Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Lukasz]

12 hours ago, mrelwood said:

There is very little math absolutely required with EUCs, but the one formula that is goes like this:

20” = 19” = 18”

In real world S18 and GW RS, and MSX and V11 and.. ....  outer diameter of the tire is around 50 cm, which makes 19,5"  so - with 3"  tire, or with higher profile  - this can reach 20"  size (but all measured as the outer diameter of the rubber)   My initial feelings/wishes were that larger motor will be used, but this would build up total mass too high - and with long stroke suspension I do not see much need for larger wheel in fact, so lets stay with high torque 6p setup - 100V or more.

Personally I do not ride over 45km/h  but I see the need to be able to increase speed to around 75km/h safely in certain dangerous situations - for example when I need to stay on the road with cars - so that I can maintain same speed of around 60km/h for short time when it is safer to do it instead of being slower and see cars passing you  half a meter away from you.  

[yoos]

ecodrift just polled its subscribers to gauge demand for a KS20 preorder. They plan for a price of 170-180k₽ (=2280-2420$ =1960-2070€). Expected (but still unconfirmed) specs are 2220Wh battery, 126V, topspeed 60-70kph.

[Lukasz]

16 minutes ago, yoos said:

2280-2420$ =1960-2070€). Expected (but still unconfirmed) specs are 2220Wh battery, 126V, topspeed 60-70kph.

This would be quite nice sweet spot - for battery size and speed.  Personally i do not see the real need for batteries  over 2000 Wh unless Your weight is much over 100kg or you plan to ride 100+ km trips (which is very rare)

[jimjam.nyc]

Price looks right, specs look decent. I am sure this won't be fast enough to satisfy some people. If everything turns out to be true

Hopefully, they nail the build quality, and not repeat what the s18 did. I wonder if they will do some software customization like inmotion did for v12.

Looking to be an exciting year for euc.

 

 

[RagingGrandpa]

2 hours ago, yoos said:

2220Wh battery, 126V, topspeed 60-70kph.

To me that means: 21700  30s 4p, and a high-torque motor (because they only reached 100V C30 speeds but went +25% in voltage). Perhaps it's just the 4-turn motor from 16X ?

Sounds lots better than the anemic output S18 had...

Edited August 20, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[fryman]

Okay, @Jack King Song we need another leak, to last us through the weekend.

[NOSFET Electric Dreams]

On 8/21/2021 at 3:28 AM, fryman said:

Okay, @Jack King Song we need another leak, to last us through the weekend.

you're almost there man! 

 

[Mossi]

 

[Lukasz]

I am sure that S20 will inherit good look from S18 and will be by far more "designer style" vs GW Hero.  

[fbhb]

13 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

I am sure that S20 will inherit good look from S18 and will be by far more "designer style" vs GW Hero.

That really is a huge understatement, by any stretch of the imagination! The S20 will totally eclipse anything GotWay/Begode/Extreme Bull or whatever they are calling themselves lately (or any of the other EUC brands for that matter), in the design department.

GW/BG/EB just can't get away from their boxy suitcase mentality, even down to enclosing the display panel in yet another square shaped box and at a rumoured price point of $4,100 USD they must be smoking some really strong sh*t!  

Edited August 24, 2021 by fbhb

[Ádám Szitás]

The site now says S20 Eagle Specs. It's here. 

When you click on the specs page it asks for a password, anybody knows yet?

[Lukasz]

2200 Wh , 126V  seems to be confirmed.

This is really good battery size ;-)

[jimjam.nyc]

1 minute ago, Lukasz said:

2200 Wh , 126V  seems to be confirmed.

This is really good battery size ;-)

I wonder what the 126v brings to the table.. Its doesnt seem to be speed, since the rumor is this won't be a speed demon wheel. Though i am sure it will be faster than any other KS wheel to date.. 

Will the 126v bring better efficiency? or safety margin? Or just more Bugs and Kinks? 

I can feel a difference in the 100v vs 84 volt wheels.. Will there be a similar change in ride feel with this increase? Or is it just fluff marketing.   

 

[Rawnei]

4 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I wonder what the 126v brings to the table.. Its doesnt seem to be speed, since the rumor is this won't be a speed demon wheel. Though i am sure it will be faster than any other KS wheel to date.. 

Will the 126v bring better efficiency? or safety margin? Or just more Bugs and Kinks? 

I can feel a difference in the 100v vs 84 volt wheels.. Will there be a similar change in ride feel with this increase? Or is it just fluff marketing.   

 

If it's ~60kmh high torque that's really good.

[Rawnei]

12 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

2200 Wh , 126V  seems to be confirmed.

This is really good battery size ;-)

Confirmed how, where? Source?

[Rotan]

At the bottom of the website you can see the rear of the wheel now... seems cool, similar to s18

[RagingGrandpa]

9 minutes ago, Rotan said:

you can see the rear of the wheel now

Well, not exactly the wheel...

