Tawpie Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, nosamplesplease said: But that battery itself should not be handled by the end user, ever. I wouldn't go that far... it is possible to safely handle a battery, but you do need to observe precautions. If that clear stuff they wrapped everything up in is the same stuff they use for retail blister packs, the cells and BMS are pretty safe from me. It is comforting to see more battery protection in a wheel that's intended to be used off road and will get bashed around pretty badly. I hope it's sufficient, will tell. Edited January 25, 2022 by Tawpie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fbhb Posted January 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, nosamplesplease said: But that battery itself should not be handled by the end user, ever. I personally am very confident in saying that the "end user" WILL NOT be expected to install the batteries as shown in the "Battery Install" video I posted previously (Not that it looks in any way like a daunting task to my eyes!). I believe the original video was uploaded/posted by a distributor that would have had this video sent out by King Song, along with All other distributors/influencers currently expecting "pre-production" S20's in the next week or so! This initial small batch of Newly released pre-production wheels from King Song will most likely have been sent via Air and therefore unable to have the batteries installed during Air shipping! This has been a fairly common practice in recent years, with the same thing being the case when the first offerings of the Abrams for example shipped to the likes of eevee's & e-rides etc. just before Christmas. Us mere mortals WILL no doubt have the very Long, Long wait for our S20's to arrive via sea in the coming months, however I'm confident it WILL be with the battery packs pre-installed! Edited January 25, 2022 by fbhb 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosamplesplease Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 26 minutes ago, Tawpie said: I wouldn't go that far... it is possible to safely handle a battery, but you do need to observe precautions. If that clear stuff they wrapped everything up in is the same stuff they use for retail blister packs, the cells and BMS are pretty safe from me. It is comforting to see more battery protection in a wheel that's intended to be used off road and will get bashed around pretty badly. I hope it's sufficient, will tell. True that was a bit absolute of me. Everyone's capacity for care is different. I like to think of dangerous things as needing to idiot-proof. Most people will do fine, but one is them is always going to get it wrong enough to break it. Things that burn when broken...fires that are almost impossible to put out... Sadly I want to say, as delivered, installing batteries in Gotway wheels is less dangerous to the user. Just wish the batteries themselves were safer in use. My issue is needing to slide the battery past a thin metal edge isn't great when the battery is only protected by a flexible piece of plastic. I see scraping. Especially if the thing you are sliding in deflects towards the side you can't see. The plastic case on the batteries from a v11 or V12 are, while not intended to be user serviced, are less likely to be mishandled. Ideally I would like to see an ABS shell with a nonNewtonian layer between the actual cells and this ABS shell. Woah God, would that be expensive comparatively. I expect to never see this and don't demand it as an end user. But short of that I wouldn't be praising anyone for battery safety. As much as I HATE ebikes, they are doing batteries that end users can handle better. At the end of the day none of what I prattle on about matters. I expect every wheel that isn't airshipped would have these installed by the dealer. For just this reason. The service model extant with EUCs tells me end users will be doing this with wheels that need repair. This is my concern. End users with no recourse other than DIY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Grimm10 Posted January 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 25, 2022 I gotta say that the recent problems with the V12 has made several potential buyers VERY LEERY about buying a newly released model euc. I'm reserved to the fact that KingSong has done their due diligence in testing/building the S20 to a high standard and that the first batch won't suffer any major defect or subpar performance issue. Just a couple more months to go! 😊 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourUC Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, nosamplesplease said: True that was a bit absolute of me. Everyone's capacity for care is different. I like to think of dangerous things as needing to idiot-proof. Most people will do fine, but one is them is always going to get it wrong enough to break it. Things that burn when broken...fires that are almost impossible to put out... Sadly I want to say, as delivered, installing batteries in Gotway wheels is less dangerous to the user. Just wish the batteries themselves were safer in use. My issue is needing to slide the battery past a thin metal edge isn't great when the battery is only protected by a flexible piece of plastic. I see scraping. Especially if the thing you are sliding in deflects towards the side you can't see. The plastic case on the batteries from a v11 or V12 are, while not intended to be user serviced, are less likely to be mishandled. Ideally I would like to see an ABS shell with a nonNewtonian layer between the actual cells and this ABS shell. Woah God, would that be expensive comparatively. I expect to never see this and don't demand it as an end user. But short of that I wouldn't be praising anyone for battery safety. As much as I HATE ebikes, they are doing batteries that end users can handle better. At the end of the day none of what I prattle on about matters. I expect every wheel that isn't airshipped would have these installed by the dealer. For just this reason. The service model extant with EUCs tells me end users will be doing this with wheels that need repair. This is my concern. End users with no recourse other than DIY. End users need to be up-skilled. Nothing more. The bits in regards to the battery packaging imo have more weight than there being issues with expecting end users to have to follow this when servicing/diagnosing issues. It's true that e-bikes have a nice battery enclosure. However that's quite impractical for EUC's, right here for example it would make this Wide Boi wider than it already is. An example of succesful upskilling would be the existance of petrol (gas) stations. Who would think that all the idiots you see on the road are allowed access to a flamethrower everytime they top up. It works though. Here, you can see grooves for the both the top and the bottom of the battery packing, so there isn't really a reason why we shouldn't expect end users of a £2500+ wheel to be able to slide a battery into a shell. In regards to the battery safety (clearance etc), if the wheel lands badly against a sharp protrusion it does seem possible to dent the casing in a way that would also damage the bms. The single saving grace seems to be the existance of the pads. With the pads added there is much less possibility of that type of damage being possible. So it just leaves damage from a impact, which is where your custard barrier would help. But equally, you could get some 3M or something and try and wedge it in there to act a shock absorber, but again the clearance does look preeety tight. Edit: Rewatching the battery install video, it does seem like there is some clearance along the top (back of bms). Edited January 25, 2022 by PourUC Addition 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btl Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) In the front of the battery case aluminium profile, there is the trolley handle. If you dent the front facing corner of it, your trolley handle is probably stuck, but the battery should be fine. I agree that the existence of side pads (be it original or your favorite velcroed-on power/jumpad) should give it only a very little chance of getting damaged. Much more safe than behind a plastic shell like in my EX.N. Edited January 25, 2022 by btl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeforester Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Look on it as a developing market opportunity for @Chrissi! Joking apart, a neoprene jacket with substantial corners or inserts/covers for same (I’m no 3D printer, but I 100% ‘get’ their usefulness) could go a long way for the majority of up to appx ‘half send’ incidents, though this would be entirely the responsibility of the rider anyway. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paradox Posted January 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 26, 2022 Just posted. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugoaps Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFartRides Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 I count a dozen units in that row….dog luv ‘em. Have to admit I’m getting a little caught up in the hype. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post meepmeepmayer Posted January 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 26, 2022 Hollow motor, No axle! Motor cable is quite thick and could easily be made thicker! Very neat side assembly with the battery and what looks like lights(?). All looking very nice and clean. I just might have to buy one! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eucVibes Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 Remix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) Although, it looks like it starts as a motor and tire, to which you add all the rest of the stuff. How much of that’ll have to come off to fix a flat? 🤞 There is that curious machined part of the motor cover? Edited January 26, 2022 by Tawpie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 So in this video we can see that batteries are assembled fully in factory putting minds at ease that end-user would have to do it. 😏 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fbhb Posted January 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tawpie said: Although, it looks like it starts as a motor and tire, to which you add all the rest of the stuff. How much of that’ll have to come off to fix a flat? To my eye, I think the S20 looks like it could well be one of the easiest wheels currently released to drop the motor out of, for fixing flats/tire(tyre) swaps and certainly seems like it may well be reasonably straightforward. King Song look to have really thought about the way the wheel is constructed and assembled (so they definitely learnt a hard lesson with the S18 dramas) especially with All the well engineered for high strength/light weight triangular structures used in many areas. So on that basis, disassembly may also have been high up on the agenda. My thoughts are that after gaining access to the underside of the control board housing to disconnect the motor wires/batteries (accessed as shown in the battery "install video") it could (hopefully) then just be a matter of unbolting the 2 bottom suspension pivots (shown in this photo) and then sliding this complete sliding assembly straight out! It's hard to tell from the images/videos we have so far, but the pedals and their mount assemblies may or may not need to be removed, but it would be a real bonus if they can be left in place. Edited January 26, 2022 by fbhb 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chrissi Posted January 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 26, 2022 14 hours ago, Freeforester said: Look on it as a developing market opportunity for @Chrissi! Joking apart, a neoprene jacket with substantial corners or inserts/covers for same (I’m no 3D printer, but I 100% ‘get’ their usefulness) could go a long way for the majority of up to appx ‘half send’ incidents, though this would be entirely the responsibility of the rider anyway. Awe thanks, we don't qualify for the the 1st batch, but @The Fat Unicyclist said we are high on the list. Hopefully I can save more shells, trolley handles and offer a more comfortable ride! 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucner Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 8 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Hollow motor, No axle! Stop this nonsense. The hollow axle is inside the motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Grimm10 Posted January 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 26, 2022 Jack is doing an unboxing video in a couple of hours! https://youtu.be/oNLKXGO1F1Y 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 4 hours ago, Eucner said: Stop this nonsense. The hollow axle is inside the motor. You can always argue that the inner rim of the hollow motor is the axle. For me, if it isn't an extra piece of metal that is pushed in/welded in and sticks out, it's not an axle (with all its associatd problems). That was the point of saying "no axle". 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Electric Dreams Posted January 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 26, 2022 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 6 minutes ago, Jack ex-KS said: I know you have your review coming, but any word on the final weight of the production model? Super curios. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm10 Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 41 minutes ago, Rawnei said: I know you have your review coming, but any word on the final weight of the production model? Super curios. The most recent info has listed the S20 coming in at 35 Kg, or 77 lbs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 Just now, Grimm10 said: The most recent info has listed the S20 coming in at 35 Kg, or 77 lbs. Where is that from? All official sources (official website, jack) been unsure what production unit would weigh and was all different guesstimates, would rather have solid number and not another guesstimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Blunzn Posted January 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) only downside so far is the missing USB port. considering our hobby consists of riding around all day on a huge powerbank, not putting a charging port somewhere is inexcusable. there is always something to charge like your phone, cam, flashlight, external leds or minispeaker ... hope there will be a mod for a small usb-c port. the 35kg was the info from the begining, with the wider rim and the new tire it may be a bit more ~35-37kg Edited January 26, 2022 by Blunzn 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm10 Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 14 minutes ago, Rawnei said: Where is that from? All official sources (official website, jack) been unsure what production unit would weigh and was all different guesstimates, would rather have solid number and not another guesstimate. I got it from Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10159819372606952&set=g.1876404869187267 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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