2.0 firmware for KS-18L/XL is available

[Jens Ronnedal]

I just realized what was wrong. I've set a password for my wheel in the Kingsong app. Doesn't seem like the DB-app is able to update the firmware while a password is set so I removed the password. Now the update is running.

[Jens Ronnedal]

I was hoping for better settings for head and tail light. But Kingsong has solved one problem and created some new ones.

They still haven't solved the problem with the wheel always going back to automatic when I turn it off and then on again. There is a setting in the DB-app supposing to let you chose to not have automated headlight, but it doesn't change anything that I notice.

The problem solved is the very irritating automation of head light always being in the moving direction. Who ever came up with that idea in the first place? But note that the automated preset is still the same. You have to switch setting every time to get rid of it.

New problem is that tail light only seem to be activated by the light sensor. Meaning if anyone with a headlight is tailing you, your tail light will be off. So it will only be on if no one is behind you. And when is that useful? So if you want tail light from now on you will have to put some tape or something over the light sensor.

In recent firmwares I had to push the power button 2 times to turn off the lights every time I turned on the wheel. Now the lights off setting is moved back to 4th setting. So even more pushing buttons because of the wheel not returning to last setting after reboot.

My only hope is for the DB-app to be able to solve problems like these since Kingsong seem to like things just the way they are.

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, Jens Ronnedal said:

An hour later,..still stuck at 0%.

Pfff... Theoretically KS updates should be restartable ...

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

So they were a bit hesitant and wanted to wait first to see what others report.

Two local riders updated theirs’ (Aug-2019, 2018) on friday, both riding daily, no mentions of issues as long as you do a proper perfectly-level-in-all-directions calibration. The wheel will enter calibration mode automatically when the calibration is complete.

I must say that the new hard mode makes the 18XL much more to my liking. It still has liveliness from an MSX perspective, but it’s properly hard whenever you need it to be. Very nice behaviour, and I even took and grab-tilt-pushed it through thick slushy dirt and mud. It holds it’s own.

 

Quote

Also... Simon got soft pedals yesterday at half battery and 30 kmh.

That sounds really strange. Was Simon the tall dark haired guy, and a fairly new rider? Do you think it could be just a regular overlean? No alarms before the wheel went soft?

Edited January 13, 2020 by mrelwood

[Mike Sacristan]

26 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

That sounds really strange. Was Simon the tall dark haired guy, and a fairly new rider? Do you think it could be just a regular overlean? No alarms before the wheel went soft?

He was a bit shaken afterwards so I will get all the details and start a new thread. I guess it was just a regular overlean.

[travsformation]

I put an extra 40 km on FW 2.0 yesterday, and am really pleased with this upgrade. The 16X-style torque delivery really is nice to have, and so far, I'm not getting the impression it comes at the expense of safety, at least for my weight (75 kg with full gear & backpack). What a joy to ride! My face is sore from so much smiling!

Even if you're not an aggressive rider, it's great to have all that power on demand at any time! And for hill climbs...what a treat! There's a long, sustained road leading out of town that usually gives me a little grief as it steepens (I have to grip the wheel, really push it forward, and be careful to prevent the wobbles that come with leaning forward so hard while standing on your toes), and it flew up it as if it were flat. I got a current alarm 3/4 of the way up and had to ease off. Looking at the graph later, it turns out I was zooming up it at 38 km/h...Unheard of!

The next challenge was when the beach promenade came to an end and I had to do a big circle through suburbia to where it continues. I found a shortcut but was initially hesitant:

But I thought "what the hell!" There's a bit of a curb at the bottom, so initial speed was near stand-still, and WOW, I didn't even struggle to get to the top! I am really impressed! I can't wait to take this off-road and tackle the route I had to give up on on FW 1.12!

