Inmotion V13 Speculation

[That Guy]

I have to say, although I am quite impressed with the V13, its weight is a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't mind a higher price, like even if it was towards $6k provided it would be an amazing product. But boy, 50kg!... It's kinda defeating the purpose of having an EUC in my user case of long semi-urban commute, sadly...

[techyiam]

On 7/27/2022 at 5:10 AM, techyiam said:

The latter seems plausible because at the bottom of the sliders are two knobs. Perhaps one is a valve for adding or removing air in the air spring, and the other is for rebound damping adjustments?

 

On 7/27/2022 at 11:02 AM, mrelwood said:

A rebound adjustment next to a thin shock tube doesn't make much sense though. Having a remote adjustment like that would be rather challenging to manufacture, and prone to failures even from a small kiss from a rock. Since the adjustment is often fixed at the other end of the tube, why not put it there? It would be easier to adjust as well.

Besides, neither of the circles at the bottom are at the center of the possible vertical air shock, which would make even the main valve a bit of a nightmare to manufacture.

My guess is that they are related to a pedal height adjustment.

It is interesting that Inmotion decided to further develop their V11 suspension design when they jumped from one generation to the next, unlike Kingsong. Kingsong went with a completely different design when they moved from the S18 to the S22. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by techyiam

[HEC]

28 minutes ago, techyiam said:

With a 90 km/h top speed, and a 140 km/h free-spin speed, that's a 50 km/h safety margin.

I wonder if 110 lbs is enough to help fight the crosswinds or turbulence at the higher speeds? Maybe riders have to start thinking about aerodynamic aids, in addition to motorcycle grade or higher safety gear.

Time to install a snow plough... 🤣

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Now that the V13 has been released, can you comment now things that you couldn't before?

We discussed screws.  As always we suggested to use stainless steel screws and to be in as few different sizes as possible.  

But to have a non-magnetic screw means a much more complex assembly in production line.  But they took away the point to look into.  How this will form the end production is difficult to say.  

We discussed a 3 page suggestion and feedback list but at the time we didn't see a fully wheel.  

I think the interesting point here is the Challanger is the same wheel but can be modded to have suspension or not.  How this is done I don't  know.  

Now it seems the Challanger would weigh 50kg. That means for me is deal breaker.  There is no WAY I can handle (read life up into a car or on a table for service)  with my bad lower back.  It hard enough with my V11. 

But to me the weight and cost compared to a typical cruiseride or pleasure trip like this in Denmark would not be possible or as easy compared to my V11. 

https://euc.world/tour/612616485668181

I had the V11 with me in the car taking the ferry from Sweden. 

It was suggested it should have no stand or trolley,  but it seems they added a trolley after all. 

The major theme of several points we forwarded to Inmotion was easy service.  How much this got into this wheel I can't tell from the little I had time to look into the reveal today. 

I think some might like the Challanger but my biggest worry is they made something that appeal to a GW buyer yet it not in a GW style and due to this GW fans will never consider it anyway.  

I  think though a lot more after thoughts has gone into the Challanger that riders give Inmotion credit for.  But there are reasons for why they make some things one way and not in a different way that might seem simple or logical solutions.  

I can't share all minor details as I prefer Inmotion to have these points to thier development.  

I  do have very hight hope for a "low"  weight V11 successor but it might take a year or two or more.  Until them I have to do with what I have.  

[HEC]

Unless I missed that, I'd like to see some more info on durability (or lack of thereof) of axels and pedal hangers ... 😨

[Unventor]

11 minutes ago, That Guy said:

I have to say, although I am quite impressed with the V13, its weight is a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't mind a higher price, like even if it was towards $6k provided it would be an amazing product. But boy, 50kg!... It's kinda defeating the purpose of having an EUC in my user case of long semi-urban commute, sadly...

That weight is due to that top speed mainly. 

The motor alone is 10+kg compared to the V11. 

So the question is it worth it or is it something people asked for but never considered what it takes to do this "safely". 

But as I said above I  agree with you.  50kg is too much for me to handle.  When riding it might not be a problem.  

[meepmeepmayer]

6 minutes ago, HEC said:

Unless I missed that, I'd like to see some more info on durability (or lack of thereof) of axels and pedal hangers ... 😨

It's a hollow motor (no axle) and in the video he says it is very robust and can take vertical loads of 2700kg (think peak load after a jump). I would not be worried. As for the pedal hangers, have these ever been a problem for any EUC? No

Pretty sure this is a very robust EUC in every regard.

Link to that part in the video (timecoded at 10:32):

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, That Guy said:

I have to say, although I am quite impressed with the V13, its weight is a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't mind a higher price, like even if it was towards $6k provided it would be an amazing product. But boy, 50kg!... It's kinda defeating the purpose of having an EUC in my user case of long semi-urban commute, sadly...

