, are valid here in the states. There's a lot of area here that is drastically different than some of the congestion over there. Secondly we aren't regulated over here like you are over there so I think there's a different focus group (I believe you have to have a license for ppg over there). I've had multiple R1's and all sorts of fast bikes. My current bike is a MT09. There is zero reason to have a R1 on the road. ZERO, but yet they and similar bikes exist in plenty here. I think that's the same philosophy right or wrong.

The Challenger (I automatically think of the shuttle...) isn't even half my weight so I'm thinking it's perfect for me. That said, I am new! So what do I know haha.

 

I can assure you that no licence is required for paramotor flying in the U.K., believe it or otherwise. But like in the States, we are subject to Air Law.

[HEC]

1 hour ago, Greg X said:

 3000wh is quite small battery for 4500w motor and super heavy weight.

Having more powerful motor doesn't mean that the wheel will run on its max sustained power all the time. The consumption would be more or less same compared  to another wheel with "weaker" motor of similar weight and ridden under the same conditions. In another words, the higher weight will indeed contribute to (slightly) less range, but not the higher rated motor power. It can even be more effective if used at its optimal speed / torque. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by HEC

[Yamanator]

1 hour ago, Freeforester said:

 

I can assure you that no licence is required for paramotor flying in the U.K., believe it or otherwise. But like in the States, we are subject to Air Law.

Ahh you're right, it's Ireland that requires one. 

[wstuart]

3 hours ago, Yamanator said:

I understand where you're coming from but... My two cents being new to this. I'm 6'2" 240 and while I certainly could lose 30 pounds and be healthier (in fact I need to), I'm not what someone would describe as heavyset. A lot of American's are in the same boat. I went with the v10f for my first wheel and I'm already chomping at the bit for something bigger (I'm happy that I went with it, as my wife is already learning on it and she's 5'3" 120). Its not that it isn't a huge amount of fun, it is, but I can feel the limitations for my size already. You mentioned throwing yourself off a mountain, I fly a 30m kite in paramotor so that would be a tandem for lighter people lol. 

The Challenger (I automatically think of the shuttle...) isn't even half my weight so I'm thinking it's perfect for me. That said, I am new! So what do I know haha.

Ah cool! I'm glad thar v10f is working for your wife.  

I agree with your point.  I'm 6'8" 240 and I cruise at 20-25mph (30-40kph) in bike lanes only and my rides are usually under 30 miles.  So why do I prefer to ride my Sherman Max and Begode EX?  No for speed, and not for the range, but for the headroom and peace of mind.

On my Sherman or Ex, when I'm at 50% battery and I'm doing 24mph up a bumpy hill and a massive gust of wind comes up, I'm not worried at all.  On my v11 and 16x,  I back off and take it down to 17mph till the road flattens out or the wind subsides - out of an abundance of caution.  

Im considering getting a v13 or Master so I can have that same piece of mind at a slightly higher speed and slightly longer distance. (But I'm still not even sure that I want to do that kind of riding).  Also, at 6'8" it's super hard/impossible for me to sit on my Sherman. I kind of want a huge wheel so I can finally do seated riding.

On group rides, I get jealous when I watch smaller guys rip around seated on their Commanders at 35 mph for like 60 miles and still have battery to spare.  For someone my size, that can only happen on one of these new monster wheels. 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by wstuart

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, wstuart said:

I'm 6'8" 240

Jeepers. You not only need V13 or Master Pro, it's a must. This is one of a very few activities where size is not an advantage.

[wstuart]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

Jeepers. You not only need V13 or Master Pro, it's a must. This is one of a very few activities where size is not an advantage.

...yeah, EUCs, anything in motorsports, and riding on commercial aircraft....

 

I remeber hoping on a monster pro at a group ride.  It was awesome - fit like a glove.  Everyone started laughing though because they said I made it look like an RS

[Yamanator]

3 hours ago, wstuart said:

Ah cool! I'm glad thar v10f is working for your wife.  

I agree with your point.  I'm 6'8" 240 and I cruise at 20-25mph (30-40kph) in bike lanes only and my rides are usually under 30 miles.  So why do I prefer to ride my Sherman Max and Begode EX?  No for speed, and not for the range, but for the headroom and peace of mind.

On my Sherman or Ex, when I'm at 50% battery and I'm doing 24mph up a bumpy hill and a massive gust of wind comes up, I'm not worried at all.  On my v11 and 16x,  I back off and take it down to 17mph till the road flattens out or the wind subsides - out of an abundance of caution.  

Im considering getting a v13 or Master so I can have that same piece of mind at a slightly higher speed and slightly longer distance. (But I'm still not even sure that I want to do that kind of riding).  Also, at 6'8" it's super hard/impossible for me to sit on my Sherman. I kind of want a huge wheel so I can finally do seated riding.

