2.0 firmware for KS-18L/XL is available

[Seba]

56 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Can now be done with EUC world (new active wheellog fork):

 

Actually, it's announcement of update that will be rolled out next week. So just a few days more of patience

[TomOnWheels]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

You have much more patience than I. After hitting it 3 times, I gave up and realized it was WAAAY too many. I only have a few brain cells left and Id rather the beer get 'em, than remembering lights.  I just shut mine off and back on if I accidently get away from the BEST setup... light sensing, white front, brake light on rear. I guess more options is better, but not something I really cared about.

Thanks :-) Actually, it will be nice if we can set one of this mode by default via app. For me keeping white light auto on/off always on the same side at startup will be perfect, with of course red light on rear side always on and stronger when braking...

 

[FlyboyEUC]

5 hours ago, TomOnWheels said:

Not 100% sure if this is same for you guys, but this is what is going on with lights when pressing power button:

When powered on: full auto mode with night detection
1st press: rear light is white and always on, front light is off when stopped, it is lite red on if running, and strong red when braking.
2nt press: same as 1st but rear/front are reversed.
3rd press: front light is white, rear light is white, both lights are always on
4th press: all lights are off
5th press: rear light is white and always on, front light is red and off except when braking.
6th press: same as 5th but rear/front are reversed.
7th press: front light is white, rear light is white, both lights are always on
8th press: white light is always off, front light is red lite when running and red strong when braking.
9th press: back to full auto mode but without night detecton.

Mine just has 1 through 4

[Jonesq]

Does anyone else feel like the tilt-back is way smoother and less aggressive now?

Mine feels more gradual and the angling of the pedals is much less extreme.

[seage]

13 minutes ago, Jonesq said:

Does anyone else feel like the tilt-back is way smoother and less aggressive now?

Mine feels more gradual and the angling of the pedals is much less extreme.

I feel literally the opposite, haha. But then im getting tilt back just by doing a 180. 

[Asphalt]

Tested the upgrade from firmware 18-LH v1.00 to v2.00 today.

v2.00 is much stiffer than 18-LH v1.00
v2.00 has a similar feel to 18-L v1.11

18-LH v1.00 introduced some slack which initially felt foreign, however I did enjoy the soft rebound slingshot feel while carving. I think I now understand why some Gotway riders enjoy soft mode. I’ll have to experiment with riding soft mode in v2.00 to see if I can replicate the feel since v2.00 doesn’t feel as fun to carve with.

v2.00 accelerates similar to 18-LH v1.00
v2.00 accelerates better than 18-L v1.11

I don’t like the red charging light. I charge in a shared bike room and don’t like drawing any more attention to the wheel than is necessary.

The new light modes are useful, but I’d prefer to be able to set the default mode in the app and have the button just toggle the light on and off.

I still have to test the battery speed throttling characteristics before determining whether or not I’ll stick with v2.00.

[meepmeepmayer]

33 minutes ago, seage said:

I feel literally the opposite, haha. But then im getting tilt back just by doing a 180. 

Please distinguish tiltback (intentional) from pedal dipping in turns, either forwards or backwards (and unintended). You might be just a calibration away from removing your "tiltback". Somewhere here it said to do a calibration after the upgrade anyways.

[seage]

2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Please distinguish tiltback (intentional) from pedal dipping in turns, either forwards or backwards (and unintended). You might be just a calibration away from removing your "tiltback". Somewhere here it said to do a calibration after the upgrade anyways.

Sorry, I mixed up the terms. Thats my bad. I did mean pedal dipping. 

And I've been mentioning that i've calibrated many times. Over 15 at this point, haha. 2 levels and a digital level. This is fun. XD. I always seem to have these issues. 

(And actually, it forces you to calibrate right out of the upgrade. Or at least mine did. When i went to turn it on, it started the "beeps")

[.....]

1 hour ago, TomOnWheels said:

Thanks :-) Actually, it will be nice if we can set one of this mode by default via app. For me keeping white light auto on/off always on the same side at startup will be perfect, with of course red light on rear side always on and stronger when braking...

 

With the KS app, I set my lights how i like (auto headlight, brake light in rear) and that is what i get when I first power it up. Maybe im just lucky it works like that on mine. Im happy as the startup light is my favorite, so the only other mode i care about is 'all off', should i want someday. The red chargin light is cool, but i can see how it draws attention to it.

[seage]

1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

The red chargin light is cool, but i can see how it draws attention to it.

Interesting thing. I charged mine today and didn't see any lights. I wonder why. 

[.....]

3 minutes ago, seage said:

Interesting thing. I charged mine today and didn't see any lights. I wonder why. 

