Inmotion V13 Speculation

[mhpr262]

18 hours ago, techyiam said:

 

It is interesting that Inmotion decided to further develop their V11 suspension design, unlike Kingsong. Kingsong went with a completely different design for their S22. 

Its no surprise to me at all. IIRC I actually predicted this in a post I made last year or so, when first hints of the V13 started appearing. It is just the perfect solution for an EUC - mechanically simple, lightweight, robust, well protected from impact damage and dirt, easily adjustable to rider weight by reducing or increasing air pressure. The slightly increased amount of stiction from the seals is of negligible importance for an EUC where you stand on your feet with bent knees all the time. And from what I have read the S22 has even more stiction and is even less smooth than the V11, despite the steel-coil-plus-oil-damping shock absorber.

I predict other EUC manufacturers will quietly start adopting that suspension system over time untill all the levers-plus-external-shock-systems have died out.

[eucVibes]

I narrated the V13 video, check it out if you love my silky awkward voice 😂

 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, mhpr262 said:

I predict other EUC manufacturers will quietly start adopting that suspension system over time untill all the levers-plus-external-shock-systems have died out.

In the V13 debut video, the Inmotion CEO said that the V13 is a heavy crusier, a Cadillac. He stressed comfort cruising. In that design context, the V13 suspension design could work well. Other than the air shock, it is practically an unsealed, linear suspension design. However, for offroad use, a sealed, progressive suspension designs may prove better.

I don't expect Begode to move away from their slider design. That is a low stiction, sealed design. They just need to further refine it. However, they do need to sort out their rising rate links.

On the other hand, Kingsong appears to have gotten the rising rate links right, but completely screwed up on the sliders. Hard to predict what Kingsong will do next.

Edited August 12, 2022 by techyiam

[DjPanJan]

For me is 50Kg gas scooter weight if i can tolerate this for my long cruises but 3000wh is just imposible make long ride for me becasue with sherman i have 100Km range V13 just failing with range(expect 75-80km) in my eyes why they not offer V13F with 4000Wh+ and 54Kg this is just pure madness and not logical dimensions.

Remake V13 to 18inch veteran sherman killer with all fantastic features what inmotion do in V13 and weight naturaly fall to 35-42Kg with decent battery.

In 3kwh state i never preorder V13  i need see many videos how range realy is how inclining performance be (beter or same like MASTER) and if is possible handle this weight to inclines or trail (im sceptic).

I have soo mixed feelings in one look V13 have EVERYTHING what i want on EUC but on second look is NO GO i feel so schyzophrenic about V13 like never before.

 

For context my sherman is speedlocked/titback 46km/h and my average speed is 25km/h = 95/100 km range. 

 

I'm in no rush, I want to buy a new EUC before spring 2023, and by then there will hopefully be enough information and videos on how to make a best decision.

[HEC]

8 hours ago, Robse said:

Nice model.

That's an optional accessory... 👀

[Nick McCutcheon]

20 hours ago, techyiam said:

If you were on level ground, you must have leaned pretty hard forward to get to 90 km/h.  How bad was the wind blast at 90 km/h? Did you feel ithe Master was stable enough?

How would you rate the stability of the Master to the Sherman at 80 km/h? 

I usually sit down when riding above 51mph/82kmh due to the wind, I could lean forward but it puts more stress on the power pads and if I hit a bump all that torque goes into the pads and draws a lot of power, which I don't like.

It's definitely stable enough. The Sherman may be a bit more stable due to the lower pedals, but its firmware is more unoptimized so I have to make sure not to put all my weight on the seat or it will oscillate. No such issue on the Master.

20 hours ago, Funky said:

Bro even cars can't ride that fast in city.  (At least where i'm from, it's 50km/h speed limit in cities.) Where are you riding? On highway?  

Luckily i don't need anything faster than 50km/h wheel. If only they would make them lighter now.. 

I wish I could go on the highway, but that's too dangerous even for me and not legally acceptable. It's important to keep in mind all these figures I've mentioned are wheel speeds, GPS speed is going to be about 90% of what the wheel says usually. 90kmh*0.9=81kmh=50.3mph, this is the speed most cars go on city roads with a 45mph speed limit. I usually keep pace with cars on my Master, but I often wish I had the speed to keep up on busier main roads with several lanes. The V13 could provide that if they up the speed limit to 100kmh (55.9mph GPS max speed). 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

this is the speed most cars go on city roads with a 45mph speed limit. I usually keep pace with cars on my Master, but I often wish I had the speed to keep up on busier main roads with several lanes. The V13 could provide that if they up the speed limit to 100kmh (55.9mph GPS max speed). 