I think the euc world may have to come to realize that they too have to a transition for high speed motoring, not unlike from ebikes to motorcycles, eventually. With motorcycles, they are simply too heavy to carry up stairs or bring it inside the home. So they are left outside. Of course if euc's make that transition, euc's will then lose the advantage of not having to find parking, and have to worry about theft. 

I think I am still OK, if trolleying works well. I just have to build a ramp for my 5 steps staircase. 

[onizukagto]

4 hours ago, redfoxdude said:

Back on

So my highlights from the V13. 

1. Software limited max speed to 90km/h. So about 50km/h before cutout. But Is it enough to cruise without hiccup? And for how many km can you cruise until you gotta throttle back? Real questions

2. Two ports. Charge time of 2.5hrs at 14A?I assume an average of 4hrs, but that's pretty impressive. 

3. Disassembly to customise suspension. Cool. 

4. Suspension travel looks great.

5. Suspension cruiser!!!! 

6. New type but also simplified suspension. 

Edit: it does look like the same design from the patent leaks. Guess if you're gonna file it, better use it. 

7. Removal of motor for tyee change looks much easier? 

8. Segmented pre-built sections of the shell mean easier replacement? 

9. Proper mud guards

10. Free power pads that are not pre-attached so your can ride naked like a savage or use your own pads. 

10. Lights inspired by V11, rear lights anyway. Dunno about front lights, adjustabilty/angle doesn't seem lightly and it's not multi-led like v12

11. Trolley handle has a new structurally design. Not curve like V11 but not like the V12. Interesting. 

12. Same reinforced tyre rim as V12 HT? 

13. Adjustable pedal height...

No mention of Electro-Magnetic lock? Or I might have missed that part. 

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by onizukagto
Move raving

[HEC]

7 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I think I am still OK, if trolleying works well. I just have to build a ramp for my 5 steps staircase. 

I'm already contemplating building a ramp for my V12-HT (noticeable jump in weight from V8) and I'd definitely build one for Challenger. 

[techyiam]

27 minutes ago, HEC said:

Unless I missed that, I'd like to see some more info on durability (or lack of thereof) of axels and pedal hangers ... 😨

In the video, they showed an exploded diagram. The hollow axle looked well designed and stout. I am not complaining about Begode 's hollow axles since they are strong and light, but the V13 looked better designed to me. The pedal hangers are adjustable. That adjustment design is borrowed from the V12. The design looks good too, IMO. These designs are strong and light but more costly because of the larger diameter; they have to use bigger bearings. 

If you have a trained eye, compare it to the S22's.

[techyiam]

On 8/11/2022 at 1:33 PM, HEC said:

Time to install a snow plough... 🤣

But on a serious note, riding standing up at 80 or 90 km/h can't be taken lightly, even on a wide, empty road. The wind force due to speed alone is intense. Dealing with additional crosswinds or turbulence is no picnic.

You just can't add dead weight because the wheel would be ponderous unnecessarily at slower speeds. What is needed is a higher moment of inertia. Using a heavy powerful motor and a large heavy tire is going in the right direction. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by techyiam

[onizukagto]

2 hours ago, redfoxdude said:

Honestly should just call the first batch "VIP QC PRICE" 

But with a $600 difference... I guess it shows how much patience you have. Separate the wee lads from the men. 

But If you can afford more that one wheel, i guess getting a first batch and a second production V13 is an option. 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

A lot of you will think I'm crazy, but I can already travel at 90km/h on my (newly P42A) Master. I've even hit 94km/h downhill. But, there is a real safety difference between the Master and V13 at these speeds. I upped by power alarm from 80% PWM/load to 85% PWM/load and I always hit it at these speeds, whereas the V13 could do it easily. I feel like it would be a waste of all the engineering IM put into this wheel only to cap it to well below what it's capable of. The high price of this wheel is tough for me to justify at this speed, but if they allow 100km/h, I'm getting it right away.

If you were on level ground, you must have leaned pretty hard forward to get to 90 km/h.  How bad was the wind blast at 90 km/h? Did you feel ithe Master was stable enough?

How would you rate the stability of the Master to the Sherman at 80 km/h? 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

A lot of you will think I'm crazy, but I can already travel at 90km/h on my (newly P42A) Master. I've even hit 94km/h downhill. But, there is a real safety difference between the Master and V13 at these speeds. I upped by power alarm from 80% PWM/load to 85% PWM/load and I always hit it at these speeds, whereas the V13 could do it easily. I feel like it would be a waste of all the engineering IM put into this wheel only to cap it to well below what it's capable of. The high price of this wheel is tough for me to justify at this speed, but if they allow 100km/h, I'm getting it right away.

Bro even cars can't ride that fast in city.  (At least where i'm from, it's 50km/h speed limit in cities.) Where are you riding? On highway?  

Luckily i don't need anything faster than 50km/h wheel. If only they would make them lighter now.. 

