2.0 firmware for KS-18L/XL is available

[FlyboyEUC]

2 minutes ago, Aneta said:

So, a question for those who ride both 18L/XL and MSX/Nikola: did the update obliterate Gotway's most powerful wheels, or made them on the same level, or inched KS closer to GW, but still behind? Genuinely curious mind here.

Can't say for torque and acceleration, but Gotway will always be the king of speed and power. Kingsong doesn't want that title. My KS wheels are quieter than my 100v MSX now. But my KS wheels will never hit 40 mph. And the MSX will always run cooler than the 18XL. No firmware can change that.

[Marty Backe]

34 minutes ago, Aneta said:

So, a question for those who ride both 18L/XL and MSX/Nikola: did the update obliterate Gotway's most powerful wheels, or made them on the same level, or inched KS closer to GW, but still behind? Genuinely curious mind here.

KingSong will always play second fiddle to Gotway in the performance department. There's no indication that KingSong wants to compete at the Gotway level.

[seage]

Hey all, so i did what @meepmeepmayer mentioned and did a purposeful extreme calibration. Now i didnt calibrate it on its side or something funky. It was actually pretty much perfectly straight, but i tilted it far back, and figured id make a quick video outlining what happens on turning. The ground in my garage flows downwards slightly, you know, no flooding, so on. So i did notice a difference in the level when uphill, downhill and sideways (level). When i pushed the wheel the opposite direction, it kept the same angle. Only when i turned 180 or even 90 degrees did it shift. Maybe this is how its always balanced, but i didnt notice before?

I like how my thumbnails no longer show up on here...whyyy?

[Meserias]

could you please guys post what FW version you own before upgrading to this 2.0...

[Seba]

2 hours ago, Flyboy10 said:

Firmware speaking, the 18LH is the XL.

Standard, 2000 W versions of KS-18L and KS-18XL uses the same firmware - KS18L. KS18LH is a firmware for a higher powered (2200 W) KS-18L and KS-18XL variants. It's important to not load KS18LH firmware into legacy, 2000 W version of KS-18XL or KS-18L. 

KS-18L and KS-18XL share the same components. They only differ in battery capacity which is encoded in 6th digit of serial number. So serial number of KS-18L starts with "KS18L2", while KS-18XL starts with "KS18L4".

2 hours ago, Flyboy10 said:

I have no clue what the 14smd is.... Maybe the new 2020 wheel???   More realistically it is probably the S, D, and M versions all put together.

Exactly. At some point KS unified their firmware for KS14 family by creating common firmware.

[mrelwood]

25 minutes ago, Seba said:

At some point KS unified their firmware for KS14 family by creating common firmware.

And now at least the firmware version number is the same for 16S and 18(X)L as well.

I just upgraded my old 16S to fw 2.0. And my senses were all messed up when I quickly tried it:  It. Does! Not!! Whine!!! A 16S that doesn’t whine used to be a 16S that is not balancing, no other explanation.

It also pushes me up a 5 metre long steep incline with much more stability and feeling of power, it no longer feels like it’s struggling. It used to feel like a V8 for a moment...

Oh how I wish we had this firmware two years ago, since I don’t really ride the 16S anymore.

[Seba]

1 hour ago, Flyboy10 said:

And the MSX will always run cooler than the 18XL.

We don't really know that. This is only based on readings we all get from app. But there is significant difference in how an where temperature is being measured. The temperature indicated by MSX is actually the temperature of the so-called IMU, a chip located quite far from the MOSFET transistors. In the case of the KS-18L/XL, on the other hand, it is the temperature measured by a dedicated sensor located at the MOSFET transistor on the opposite side of the cooling fan, which is the hottest.

Ideally, each wheel should measure the temperature of MOSFET transistors, which are the "workhorses" of our wheels and they heat up most under load. Gotway actually measures the temperature of the PCB on which IMU is mounted. Therefore, it may seem as if it is "cool running", especially when a cooling fan is blowing on the PCB. However, the actual transistor temperature can be much higher. In this respect, King Song is much better - it uses a dedicated sensor, which is placed directly at the case of worst-cooled transistor and near the heatsink plate.