I just tried mine again, and when i plug it in with the wheel off, the red light shines as it charges and goes off once full. KS18L.

[RoadRunner]

47 minutes ago, seage said:

i've calibrated many times

I just did one calibration, pedals are rocksolid. 

[meepmeepmayer]

38 minutes ago, seage said:

Sorry, I mixed up the terms. Thats my bad. I did mean pedal dipping. 

And I've been mentioning that i've calibrated many times. Over 15 at this point, haha. 2 levels and a digital level. This is fun. XD. I always seem to have these issues. 

(And actually, it forces you to calibrate right out of the upgrade. Or at least mine did. When i went to turn it on, it started the "beeps")

Oops didn't read this thread. Looks like you have a susceptible board (sensor). Do you think the firmware upgrade itself did something here? Or just that calibration it made you do?

I don't think it matters that a calibration is perfectly level. You just have to somehow coax the seonsor into behaving. Maybe an intentionally bad calibration that is off as bad as you can get it? So next time you calibrate "right", the difference is big enough so maybe the sensor decides to work then?

[RoadRunner]

Made my test ride today and i had some big fun.

That thing shoots off like a rocket, i was really blown away how much power i had to play with.

I had a  big fat smile on my face all day long. 

Since i got the 16X i only rode the 18XL every once in a while when i wanted to smoothly cruise a little because i like the power and quickness of the 16X more.

But now i would say it’s got as much acceleration power as my 16X, really amazing.

And sometimes i thought there is something wrong with the wheel.

While riding on tarmac i was hearing a strange noise that i never heard before. 

But i figured out it was just the noise from the tire that i couldn’t hear before because of the high pitch whine. 

So i am really happy to have a new amazing wheel, thanks Kingsong. 

And hey @Mike Sacristanhope you and Monika will try out the 2.00 XL from Simon, you will love it.

[Marty Backe]

7 hours ago, travsformation said:

For anyone having problems upgrading the firmware, perhaps an older version of the KS app might work. Here's 3.1.8: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i03ccdogqpeu5r3/Kingsong_3.1.8.apk?dl=0

I've been using the 3.1.8 version forever (the later version crashes). I couldn't upgrade with it a couple of days ago but I haven't had a chance to try again. Good to know that 3.1.8 worked for you (and presumably for me too).

[Marty Backe]

8 hours ago, Flyboy10 said:

I just upgraded my 14S to v2.00 and it is silent and does the whole light thing! This is amazing!

Wait, 2.0 works with non-KS18XL wheels. That would imply that you could install it on the KS16X too?

Doesn't every KS wheel have it's own firmware and version of said firmware?

[Chriull]

16 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Doesn't every KS wheel have it's own firmware and version of said firmware?

Just tried it some ours ago - KS16S still needs some time. Is by now still at 1.09

[.....]

28 minutes ago, RoadRunner said:

Made my test ride today and i had some big fun.

That thing shoots off like a rocket, i was really blown away how much power i had to play with.

I had a  big fat smile on my face all day long. 

Since i got the 16X i only rode the 18XL every once in a while when i wanted to smoothly cruise a little because i like the power and quickness of the 16X more.

But now i would say it’s got as much acceleration power as my 16X, really amazing.

And sometimes i thought there is something wrong with the wheel.

While riding on tarmac i was hearing a strange noise that i never heard before. 

But i figured out it was just the noise from the tire that i couldn’t hear before because of the high pitch whine. 

So i am really happy to have a new amazing wheel, thanks Kingsong. 

And hey @Mike Sacristanhope you and Monika will try out the 2.00 XL from Simon, you will love it.

I agree with the acceleration change. For the first time since riding my wheel, I can lean into the incline of my street (while already moving) and get the surge of speed that I would expect. Its hard to explain accurately. I couldnt complain before, as it did gather speed, but now its more like a downshift on the motorcycle, rather than just an opening of the throttle. I didnt notice an increase much from dead stop, but my passing gear just feels right. I can't keep myself from yelling "ZOOOM", as I lean into it. I am very pleased and tomorrow calls for no rain! I also could hear my tire rolling noises and other things, that I hadnt before. Only downside is that my skill in accelerating now FAR exceeds my turning and stopping skillz. Priorities tho, right?

Edited January 12, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[seage]

54 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Oops didn't read this thread. Looks like you have a susceptible board (sensor). Do you think the firmware upgrade itself did something here? Or just that calibration it made you do?

I don't think it matters that a calibration is perfectly level. You just have to somehow coax the seonsor into behaving. Maybe an intentionally bad calibration that is off as bad as you can get it? So next time you calibrate "right", the difference is big enough so maybe the sensor decides to work then?