Thank you for your reply. Really appreciate your sharing of your experience. 

It sounds like you are actually riding in car lanes with cars in front and behind you. If you are sitting, how are you managing braking?

[mhpr262]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

 Other than the air shock, it is practically an unsealed, linear suspension design.

AFAIK one of the biggest problem with air shocks is that they are, all by themselves, without any levers or links, already much more progressive than the designers want them to be in most use cases. 

[Nick McCutcheon]

44 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Thank you for your reply. Really appreciate your sharing of your experience. 

It sounds like you are actually riding in car lanes with cars in front and behind you. If you are sitting, how are you managing braking?

Lately, I have been riding with cars just because the bike lanes here start and stop and they can get a bit thin, I always end up having to get in a lane anyways so if I know I can keep up with traffic I'll just pretend to be a motorcycle. Countless cops have seen me, I've even been next to some at intersections, but they don't seem to have any issues with me as I'm riding just as a responsible motorcycle rider would. I used to have a personal rule to stay in bike lanes, but as long as I'm maintaining a positive brand image for EUC by riding safely, signaling, and all that fun traffic safety stuff, I don't see an issue as much any more.

I'll actually stand up for braking a lot of the time, since it's usually when an intersection comes up and I'll need to plant my foot anyways, plus standing up gives me an air braking effect. For emergency braking, I sit in such a way that I can stand up quickly if need be. Sometimes I'll just shift my rear end backwards on the seat, sometimes off the seat, and pull on the headlight module with my hand for stronger seated braking. 

[techyiam]

42 minutes ago, mhpr262 said:

AFAIK one of the biggest problem with air shocks is that they are, all by themselves, without any levers or links, already much more progressive than the designers want them to be in most use cases. 

If we look at the Master, many owners are complaining about the ease of bottoming with the stock shock. The suspension links apparently don’t have rising rate geometry. What is your take on that? 

[mhpr262]

15 minutes ago, techyiam said:

 What is your take on that? 

My guess is the suspension travel is limited by the geometry of the links or the length of the sliders, not by the compression of the shock. The suspension travel is too short and/or the volume of the air shock is too large for sufficient progression to come into effect. If the suspension allowed the shock to be compressed down to "zero" it could never bottom out because it is impossible to compress the internal volume of air to nothing. The obvious solution is a smaller volume shock, with more pressure.

Edited August 12, 2022 by mhpr262

[HEC]

1 hour ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

plus standing up gives me an air braking effect.

And even more importantly - better visibility - both being able to see and being seen by others.

[mrelwood]

 

5 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

I wish I could go on the highway, but that's too dangerous even for me and not legally acceptable.

I wonder if it's truly legally less acceptable than riding an EUC on 45mph road.

 

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

If we look at the Master, many owners are complaining about the ease of bottoming with the stock shock. The suspension links apparently don’t have rising rate geometry. What is your take on that? 

 

2 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

My guess is the suspension travel is limited by the geometry of the links or the length of the sliders, not by the compression of the shock.

Yup. I discussed the S22 and Master suspensions with a guy who has worked extensively with both, including designing new links. He said that the stock Master only uses something like a third of the shock's travel.

I think he also said that a standard air shock on a S22 also only uses like 60% of the travel.

There are air volume suppressors that you can put inside an air shock to  alleviate this exact issue.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Yup. I discussed the S22 and Master suspensions with a guy who has worked extensively with both, including designing new links. He said that the stock Master only uses something like a third of the shock's travel.

I think he also said that a standard air shock on a S22 also only uses like 60% of the travel.

There are air volume suppressors that you can put inside an air shock to  alleviate this exact issue.

That explains a lot for bottoming. Volume reducers would be the correct course of action for the time being until proper links are designed.

[UtahRider]

Well, I just did what I swore last week I’d never do again and preordered the V13. I really hate going back on my word but the V13 just looks too good to me to pass up! Anyone else pull the trigger yet?

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

4 minutes ago, UtahRider said:

Well, I just did what I swore last week I’d never do again and preordered the V13. I really hate going back on my word but the V13 just looks too good to me to pass up! Anyone else pull the trigger yet?

Yeah I’m gunna pull the trigger too .I’ve just put on 3100km in 2.5 months on my first wheel and I already want another one .YOLO 🤷🏻‍♂️

you still keep your order for the master ?

Edited August 13, 2022 by Dosingpsychedelics

[Lesleigh Gonzales]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:01 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

Does anybody know an official website/official pictures/official anything (other than the video)? This video had surprisingly little new information other than confirming the looks and suspension, and giving the price and weight.