[Unventor]

9 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

I had a  big fat smile on my face all day long. 

I recall seen this post a few times regarding KS18L and KS16X 

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

KingSong will always play second fiddle to Gotway in the performance department. There's no indication that KingSong wants to compete at the Gotway level.

Well lets just say we disagree on this one. Speed isnt everythung. (and with a comment list that I can't help think why on earth did KS approch you to test a product).

For those that want to see how I argue my opinion read on. (I am not making bold statements)

As an example I view FW updates to be a much smarter solution rather than being stuch on a design and having to but next batch parts when it could have been resolved in a fw. In this regard GW is not ahead at all. 

I commute a lot with my wheels. and when in a shop, a trolley handle is a must have. Also in this regard GW isn't at the same level as KS. Adding the latest digital cutoff lift sensor KS gets even better. 

As for headlights, well it is a tight game maybe. But still KS seems a bit further ahead in their solution here too.

Legal max speed in my country on euc is 20kmh. Despite how much I would like rhis to be higher it just isn't. If I were to ride at 60kmh down the road I would bring much unwanted attention to me and I am pretty sure the police would find an intrest in this too. Since I only ride 30ish kmh on the bikepath I seems to stay under the rader of negative attention. 

We have the luck of different brands making different wheels, I much more prefer to have diversity of choice than a design race on something I don't need.Thant some choose GW is fine by me. But that is not the same as other makers don't have a valid product. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Unventor
Please lets not get a new brand war. But embrase that we can pick from diffint designs to our liking.

[travsformation]

6 hours ago, Flyboy10 said:

For what it is worth, when my 18 XL 2200w conversion had v1.00 on it, It felt like a 16X. Above 25 mph I could pedal dip very easily on demand by flicking my toes. Scary stuff. Now with v2.00 I can't recreate it, I've tried. For me, I've tested my wheel over potholes at 30 mph and it is back to, if not better than, my 2000w v1.13 in terms of available power at top speed.

Thanks!

The torque feels like it's pretty much unlimited at all speeds (except from zero), and it definitely has no issue speeding up from 30 to 40 km/h in a heartbeat, or 40 - 45 km/h. I haven't gone any faster than that, but it's reassuring to know there's enough power to cope with potholes. My main concern would be rider error/overconfidence leaning to an overlean at high speeds but...

7 hours ago, Flyboy10 said:

When I lean hard on my KS wheels they beep crazy fast but never cutout. I've heard this on firmware v1.10, 1.11, 1.12, and 2.00.  Once I hear those beeps I freak out and stand up straight. coming home from work on friday I heard 2 or 3 rounds of those crazy fast beeps (I will admit there was a crowd staring at me so I was hot-dogging it @Marty Backe ). I feel confident with v2.00

...that's good news!  In that department, I'm happy to have EUC World's alarms, as when I got the current alarm, I had no indication whatsoever from the wheel (not saying anything's wrong, just that I feel safer having an extra "early warning" system in place). Actually, I plan on lowering my speed alarm (EUC World >> in-helmet headset) until I get used to the upgrade, so I'm more conscious of the speed I'm going. Which is where I feel the most dangerous aspect of this upgrade lays: turn your wheel into a Ferrari overnight and you're bound to have some accidents. Attributable to the driver, not the Ferrari, but still worth mentioning so people approach with caution.

'Cause the thing about speed is you get used to it very fast. When I wound up riding at 40+ km/h, which I don't usually do, what made me notice how fast I was going was the sense of instability when turning or braking---I'm not used to doing so at that speed. But hey, maybe I was just caught up in the moment, other people have more common sense and my words of caution should be mainly addressed to myself

As to the FW, I still think it's wise to approach with caution (and fully geared up). It's only been a couple of days since its release after all...

BTW, on the subject of hot-dogging...wow! Yesterday I managed to drain 20% worth of battery in 13 km   Squeeze this thing and it'll delivery, but whoah, does the battery go FAST...