Well, my wheel has glitched out with firmware updates before. There was a while where I couldnt stay connected to my wheel via bluetooth and i was convinced it was a hardware issue. Then I got the engineer app and rolled it back, then reinstalled the firmware and it never disconnected again. 

Im noticing that my wheel doesnt have all the same features as others are mentioning in here. Like all of the light settings, i have about 4 of the ones mentioned. And the red light being on during charging. It doesnt turn on with my original charger or fast charger. 

I still have the engineer app, and what I did the other day was installed that version of 2.00, but what I think i'll try is rolling back to 1.13 or whatever the last one was. Then reinstalling the official 2.00 and hoping that maybe that will solve the issues i'm having. I'll also try the super bad calibration too. I tried one where I set it perfectly level, and when turned it on and off, it was tilting back by about 3 degrees or so, so theres something up for sure, but im gonna assume its a faulty firmware installation. 

[travsformation]

I've put 50 km on my 18XL since the FW upgrade, and here are a few observations:

The (freakin') lights: It seems like they've broadened the pre-2.0, direction-dependent auto/on/off and turned it into a myriad of options (of debatable usefulness). I haven't had (and don't foresee having) the patience of going through them taking notes, like @TomOnWheels did, but the general gist seems to be that you can set the light mode to auto (sensor-dependent), on (always) and off (rear light only) with either the front or the back "defined as the front". Plus, we get the bonus "piss off everyone around you" mode (headlight on, front and back). I'm not sure what KS was thinking, the lights were fine as they were IMHO...and if any changes were to be made, I can think of more useful options, such as headlight on only when in motion and off when static, or different brightness intensities. Then again, I think a great deal of this is down to bugs, as different people appear to have different modes (I only have 1-4, like @Flyboy10). Perhaps it affects different batches in different ways? What is good to know is that this is just an issue when cycling through them with the power button. Using EUC World, you can switch them on and off the same as always either with the defined screen-tap options, a Flic button or your connected watch.

Turning has me a bit puzzled. Tight turns feel easier, while high-speed ones feel wobblier. At one point, I was aggressively avoiding potholes on a horribly maintained stretch of road, and the wheel turned so swiftly I almost went flying. It feels like it needs much less input to turn the same amount, so my usual riding style was too much and I found myself having to moderate the effort I put into turning to achieve the same results. I didn't stop to analyze the specifics and the reasons (I was having too much fun), but paired with the (perceived) instability when turning at higher speeds, I wouldn't rule out a touch of pedal dipping (wheel was calibrated after upgrade). Will have to do more testing tomorrow.

Acceleration/braking: It's been said quite a few times, but this really does feel like a different wheel. I think I can now understand why (some) 16X users have been face-planting (I'm not trying to revive that discussion or bring it to this thread), in the sense that the torque delivery is so effortless that it feels like the wheel is much more powerful (than it used to be, in this case), making it easy to inadvertently push it more than one might usually do/should. That sense of "limitless torque" can lead to dangerous situations...

My last test ride was on the cautious side, not sure whether I could trust the new FW; today I was in a playful mood and I just rode, and found myself accelerating much harder than I usually would (novelty factor?), and riding much faster too. Feet-only acceleration (no leaning) is impressively responsive, and when leaning...wow! I got a couple of (EUC World) current alarms (it's set to 20A sustained, 35A peak) during the ride, which I've only had once since I got the wheel almost a year ago. That says something...

In terms of speed, I was just enjoying the ride (and acceleration ) and wasn't aiming for high speeds, but soon found myself hitting my 45 km/h speed alarm...I rarely go over 40 km/h, but today I found myself hitting the 40 km/h mark more than 20 times in an hour, none of those times on purpose. I think it has to do with muscle memory/habit: it usually takes much longer to build up that speed, but now, you're there in no time and with no effort. This reminded me enormously of comments about how fast top speed is achieved with the 16X. Not only did I (accidentally) end up riding faster than I usually do, but today I broke a new record for my highest average speed...and I wasn't trying to. Pairing that with the torque, I think this upgrade (or rather, how the wheel is ridden after upgrading) should be approached with caution. I'm not trying to put unfounded fear into anyone, but there are a lot of parallels to be drawn with the 16X, which suggests to me that it might be wise to approach the wheel (post-upgrade) in a similar way to the 16X, taking into account the same safety precautions until the FW is proven to be reliable. It's just my opinion, but I think that doing so could potentially prevent some unnecessary faceplants and injuries...

