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2.0 firmware for KS-18L/XL is available


Seba

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13 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Just a short question, how long did it take for you to see any download progress of the firmware. All I get is the circle spinning, but nothing else happens. It seems to me something is blocking file trasfer (could be because of android 10 or company policy rules on my or just high load request on the KS server). Screenshot_20200110-000433_Kingsong.thumb.jpg.1dac6df8d6a406ae74327cb84da7eca7.jpg

I opted to use my ipad, because my android phone seemed to always glitch out during updates. For me on ios, it began immediately. I'm not sure how much of that has to do with my internet speed though, as i have 1gb/s download atm (some fibre optix promo thing)

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12 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Unventor, my download took just moments to start and surprised me that it worked as expected in less than 2-4 mins. I have VERY slow satellite net and was using an ipadmini via bluetooth. Id suggest to 'ABORT MISSION", unless you have great luck in your past gambles. Until my update gets reverted or something changes, im stuck with a VERY slow wheel.

thanks for the info. I had it sitting for 20 min then force quit the app. I have tried to clear out all cache and data. I guess I have to test logging out and then back in. But I have prosponed this until tomorrow. I am not too worried about speed setting, it is easy to fix should it reset. I don't ride faster than 40kmh these days anyway in general. So unlock from 20kmh to 40 kmh isn't that long a ride.

As of internet connection I have tried by LAn/fiber a 250/250mb/s line, and by mobile data too. I detect firmware instand, pressing update that is when circles start spinning, but nothing else. As I recall the wheels leds shifts as process starts....:huh:

Edited by Unventor
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8 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Thanks for that. My vehicle was showing up, and it did have to log in after the update to 2.0  ks18l.  I tried again and logged out and back in, still no speed setting allowed. It says X setting parameter at anything above 12mph. Oddly, darknessbot updated recently and it doesnt show ANY speed changes available. IIRC, i never got the KS app to work for speed settings and was using DB from the start.  Pretty damn scary to hit that speed alarm when you're used to going a little faster. I was headed downhill on my street with no voice command, when it tilted like crazy on me. Damn, i just wish i had left it alone, it WAS working fine.

 

Unventor, my download took just moments to start and surprised me that it worked as expected in less than 2-4 mins. I have VERY slow satellite net and was using an ipadmini via bluetooth. Id suggest to 'ABORT MISSION", unless you have great luck in your past gambles. Until my update gets reverted or something changes, im stuck with a VERY slow wheel.

Sorry to hear its bugging, mate...thats really the worst. May i ask, how many KM (miles) have you done overall? Did they get rid of the official amount of KM you need to unlock full speed, or do you still have to do the work around? Because if you're under the official amount, this new update may have changed that parameter back (to needing to do i think it was 200km? Correct me if i'm wrong) before being able to unlock the 50km/h top speed. I knew there were work arounds with other apps. Back in the day (lol) there were 3 stages. One to unlock the speed to 20....then another to 40? And then the full 50. They got rid of the 20, but maybe you dont have enough mileage for the top speed. 

I feel like i ran in circles here.....

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13 minutes ago, Unventor said:

thanks for the info. I had it sitting for 20 min then force quit the app. I have tried to clear out all cache and data. I guess I have to test logging out and then back in. But I have prosponed this until tomorrow. I am not too worried about speed setting, it is easy to fix should it reset. I don't ride faster than 40kmh these days anyway in general. So unlock from 20kmh to 40 kmh isn't that long a ride.

The newer fw does seem to handle minute leveling differently. Seage is probably right in that it doesnt seem to overcorrect as immediately. I began jumping curbs and realized its just as one would expect. Simply bend the knees and roll out as if it didnt happen. At any rate, 12mph is horribly slow. Im not a speed demon, and rarely hit the limit i had set at 20mph. I feel that 15-18mph is a sweet spot. Im sure missing it now. Anyhow, let us know how the update goes. Mine went very fast, so if yours doesnt, i'd quit and retry.