On group rides, I get jealous when I watch smaller guys rip around seated on their Commanders at 35 mph for like 60 miles and still have battery to spare.  For someone my size, that can only happen on one of these new monster wheels. 

 

I hit a manhole cover that was depressed probably 3 inches in the road today. I didn't see it due to a distraction and being in the shade of a tree. I was most worried about bending the rim (didn't fortunately). But yes exactly as you describe if a truck goes by me it gets sketchy. You're 6 inches taller than me, I can't even imagine!

I just need to decide what to order. I'm not really in a rush. I'm putting up a video in my original thread. She practiced today again but is hesitant to let go of my hand even though she's not putting any weight on it now. I might have to just let go but I don't want her to get discouraged. Tis the way of things.

[Unventor]

8 hours ago, Greg X said:

v13 looked nice at first, i appreciate that IM finally try euc 22". But.......

 

.....Begode presented something better. Master Pro 22" 4800wh. They planned this long ago, i heared about Master 4800wh around march/april.  

1800wh battery more (!), similiar weight, better suspension system, and all this for cheaper price 

That is a bold statement. Better suspension? 

To make such a statement and it to hold value we would need some sort of unbiased review. 

What look good on paper might not work as well in real life situations. 

I  still don't understand why you bother to write in an Inmotion thread since you only want to promote GW wheels.  

[onizukagto]

8 hours ago, Greg X said:

v13 looked nice at first, i appreciate that IM finally try euc 22". But.......

 

.....Begode presented something better. Master Pro 22" 4800wh. They planned this long ago, i heared about Master 4800wh around march/april.  

1800wh battery more (!), similiar weight, better suspension system, and all this for cheaper price 

Begode rider:

V13 is too expensive! It's too heavy! Suspension has too mAny parts! 

*New Begode comes out :

Weighs more, has the same price,  has a dubious suspension and same master build "quality".... *

Gotway rider: "WHAT?!  IT GOES XXMPH?!  SOLD!" 

I think you're in the wrong forum, if speed is all you wanted, just say it and leave. Don't need to give us a dance a show. 

[That Guy]

I know I may be in a wrong forum here, too, sorry.

It was pointed earlier in this thread, V13 came out as a "show case of what InMotion can do". And then, of course Begode quickly showed "who was the daddy". And I am sitting here with hard earned thousands of dollars, a naïve customer who was made excited about those speeds, and batteries, and safety and whatever else... But it was never about me, the buyer - it just was the "whose is bigger". I feel betrayed...

And it would be fine by itself for "show case" R&D, but what is really disappointing with their wrong focus is that there is no new product by any of the manufacturers, which will be developed and improved with all the feedback provided into something truly great. They will never take their best-seller V10f and tweak into a 25kg suspension best-seller. Kingsong will never take their great 16X and make it a 30kg suspension great or even just simply chuck on it an LCD, IP rating and better safety. And yeah, the great idea of Begode Master is also already at its best now and I have no hope that they will make a better machine out of it than the batch 2 - Begode have already moved on to new models after some very basic improvements of batch 1. And that excuse - "it's easier to design a new wheel than improve the existing designs" - no, it is actually not. It is just that they are not trying to please me, the naïve customer - instead their competition is among themselves...

I know people will buy V13 and it should exist to define the edge of the technology and it's perfectly fine. I myself need a 30-35kg (absolute max 40kg) machine, robust, reliable and safe and probably will have to end up with Sherman...

Edited August 15, 2022 by That Guy

[Rawnei]

21 minutes ago, That Guy said:

And I am sitting here with hard earned thousands of dollars, a naïve customer who was made excited about those speeds, and batteries, and safety and whatever else...

My suggestion is that you hold on to those hard earned dollars until the wheels you are interested in has been out in production for a while and you know what is what, don't risk them by pre-ordering anything.

[Tawpie]

49 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

don't risk them by pre-ordering anything.

too late for me.

But I do have to say… it would be a welcome surprise if IM were to update the look and guts of something like the V10F, or a refresh of the V11 with a more capable suspension (just don't name it Columbia, please). Neither the V12 or the V13 offer me anything I can use, 'over investment' is a good term. $2k is a chunk of change but it's workable. When we're at $4.5k and might should think about getting a trailer to haul it around—a lot of the shine comes off.

[mike_bike_kite]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

OK, basically learner's wheels.

EUCs work best in an urban environment. In that environment, people want a wheel that will get them to their destination, allow them to walk in through the front door without getting challenged and perhaps store the wheel discreetly under a table. They are wheels for a purpose, not learner wheels.

17 hours ago, techyiam said:

I do think wheels like the V13 and Master Pro have more of a complete package to function as a "portable " motorcycle, or one wheel motorcycle.