7 hours ago, Flyboy10 said:

Side note: I heard a lot of comments during Marty's LA tour how crazy I was for taking my 18XL off stairs, jumps, and going very fast. It is a very capable wheel, especially off road. When commuting, I ride above 25 mph, always. As I said in another thread, I ride (and drive) with purpose. Not trying to brag but I want others to know that it is a powerful wheel.

I can second that! I do most of my riding off-road, and this is a seriously capable wheel. The only issues I've ever had have been struggling up seriously steep and rutted hills, or braking on stretches of a MTB downhill track. It will be interesting to to tackle that route again post-upgrade! Can't wait!

7 hours ago, Flyboy10 said:

My wife and I were thinking why have both the front and rear lights on and we thought, "well, what if the wheel behind you didn't have a light? You could share yours!"  I think another cool idea with the two headlights would be a video of @Rama Douglas flowing with his wheel in the dark with some fog doing the penny trick or similar tricks that Mitch and SideStreetReny does.

The "light-sharing" approach is an interesting take. I wish I could activate it with my Flic button to "share" the light with some of the A-holes who ride too close behind me...

I like the idea of the penny trick in the fog! I don't know if it's the same on your wheel, but when I activate "strobe mode", it flashes red & white, both in the front and back. That could look cool when doing tricks too! 

[RoadRunner]

35 minutes ago, travsformation said:

until I get used to the upgrade, so I'm more conscious of the speed I'm going. Which is where I feel the most dangerous aspect of this upgrade lays: turn your wheel into a Ferrari overnight and you're bound to have some accidents

Well that’s the benefit of having a 16X for a while. I already know this kind of power. 

[travsformation]

5 minutes ago, RoadRunner said:

Well that’s the benefit of having a 16X for a while. I already know this kind of power. 

"With great power, comes great responsibility"

I think I'm this guy now:

Edited January 12, 2020 by travsformation

[seage]

I have made a new thread to talk about my issues as to not derail this one any further as everyone in here send to not be having any issues, haha. Would love to get any feedback I can on it if any of you have a moment later. For now I'll resign from this thread, but hopefully I'll be back to gush again soon! Haha. 

[travsformation]

37 minutes ago, seage said:

I have made a new thread to talk about my issues as to not derail this one any further as everyone in here send to not be having any issues, haha. Would love to get any feedback I can on it if any of you have a moment later. For now I'll resign from this thread, but hopefully I'll be back to gush again soon! Haha. 

Leave a link to your new thread here before dropping out of this one

[seage]

3 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Leave a link to your new thread here before dropping out of this one

Oh, okay. I didn't want to be a tosser haha. 

Here's the thread:

Thank you 😊

[FlyboyEUC]

@Seba, thanks for the clarifications. I do remember now that before my 2200w change I had to use the 18L firmware to unbrick my wheel.

@Unventor I agree that KS has by far the more user friendly, comfortable wheel. If I only had one wheel it would be the KS. Until Gotway does something with that trolley handle . But yeah, let's not derail this thread.

[Marty Backe]

6 hours ago, Unventor said:

Well lets just say we disagree on this one. Speed isnt everythung. (and with a comment list that I can't help think why on earth did KS approch you to test a product).

For those that want to see how I argue my opinion read on. (I am not making bold statements)

As an example I view FW updates to be a much smarter solution rather than being stuch on a design and having to but next batch parts when it could have been resolved in a fw. In this regard GW is not ahead at all. 

I commute a lot with my wheels. and when in a shop, a trolley handle is a must have. Also in this regard GW isn't at the same level as KS. Adding the latest digital cutoff lift sensor KS gets even better. 

As for headlights, well it is a tight game maybe. But still KS seems a bit further ahead in their solution here too.

Legal max speed in my country on euc is 20kmh. Despite how much I would like rhis to be higher it just isn't. If I were to ride at 60kmh down the road I would bring much unwanted attention to me and I am pretty sure the police would find an intrest in this too. Since I only ride 30ish kmh on the bikepath I seems to stay under the rader of negative attention. 

We have the luck of different brands making different wheels, I much more prefer to have diversity of choice than a design race on something I don't need.Thant some choose GW is fine by me. But that is not the same as other makers don't have a valid product. 

Nothing you said contradicts my assertion.