 

 

Seage: Im new at 58miles  (93km?)   Im stuck at the 20kmh setting now.  I am pretty sure I was at 30kmh after 50miles of riding? Hell, I cant keep up with it. I WAS using DB, but now it wont let me either.  Maybe im not supposed to be going as quickly as I was already, and was cheating. All i know for sure is that i need to learn to convert kmh/mph in my head, i cant go as fast as I was, and im sneaky i guess. I must be one of the few who doesnt have a cellphone and doesnt care to monitor everything my wheel does. I hope to fully unlock it soon and ignore that it is even capable of any of that stuff.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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@ShanesPlanet

Mine went down to 20km/h too, DB didn’t change it, however KS app unlocked it directly in speed settings (warp is even a bit higher than before, 50km/h) Hope you get it to work.

Otherwise: yes feels nice, different from just gotway hard, could probably be tuned a bit more as you feel a reaction curve. 
It defaults to hard mode, medium users might turn it down to be able to compare. Would be interesting to know how much this impacts range.

(Thanks @RockyTop ^_^

Edited by null
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2 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Seage: Im new at 58miles  (93km?)   Im stuck at the 20kmh setting now.  I am pretty sure I was at 30kmh after 50miles of riding? Hell, I cant keep up with it. I WAS using DB, but now it wont let me either.  Maybe im not supposed to be going as quickly as I was already, and was cheating. All i know for sure is that i need to learn to convert kmh/mph in my head, i cant go as fast as I was, and im sneaky i guess. I must be one of the few who doesnt have a cellphone and doesnt care to monitor everything my wheel does. I hope to fully unlock it soon and ignore that it is even capable of any of that stuff.

Yeah, i just looked it up. In the past it was 5km to unlock from 20kmh to 40kmh, so its most def glitched if you're at 93.... but you're below whats needed for the full unlock. But by the looks of it, it probably wouldnt let you update once you got there anyways. I don't want to recommend unlinking your wheel then relinking, because last time i tried that, my wheel never linked to the app again until today. Im not quite sure what you can do, if you're saying DarknessBot no longer gives you the options. Have you done a fresh reset of your phone, cleared caches and whatnot? Just overkilled everything to see if it might be a glitch of some sort? And do you have another phone or tablet you can try? I have my android phone and my ipad that i switch between to get my wheel working. 

And i see. I love monitoring as I enjoy riding moderately fast, lol.. something I said id never do when i first joined the forums. But i like being in control. Knowing when im pushing too hard, how much the battery is sagging. Stuff thats going on so i can anticipate behaviour. Its fun for me. 

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Awesome recap Zoom, thanks! Maybe my speed problem will resolve after I set this up to spin for 10km. I also noticed the beep notifications on the lift sensor changed? Never got fast enough to hear a differance, but i wouldnt doubt there is. All in all, these SEEM like good improvements...Upadted: Yes, totally operator error. My little pad doesnt show 'warp' unless I scroll. I had forgotten it was there and was setting the alarms at speeds higher than 'warp'. After scrolling and seeing my mistake, it allows me to set back up to 30mph/50kmh. Only after uninstalling and re-installing the ios app, did i notice MY mistake. Hooray, back to being able to set my speed at a setting lower than max. Apologies if I wasted anyones time with my own ignorance. Now if only i could use the KS app without having wifi enabled, I could totally uninstall darknessbot.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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5 hours ago, Aneta said:

I wonder about these handling improvements in 1.13 and 2.0 - are they improvements on top of what was real "give it all", "state of the art" at the time, or they are relaxation of intentional conservative "throttling down" of the earlier versions of firmware? In other words, was firmware before 1.13 and 2.0 giving you 100% of system power as was achievable at that time, and 1.13 increased it by, say, 10%, and 2.0 increased it 10% more, due to better algorithm found; or was the old firmware simply giving you (intentionally) only 80% of system capability (for safety reasons? to collect usage statistics that it doesn't cause too many wipeouts/injuries?), but when they got more confident in safety, they simply relaxed some of this choking in the newer firmware?

I don't think anyone not working for KS can accurately/reliably answer that question

5 hours ago, Aneta said:

I'm curious what's really happening with these FW updates, and if the handling improvements are real or we're being tricked into thinking that they are real by relaxing artificial restrictions. Basically, the question is: "Marketing BS or Real Thing?"