A 50Kg wheel is not portable. You can't take it inside a public building and you can't lock it up outside. You're just left riding from your garage, doing a big loop in the local area and then going straight back into your garage.

17 hours ago, techyiam said:

The other thing is you are in London, where the police enforces the "euc's are illegal "law. And you ride in traffic. How do you manage that?

I tend to ride "sensibly" and that tends not to attract attention from the police. I don't ride on the pavement, I obey all the lights and give way to pedestrians on crossings. I also don't have music blaring out from my wheel. Obviously I might still meet a policeman on a bad day.

17 hours ago, techyiam said:

Interesting, I have ridden for 30+ years. But I have never have a motorcycle breaking down on me. The CBR125R, NINJA 300, or Bandit have been bullet proof. Just mostly change engine oil and lube chain frequently. I haven't even had a flat tire. Mind you I do keep my bikes in great tune.  Are you riding Ducati's?

Commuting through dense London traffic is completely different to going for an occasional cruise down an empty Canadian highway. I'll admit the views are far better in Canada and I really enjoyed riding down the Icefields pathway but I still had a breakdown there when camping in the rainforests on Vancouver Island - water in the electrics! Riding bikes everyday in dense London traffic means the bikes do suffer. I'd usually get hit once every 2 years and most of my bikes were written off within 4-5 years. Punctures were a regular occurrence - my current bike has 5 puncture repairs in it's rear tyre. I rode all sorts of bikes but I've never owned a Ducati as they're just too fragile for me.

 

PS I'm happy to answer any other questions you might have by PM but I suspect we're derailing this thread.

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

too late for me.

I sorry to say that it appears to be an informed decision when you chose to turn your preorder into a purchase on your S22. You knew about all the good and bad going in. At that pointi, it wasn't even risks anymore. For the most parts, you already knew how it would unfold.

Having said that, for your use case, it's slim picking. Mind you, Inmotion did reach out to the euc community for feedback as to whether they should build a new smaller, lighter wheel.

4 hours ago, Tawpie said:

When we're at $4.5k and might should think about getting a trailer to haul it around—a lot of the shine comes off.

I am extrapolating a bit here. A trailer? Maybe, maybe not. I did handle the Abrams a bit. It was really heavy, but I still think I would be able to find an acceptable way to get it into the front seat area of my car.

I found it heavy to lift my V12 into the back of an SUV by myself. However, I managed to find a way to get my leg to do the heavy lifting. And now I am fine.

OK, 110 lbs is a whole another level of weight. Perhaps, the most likely scenario would be to somehow use my leg to leverage it up into the front seat area.

 

[Cerbera]

37 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I tend to ride "sensibly" and that tends not to attract attention from the police. I don't ride on the pavement, I obey all the lights and give way to pedestrians on crossings. I also don't have music blaring out from my wheel. Obviously I might still meet a policeman on a bad day.

I find this thinking very interesting, a bit 'risky biscuits', and rather different from my own, which is not a criticism in itself ! As I understood it, it was the 'being on the road' that was the main problem the police had with it, and the primary factor involved in all those scooters and other PEVs in London being confiscated and burned ! I actually go to great pains to make sure police don't see me on any road, and ONLY on the pavement, where they will see I am politely deferring to the few pedestrians I meet, and therefore shouldn't be a problem they feel a pressing need to do anything about !

Now, that strategy has worked for me for nearly 8 years in my mid-size town, but of course the pavements here are nothing like as populated as they are in London, so perhaps your strategy there is preferable...

 

[Robse]

7 minutes ago, techyiam said:

OK, 110 lbs is a whole another level of weight. Perhaps, the most likely scenario would be to somehow use my leg to leverage it up into the front seat area.

 

....

[techyiam]

45 minutes ago, Robse said:

....

Actually, a shorter version could work. The ramp would be angled steeper, but since the wheel can go up on its own power, it is of no consequence. A shorter ramp would fit in the back of an SUV better.

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

52 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

I find this thinking very interesting, a bit 'risky biscuits', and rather different from my own, which is not a criticism in itself ! As I understood it, it was the 'being on the road' that was the main problem the police had with it, and the primary factor involved in all those scooters and other PEVs in London being confiscated and burned ! I actually go to great pains to make sure police don't see me on any road, and ONLY on the pavement, where they will see I am politely deferring to the few pedestrians I meet, and therefore shouldn't be a problem they feel a pressing need to do anything about !

Now, that strategy has worked for me for nearly 8 years in my mid-size town, but of course the pavements here are nothing like as populated as they are in London, so perhaps your strategy there is preferable...

 

Are electric bikes allowed on the road or regular bicycles ? A wheel is no different than an electric bike and I’d argue that to the court .when I see police in my town on my wheel I usually pass them a couple times to make sure they seen me and with ever increasing speed and just wave ….I haven’t had any problems yet 🤣