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

A lot of you will think I'm crazy, but I can already travel at 90km/h on my (newly P42A) Master. I've even hit 94km/h downhill. But, there is a real safety difference between the Master and V13 at these speeds. I upped by power alarm from 80% PWM/load to 85% PWM/load and I always hit it at these speeds, whereas the V13 could do it easily. I feel like it would be a waste of all the engineering IM put into this wheel only to cap it to well below what it's capable of. The high price of this wheel is tough for me to justify at this speed, but if they allow 100km/h, I'm getting it right away.

Same story all over once again.  People still ask for more speed and safety margin. I hear the KS16X record once more. 

Safety margin do not come with speed alone.  It is the surplus power output.  

And this is not a GW wheel. 

So what places can you ride an EUC legally at 100kmh.  And how do you this car drivers will react? Keep a long enough distance in case one should crash for whatever reason? 

[Tawpie]

Not every rider is aware that an electronics failure (or glitch) will put them on the road... figure the odds the driver of an automobile will know that, or even if they did—how much stopping distance will they allow? They have anti-lock brakes, right?

[techyiam]

12 hours ago, Funky said:

even cars can't ride that fast in city.  (At least where i'm from, it's 50km/h speed limit in cities.) Where are you riding? On highway?

Sorry, I know you not are addressing to me, but on this side of the pond, such roads exist.

I can also ride at 90 km/h. I live fairly close to a short highway. The speed limit is 80 km/h. But many cars go faster. There is a bicycle lane on the side. The great thing is that the bicycle lane is empty most of the time. There are no pedestrian traffic nor intersections. Even if I crash, it will only be a single vehicle accident. And I would just slide. There is nothing to hit.

Edited August 12, 2022 by techyiam

[Cranium]

Some information I received from eWheels:

A couple additional details that have been shared:
1) Production expected to complete in CN by Nov, possibly Christmas arrival
2) Although the suspension looks similar to the V11, IM says they've improved it
3) They'll be evaluating a street tire option as well, a proportion of them will be fitted out from the factory
4) There will be a seat option, priced at around $65

6) Chargers are expensive, IM has them for like $450 for a 7A, will evaluate other options with our preferred supplier

I have to assume there was a #5 that was deleted from some reason.  I guess time will reveal what that was.    The delays with the S20/S22 led up to this point and my money is now on the Challenger.   I received my email for final payment of the S22 a couple days ago and have released this to be purchased by someone else in line for it. 

I'm on board with the challenger because of the improved rider safety which should translate into better reliability.  They are now taking control of all aspects of the EUC with the batteries and BMS and we can finally have all electrical systems communicating with each other.  I wonder if they have utilized CAN bus protocol?   The only thing missing in their design for even better reliability would be redundant main boards.  This would still be a single point of failure in the electrical system.

[HEC]

49 minutes ago, techyiam said:

But on a serious note, riding standing up at 80 or 90 km/h can't be taken lightly, even on a wide, empty road. The wind force due to speed alone is intense. Dealing with additional crosswinds or turbulence is no picnic.

I wonder how riding seated would affect that?

[meepmeepmayer]

27 minutes ago, Cranium said:

1) Production expected to complete in CN by Nov, possibly Christmas arrival

Wow, early 2023 at best? I thought this was weeks from shipping out test wheels or something!

27 minutes ago, Cranium said:

6) Chargers are expensive, IM has them for like $450 for a 7A, will evaluate other options with our preferred supplier

I sure hope IM doesn't pay these ridiculous prices to their supplier. Otherwise that might explain the V13 price.

Edited August 11, 2022 by meepmeepmayer

[That Guy]

13 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wow, early 2023 at best? I thought this was weeks from shipping out test wheels or something!

I guess it sort of makes sense. They are planning to send the test wheels to multiple testers by the end of August. Take a month for delivery (at best), then a month for testing and then a month for homework on any issues. Provided there are no muck-ups and the original design stays largely unchanged November sounds the best case for the start of mass-production... 

[wstuart]

Did they say when these would be shipping??

[Tawpie]

10 minutes ago, wstuart said:

Did they say when these would be shipping??

I didn't hear InMotion set a date

[Heyzeus]

Okay, at 100+ lbs, this wheel and other heavy Wheels like it need something called stair trolley mode.

 

In stair trolley mode, rather than the wheel holding itself completely upright it tilts itself forward at say a 45° angle (or whatever angle is best, think like the angle you see when someone is pulling rolling luggage behind them) to allow you to pull the wheel up stairs and it limits the speed that the wheel can spin to say 1 mph.

 

With the weight of the wheel and with it being tilted forward slightly then as you pull it up the tire shouldn't slip, and if the tire does slip with the limit on the speed the wheel shouldn't free spin up to a ridiculous speed and cause problems

If this already exists, then consider me out of the loop

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Heyzeus