 

5 hours ago, Aneta said:

Is Kingsong giving you 100% initially, and then finding some miraculous way to give you 110, then 120% by firmware updates; or they are giving you 80% initially, then "improving" it to 90%, then finally 100%, and everybody screams hooray about great improvement

Giving you 110-120% isn't really an option, no matter how well power delivery is fine-tuned, so I'm leaning toward the latter. Although I don't really see much of a problem with it: relaxing (perhaps quite conservative) "artificial" (safety) restrictions on such a mature wheel, after its proven its safety and reliability over thousands of miles (since the 1st batch of 18L's shipped) seems like a sensitive approach, very much in line with the good ol', pre-16X, safety-centric KS philosophy. I imagine that, as is the case with any wheel out there, there's a marketing decision behind it, probably to up their "performance game", possibly to compensate for the 16X's top-speed shortcoming and not lag too far behind GW now that the new MSX is out in the wild.

In any case, regardless of the motivations and (behind-the-scenes) details of how the performance improvement is achieved, it's very real---the most noticeable and dramatic FW update since I bought my 1st-batch 18XL. Acceleration and braking are greatly improved (as in, I noticed it before I even climbed on the wheel, just by pushing the trolley handle), and the general riding feel is (subjectively) much smoother and more refined. I haven't tested it extensively yet, but so far I'm very impressed. Ironic that this update arrives the same day I'm expected to receive my 16X :efee612b4b::D

Plus, KS is now way ahead of the curve when it comes to lighting options: what other brand offers two headlights or brake lights simultaneously (front and rear)? :roflmao:

 

Edited by travsformation
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Hope to get some clarification about the firmware update path.

Is this latest v2.00 for both 2000W (KS-18L) and 2200W (KS-18LH) wheels?

KS-18L v1.13 upgrades to v2.00

KS-18LH v1.00 upgrades to v2.00

Unifying firmware versions would make things easier to understand, but wondering if the firmware behaves differently based on the model KS-18L vs KS-18LH?

Edited by Asphalt
Clarified question.
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1 minute ago, Asphalt said:

Hope to get some clarification about the firmware update path.

This latest KS-18XL v2.00 is for both 2000W (KS-18L) and 2200W (KS-18LH) wheels?

KS-18L v1.13 upgrades to v2.00

KS-18LH v1.00 upgrades to v2.00

Unifying firmware versions would make things easier to understand, but wondering if the firmware behaves differently based on the model KS-18L vs KS-18LH?

I just upgraded from KS-18LH v1.00 to v2.00

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59 minutes ago, ChandlerAZ said:

 

So did I, with the aftermarket 2200w motor. So far everything is sunshine and rainbows but we'll see how it does on my commute tomorrow. The pedal play being removed is the biggest positive for me so far.

Edited by Flyboy10
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Just made a video with me complaining about the wheel tilting back on tight turns. Its rendering right now, but the video truly is just me saying: The wheel keeps tilting back.

In my lil test, the wheel tilted pretty hard when i did smaller turns on an incline. Didnt notice so much on declines. But i was put right on my heels on tighter turns on uneven ground. I did a pretty tight tturn at the end of my video to pull into my driveway and almost lost my balance. Almost felt like the wheel wanted to shoot out from under me. 

Now, i tried to calibrate a few times, as it felt like my wheel used to back when my calibration was all glitched out. Im still thinking this may have something to do with that. The other thing is, my tire has a slow leak. (I just recently got my replacement tubes but figured i'll continue using my slimed leaking tube for the rest of this messy season, as i have to run lower psi in all the ice and snow and sharp ass salt). The tire may have been lower than normal, im not sure of the psi. But i wonder if it has to try to compensate for the lower psi as well and that could be why i feel super off balance? I'll try to pump that thang up and see if it helps. Anyone else noticing any weird things in tight turns?

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Seage: Ill have to recheck tomorrow, but i did notice that MAYBE my wheel is responding a little slower in tight turns. I scrape my pedals often, but after the FW update, I did a few tight 180's and noticed that the pedals stayed dipped to the front, a bit longer or more than before, as I exit the turn. Keep in mind that there is ZERO level streets out here, so these turns were either uphill or down. Regardless, I didnt fall off and chalked it up to rider error. I'll pay more attention to it when i ride more. It is an absolute fact that i will encounter abrupt grade changes out here whenever i turn.  It seems mine is behaving differently than yours in this regard, perhaps a little more refined or sedate on mine. Something has definitely smoothed out how agressively it tried to balance itself. (140lbs 6'3" soaking wet, 80% batt fresh from room temps, 50's outside) I am just overjoyed that my speed limit is WAY higher than i want to go for now. I'll be riding a lot over the next few days. Fwiw, i ride in experience mode, as i assume its a faster power delivery, am i wrong? So far i can't complain about the update (other than operator errors).