I hate to say this, but I think @Aneta might have a point . It's very easy to get carried away by the "wow, a simple FW upgrade turned my 18XL into a much snappier wheel" and not do any second guessing, but it might actually be wise to stop and question what was sacrificed in order to achieve this. There's always a compromise somewhere...

If I were to base my hypotheses on KS's pre-16X safety record only, I'd assume this power delivery upgrade was very carefully considered and there's sufficient safety margin to push the wheel as much as you want, as Daddy-Kingsong's got you covered and there's nothing to worry about. But with the rushed 16X release and the whole torque delivery debacle, and how much this upgrade seems to echo the 16X's torque delivery...I think I'm going to approach this with caution. The 16X might not be an exception, but the milestone that marked a new approach for KS. This is just me rambling, but I don't think it's entirely nonsensical and...well, I enjoy having all my limbs, so I'm going to base my approach on that assumption and let FW 2.0 earn my trust (the funky light bugs aren't particularly confidence-inspiring) as opposed to making unfounded safety assumptions that might cost me my teeth

As a final note to this "Holy Wall of Text" (as Meep would put it), I'm aware this post might spark some controversy, and am hoping it won't start a shitstorm (Or in other words, please, EUC Gods, don't let the curse of the 16X spread to the 18-inchers!). So I'd like to clarify that everything I've said is 100% subjective, backed by nothing but my own experience (50ish km worth of riding on this FW), and that if I do push the wheel too hard and end up face-planting, I don't intend to blame the wheel nor the firmware: I'm ultimately responsible for my own safety and how I approach and adapt to the wheel. Or in other words, I'm not pointing fingers, making claims or trying to sound any unnecessary alarms. I love this upgrade and am enjoying the wheel enormously...there's no way I'd go back to 1.12!

All I'm saying is proceed with caution and ride safely!

Edited January 12, 2020 by travsformation

[FlyboyEUC]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Wait, 2.0 works with non-KS18XL wheels. That would imply that you could install it on the KS16X too?

Doesn't every KS wheel have it's own firmware and version of said firmware?

According to the KS Soft Tuner app, the 2.00 firmware is available on 14D, 14SMD, 16S, 18L, 18LH , and 18S. 

[FlyboyEUC]

3 hours ago, travsformation said:

until the FW is proven to be reliable

For what it is worth, when my 18 XL 2200w conversion had v1.00 on it, It felt like a 16X. Above 25 mph I could pedal dip very easily on demand by flicking my toes. Scary stuff. Now with v2.00 I can't recreate it, I've tried. For me, I've tested my wheel over potholes at 30 mph and it is back to, if not better than, my 2000w v1.13 in terms of available power at top speed. Also, when others have cutouts has there been any warning? When I lean hard on my KS wheels they beep crazy fast but never cutout. I've heard this on firmware v1.10, 1.11, 1.12, and 2.00.  Once I hear those beeps I freak out and stand up straight. coming home from work on friday I heard 2 or 3 rounds of those crazy fast beeps (I will admit there was a crowd staring at me so I was hot-dogging it @Marty Backe ). I feel confident with v2.00 and personally I'm a fan of the lights. My wife and I were thinking why have both the front and rear lights on and we thought, "well, what if the wheel behind you didn't have a light? You could share yours!"  I think another cool idea with the two headlights would be a video of @Rama Douglas flowing with his wheel in the dark with some fog doing the penny trick or similar tricks that Mitch and SideStreetReny does.

Side note: I heard a lot of comments during Marty's LA tour how crazy I was for taking my 18XL off stairs, jumps, and going very fast. It is a very capable wheel, especially off road. When commuting, I ride above 25 mph, always. As I said in another thread, I ride (and drive) with purpose. Not trying to brag but I want others to know that it is a powerful wheel.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Flyboy10 said:

According to the KS Soft Tuner app, the 2.00 firmware is available on 14D, 14SMD, 16S, 18L, 18LH , and 18S. 

Very interesting. And of course it's also available for 18XL 

[FlyboyEUC]

14 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Very interesting. And of course it's also available for 18XL 

Firmware speaking, the 18LH is the XL. Just like my 14s is actually referred to as a 14d. I have no clue what the 14smd is.... Maybe the new 2020 wheel???   More realistically it is probably the S, D, and M versions all put together. Interesting that the 16x didn't get a firmware upgrade. It is now the loudest KS wheel on the market. I need to find a 16s and upgrade it to see if that wheel goes silent also.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Flyboy10

[Aneta]

So, a question for those who ride both 18L/XL and MSX/Nikola: did the update obliterate Gotway's most powerful wheels, or made them on the same level, or inched KS closer to GW, but still behind? Genuinely curious mind here.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Aneta