When can you buy it?

NELTREK EVOLUTION will be having preorders available and some pretty neat deals going for our riders. Let me know if you have any questions. 

 

https://www.neltrekevolution.com/products/INMOTION-V13-CHALLENGER-Electric-Unicycle-Preorder-Newest-release-p483384570 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Lesleigh Gonzales
clarification

[UtahRider]

1 hour ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

Yeah I’m gunna pull the trigger too .I’ve just put on 3100km in 2.5 months on my first wheel and I already want another one .YOLO 🤷🏻‍♂️

you still keep your order for the master ?

Yes, expecting the Master end of month, I don’t expect the V13 in 2022. I’ll sell my beloved EX and 16x and keep the V8, RST, Master and V13.

[RamonatheCat]

I changed my master preorder to v13 but expecting a long wait and then also to wait when it arrives to not ride it for a bit and see if anyone is experiencing cut outs...

[meepmeepmayer]

4 hours ago, UtahRider said:

Well, I just did what I swore last week I’d never do again and preordered the V13. I really hate going back on my word but the V13 just looks too good to me to pass up! Anyone else pull the trigger yet?

Honestly, the $4000 early bird price is high, but acceptable if you compare to the prices of the 3600Wh cruiser competitors. It's just that $4600 price that is brazenly too much, but luckily you escape that. So why not! It certainly looks to be a very nice wheel.

[yoos]

ecodrift opened V13 preorder at 235 000₽~3780$ (or 210 000₽~3370 without warranty). Expected delivery is December-January. For comparison, they also offer the S18v2  (v2 means new hollow motor) at 145000₽~2330$ (standard battery, with warranty) or 155000₽~2490$ (Molicel, with warranty); Sherman Max at 190000₽~3050$ (no warranty!); Master P42A at 205000₽~3290$ (with warranty); T4 at 145000₽~2330$ (with warranty).

[Paul g]

15 minutes ago, yoos said:

For comparison, they also offer the S18v2  (v2 means new hollow motor) at 145000₽~2330$ (standard battery, with warranty) or 155000₽~2490$ (Molicel, with warranty);

The Molicel was the no brainer, but why the hell they keep making the standard battery when they had so many cutouts because of small battery output? 

[yoos]

20 minutes ago, Paul g said:

why the hell they keep making the standard battery

There are lighter/lower/calmer riders who are absolutely fine with the original battery. Why would they pay more for the headroom they don't need while also losing range? Note that the S18 is still the lightest suspension wheel. I am certain there are plenty riders who are fine with the performance of a 16S, V8S, V10F and just want to add suspension. These people naturally choose the S18 as it's the lightest and cheapest suspension EUC which still outperforms the lesser wheels.

Edited August 13, 2022 by yoos

[DrBytes]

23 hours ago, DavidB said:

Or you could get a V13.

--> I think they are just trying to see what they can squeeze out of people. "Let us see what these fools will pay, if not we can drop the price afterwards".

4600 dollars bought me 36kWh LifePo4 cells. That's 36000Wh.

Value for money isn't there, I mean, this is just a scooter rim of dubious quality mounted to a puny battery pack with a motor.

[techyiam]

On 8/13/2022 at 1:55 AM, DrBytes said:

I think they are just trying to see what they can squeeze out of people. "Let us see what these fools will pay, if not we can drop the price afterwards".

Begode Hero was the first of Begode's next generation, suspended metal chassis euc. The online euc community balked at the initial release price. Begode did lowered the price at a later date. But this newly priced Hero is not the same Hero. For example, some people spotted that the shock was downgraded to an unbranded shock, and is of poorer quality. Comparing the BOM's would be telling. You have not provided facts to support your conclusion. 

Also historically, just looked at last two Inmotion new wheel releases, the V11 and the V12, Inmotion had priced them competitively. The wheels that you may be able to point fingers at may be are the Commander and the Sherman Max. These may have large battery capacities, but they still have the Gotway DNA. Yet the Sherman Max sell well, even in this competitive market.

And lastly, compare the V13 to other PEV's. Which other pev has a 4500W continuous / 10000W peak  motor and 3kW battery for $4000.

 

On 8/13/2022 at 1:55 AM, DrBytes said:

4600 dollars bought me 36kWh LifePo4 cells.

Well, can you ride 36 kWh of cells. And don't forget the CPSC; euc's battery packs are now on their radar. Euc manufacturers won't be able to get away with just selling bunch of cells anymore. The battery packs have to be safe. What would help in the US is for the US government to remove the 25% tariff. 

Edited November 19, 2022 by techyiam