[Lukasz]

This is the same suspension setup as in S18 with coil spring damper with second chamber.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Lukasz said:

2200 Wh , 126V  seems to be confirmed.

Is it confirmed?

This battery size could be 84V as well (twice that of the S18). Saying that just so people aren't disappointed if it turns out not to be 126V, but 84V.

1 hour ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I wonder what the 126v brings to the table.. Its doesnt seem to be speed, since the rumor is this won't be a speed demon wheel. Though i am sure it will be faster than any other KS wheel to date.. 

Will the 126v bring better efficiency? or safety margin? Or just more Bugs and Kinks? 

I can feel a difference in the 100v vs 84 volt wheels.. Will there be a similar change in ride feel with this increase? Or is it just fluff marketing.   

Higher voltage either gives you more top speed, or more torque with the same top speed, or you can distribute the improvement between both. It would be a 50% improvement (if it is 126V) over 84V (compared to 100V being a 20% improvement).

-

I would be surprised if KS go 126V before Gotway, but who knows... maybe the S20 really is 126V?

Edited August 24, 2021 by meepmeepmayer

[UniVehje]

17 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I would be surprised if KS go 126V before Gotway, but who knows... maybe the S20 really is 126V?

Is there something specific on 126V that is so complicated that you'd have to first practice with 100V? To me it sounds like just a decision of what the benefit is vs. cost of beefier components required. Sure, Gotway's biggest competitive advantage has been top speed and thus they had the incentive to go ever higher. 

To me it sounds like market driven decision to go to higher voltage. Just look at the amount of discussion about it over here. I'm still not convinced that in real world riding bicycle lanes, forest paths or gravel roads at 30-45 km/h (as I do usually) I would see any practical difference between 84V, 100V and 126V wheels. Unless the higher voltage can actually be translated to some other benefit than potential top speed due to back emf effect. Sometimes it sounds like some people think that more voltage = higher speeds and usually you need more power for higher speeds, therefore higher voltage = more power. Am I mistaken or is there actually real life noticeable power difference with higher voltage everything else staying equal?

[yoos]

1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

 

It's hilarious how Kingsong designs slow wheels that look like Ferraris while Gotway makes crazy fast wheels with the looks of soviet diesel locomotives. [Seriously though, the S20 is probably fast enough for most]

[Rotan]

8 minutes ago, yoos said:

It's hilarious how Kingsong designs slow wheels that look like Ferraris while Gotway makes crazy fast wheels with the looks of soviet diesel locomotives. [Seriously though, the S20 is probably fast enough for most]

to me even s18 is fast enough, also the range was close to enough but i need the torque for climbing... now I have MSP HT and I never make it beep and I never used the full 1800w in one day, but I like to accelerate hard when I start moving

I really want to see this s20 but it's overkill for me, also 2k is what I wanna spend for a wheel and no more, and my 26kg of MSP already feel like a bit too much... so I'm more hyped over the rumored s16

Edited August 24, 2021 by Rotan

[Menace]

3 minutes ago, yoos said:

It's hilarious how Kingsong designs slow wheels that look like Ferraris while Gotway makes crazy fast wheels with the looks of soviet diesel locomotives. [Seriously though, the S20 is probably fast enough for most]

Yeah that is pretty funny. And one of the fastest looks like a tank...

Id take a fast ugly wheel over a cool slow one any day tho. TBH I actually really like how most of the gotways look, and the verterans look cool too. I am pretty sure that the s20 will be the coolest looking wheel though.

[yoos]

24 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Am I mistaken or is there actually real life noticeable power difference with higher voltage everything else staying equal?

Apart from the higher top speed due to higher critical rpm for the motor there are a few benefits:

One benefit is lower losses during (power) transmission: heat losses in cables depend on current (W = I²R). So, if you charge at, say 1Ampere, the 126V system will charge faster (at a rate of 126W) compared to a lower voltage one, while heat losses would still be the same (assuming same wiring). Since fast charging is sometimes limited by the thin charging connectors, the higher voltage helps. [However, simply using beefier charging wires would be an easier solution]. Another benefit is that voltage sag is reduced somewhat. Typically, voltage sag in a cell is proportional to current. If you work with higher voltage, then you need lower current to produce the same power. Hence, voltage sag is less, relatively speaking. 

However, I think that there are considerable disadvantages too: Most importantly, higher voltage require more cells in series in a battery. This means balancing is more difficult and long and there are more chances for a bad cell eventually appearing. The longer a chain the higher the chance for a link to break. Thus, it is more difficult/expensive to ensure proper quality/capacity/longevity for a 126V pack. This is partially solved by strict quality control, test running packs and sourcing good cells. 

[Rawnei]

Lets not have another discussion about fast vs slow, it's been discussed to death and obviously there are many different preferences and opinions about speeds and there is no point wishing for arbitrary limits just because you have a personal preference, options are positive. 😊

Personally I'm hoping for at least 60kmh wheel with good torque, range, waterproofing and suspension that could do everything from ride in the rain, off-road and hit the Skatepark, that'd be a dream wheel.