Having the best trolley handle (I agree) does not make it a superior performance wheel.

Gotway makes 'race cars'. KingSong makes 'performance luxury cars'. That's how I would put it.

I get to ride with a lot of guys that push their wheels, many visit from different parts of the country. KingSong just is not a wheel that you see being ridden by them for obvious reasons.

Just because I state the obvious doesn't mean I hate or dislike KingSong wheels. The KS16X if one of my go-to wheels and is actually fast enough for all of my personal riding. I think I'm fairly objective in the expression of my views and that's why KingSong would approach me.

[travsformation]

1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

Gotway makes 'race cars'. KingSong makes 'performance luxury cars'.

+1! 

[travsformation]

9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

The KS16X if one of my go-to wheels and is actually fast enough for all of my personal riding.

You should really consider updating the 18XL's FW then. 

If the most recent version of the KS app doesn't work for you, maybe. 3.1.8 will. Otherwise, maybe you could reach out to Jason and see if he's willing to send you the KS SofTuner app (I'm sure he is, with as many purchases your videos have indirectly incentivized)  😉 

Luckily, such issues will soon be a thing of the past... Can't wait to be able to update my wheel's FW with EUC World! 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, travsformation said:

You should really consider updating the 18XL's FW then. 

If the most recent version of the KS app doesn't work for you, maybe. 3.1.8 will. Otherwise, maybe you could reach out to Jason and see if he's willing to send you the KS SofTuner app (I'm sure he is, with as many purchases your videos have indirectly incentivized)  😉 

Luckily, such issues will soon be a thing of the past... Can't wait to be able to update my wheel's FW with EUC World! 

I only use the 3.1.8 app. I'll update the firmware eventually.

The 18XL will never rise to the same level as the 16X and other wheels of mine because of its tire. It just can't compare to the comfort and capability of the new 3-inch wheels.

I don't care how fast it becomes, accelerates, etc. with new firmware. It doesn't have a 3-inch tire 

[D3m0nzz]

I seem to be in the minority because I prefer the thinner tire to the new 3-inchers. I am currently in the process of shopping for a 100V wheel, but have not really enjoyed the ride-feel of any of them.

After riding a 16XL, MSX, and Nikola, I feel like the 3 inch wheels just dont like to lean into a turn. I had to fight all of those wheels in a turn because they want to stay upright. The 18XL has been a tough wheel to beat for riding feel both due to its thinner profile and the leanability of its tire. 

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, D3m0nzz said:

I seem to be in the minority because I prefer the thinner tire to the new 3-inchers. I am currently in the process of shopping for a 100V wheel, but have not really enjoyed the ride-feel of any of them.

After riding a 16XL, MSX, and Nikola, I feel like the 3 inch wheels just dont like to lean into a turn. I had to fight all of those wheels in a turn because they want to stay upright. The 18XL has been a tough wheel to beat for riding feel both due to its thinner profile and the leanability of its tire. 

And that's why it's good to have choices 

But I'm worried for you because I fear (for you) that the thinner tires will be going the way of the Dodo bird 

[D3m0nzz]

1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

And that's why it's good to have choices 

But I'm worried for you because I fear (for you) that the thinner tires will be going the way of the Dodo bird 

I agree and am also sad to see the industry moving that way. Probably going to ride my 18XL into the ground before I upgrade again. I have already stripped it down to the bolts to do a shell swap, so I am pretty confident in my ability to keep the wheel on life support for as long as possible.

Who knows? By that time we might have a 100V MCM5 or some other equally rediculous smaller wheel  

[TomOnWheels]

22 hours ago, Flyboy10 said:

Mine just has 1 through 4

Yes... Just updated a friend 18L and lights acts differently too...

[TomOnWheels]

20 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

With the KS app, I set my lights how i like (auto headlight, brake light in rear) and that is what i get when I first power it up. Maybe im just lucky it works like that on mine. Im happy as the startup light is my favorite, so the only other mode i care about is 'all off', should i want someday. The red chargin light is cool, but i can see how it draws attention to it.

How ? I can only set on/off/auto... what app are you using and on which platform ?