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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6 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Seage: Ill have to recheck tomorrow, but i did notice that MAYBE my wheel is responding a little slower in tight turns. I scrape my pedals often, but after the FW update, I did a few tight 180's and noticed that the pedals stayed dipped to the front, a bit longer or more than before, as I exit the turn. Keep in mind that there is ZERO level streets out here, so these turns were either uphill or down. Regardless, I didnt fall off and chalked it up to rider error. I'll pay more attention to it when i ride more. It is an absolute fact that i will encounter abrupt grade changes out here whenever i turn.  It seems mine is behaving differently than yours in this regard. I am just overjoyed that my speed limit is WAY higher than i want to go for now. I'll be riding a lot over the next few days. Fwiw, i ride in experience mode, as i assume its a faster power delivery, am i wrong? So far i can't complain about the update (other than operator errors).

Oh what? You fixed it? And dipped forward hey? Mine tilted the opposite way. Im starting to think its human error. I did another calibration, this time with the wheel wedged up, perfectly level. The only issue was pressing the button and having it not move at all, which was tough. IT shook a little, but when i went out, i noticed it wasnt acting as erratic. That MAY be my issue. The pedal tilt isnt enough atm. I dont ride level, i usually have a forward lean, and like to stand on my toes when i ride. So im gonna have to calibrate again. But before i came in for the last time, i was able to throw the wheel into a quick 90 degree turn and barely felt any level change. So its proooobably me.... Since i have to hold the power button a bit longer to turn on the wheel, i think it may have shook a little bit during the calibration, which made it act like a carnival ride. 

Looking forward to hearing your results afterwards. Its almost scary to not hear my familiar whine whilst riding quicker, tbh, haha. Its like a familiar comfort is gone. 

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Seage: I calibrate mine with a 4' level across the pedal. I realized my error on the speed settings, as 'warp' was below my screen and i am happily not used to ipads and touch screens. I didnt pay any attention to the sound, as i was shocked with that slow speed tilt and hyper focused on that. I hope i dont miss that comforting whine i was getting used to. I stand on my toes on the very edges of the pads, when going uphill, especially in the wind. I stand so far forward in my hill of a street, that sometimes the pedals even rattle (as im barely on them). I put my tire way up to 40psi to help, but i am trying to learn to grab the wheel with my legs and help my toes, as i ride uphill in very soft dirt and thru cowfields. I could only imagine that setting the balance 'forward', would make my situation worse. Even my house is not flat, nor my floor, hence the using a real level to calibrate.  I havent played with calibrating for a custom lean angle. Makes sense that the software could accomodate it.  I had a lot of user error for my first week, as I didnt understand how precise calibration can be. I tried using steps, eyeballing, using tables for referance, even my stand. It seemed I got different results each time. Amazing how we easily feel such slight variances. At this time tho, I cant complain too much yet, I'll need more miles. Regardless, it is what it is, so hopefully i wont focus on that i cannot change.  *make sure your tire direction is correct, when you replace that tube. Mines backwards. I doubt it matters much, but to an ocd type, it may.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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2 minutes ago, Meserias said:

1) if I understand well I will need to ride it 10Km until I can set above 40kmh speed limits ?

Only on brand new wheels, with no km's on it. And you can bypass that. If you already have a total distance ridden that is higher than the requirements, just go back into your settings on your phone and bump your warp speed back up, as it will drop down to 20km/h.

And i cant help with number 2, although Seba said he didnt notice any throttling. I'm sure we'll hear more updates in the coming days/weeks

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1 hour ago, TomOnWheels said:

@Seba on my side it looks like there is no issues with speed beeps. I can hear 1st and 2nd beep I setup on the app. Also after upgrade and calibration, most of settings went back to default, and I had to modify riding profile, speed settings, even colors of lights. And yes it's absolutely fantastic how it respond now on the road ! Big change and I'm very happy with it for this 1st ride !

Good to hear that my case is isolated. I have 1st wheel alarm turned off, 2nd set to 34 km/h, 3rd to 37 km/h and tiltback to 40 km/h. I only get 3rd alarm in form of voice announcement, regardless of "Voice switch" setting. I'll try to play more with settings this weekend.

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