I'm still not used to how fast it picks up speed and keep finding myself going faster than I usually do, but that's not precisely a complaint

I still have my reserves regarding how it would handle aggressive acceleration when riding above 45 km/h, but this is proving very solid, so maybe I shouldn't. Maybe I'm just biased because I think brusque acceleration near top speed is never a wise idea, no matter what wheel you're riding/FW you're using. Still, bearing in mind how fast the wheel now reaches max. speed, I think it's wise to set a software alarm (I use EUC World, does DB allow this too?) to 45 km/h, so you're aware you're in "careful with overleaning" territory. I'd actually advise temporarily setting speed alarms to anyone just trying out this FW; if you don't usually ride faster than 30 km/h, set it to 32 or 33 km/h, or 37-38 km/h if you generally don't go past 35. You might be surprised at how often they're triggered, and I think it's a good way to stay safe until you get used to the "nitrous oxide" effect

As to range, I didn't hot-dog it (as much) yesterday and find battery drain to be pretty much the same as in 1.12.

And on the "odd" turning behavior that had me puzzled (easier tight, low-speed turns and wobblier high-speed ones, as well as having to moderate my input to turn the same amount), I actually think it has to do with torque, as now that I'm used to the wheel, I'm no longer having such issues. With FW 1.12 I think I was providing involuntary acceleration input while turning that either wasn't being registered by the wheel, or didn't yield a noticeable increase in power output; with 2.0 being as torquey as it is, it actually responds to that involuntary input, so it accelerates more while turning, making tight turns seem faster/easier,  and longer ones (where it's hard to precisely maintain throttle at the same amount throughout the entire curve), wobblier, as small variations in pressure result in small accelerations that destabilize you. Does that make sense to anyone else but me? 

In any case, no problems of that sort anymore

My advice to anyone who hasn't ridden a 16X, and is upgrading to this FW: approach 2.0 more like you would a new wheel than a FW upgrade

Edited January 13, 2020 by travsformation

[FlyboyEUC]

7 hours ago, Jens Ronnedal said:

New problem is that tail light only seem to be activated by the light sensor. Meaning if anyone with a headlight is tailing you, your tail light will be off. So it will only be on if no one is behind you. And when is that useful? So if you want tail light from now on you will have to put some tape or something over the light sensor.

I ride every day in the dark when I commute. The car head lights is only a issue if you don't tell the wheel to keep the headlight on always (automatic mode). This is done by pressing the power button quickly. To re-iterate, I turn the wheel on then quickly press the power button. The front light is now permanently on. No tape over the sensor is necessary. Does that solve your issue?

[NYCeuc123]

Hey guys!

Brand new rider here.

I got the 18XL in July but hadn't had the chance to ride it much.

Actually still learning to ride... Never took it out on the street yet... I know... Life got in the way 

Anyway, I've been following this whole motor upgrade thing here and I wanted to get your opinions from people who have ridden both versions.

At this point, with the 2.0 firmware out, would you say that upgrading the motor from 2000W to 2200W is worth $150 plus the time and effort to swap it?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Gwila]

I upgraded from 1.07 to 2.0 just now. Took about 5 minutes from the time I pressed upgrade until it was complete. 
I used the kingsong app though. 
 

looking forward to a ride to see the difference! 

[mrelwood]

 

44 minutes ago, NYCeuc123 said:

At this point, with the 2.0 firmware out, would you say that upgrading the motor from 2000W to 2200W is worth $150 plus the time and effort to swap it?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!

I haven’t had the chance to try the 2200W version, but based on the fw 2.0 on the 2000W version and what I’ve read on these few threads here: No, I don’t think it would be worth it. Especially for you at your beginner stages. You already have one of the best and most reliable top wheels on the market!

And since the 2200W motor is a new one that has had some issues, I would put the reliable track record of the 2000W 18XL far far ahead of any minor performance upgrades that you would only possibly notice some six months from now.

[Paul2579]

8 hours ago, Jens Ronnedal said:

New problem is that tail light only seem to be activated by the light sensor. Meaning if anyone with a headlight is tailing you, your tail light will be off. So it will only be on if no one is behind you. And when is that useful? So if you want tail light from now on you will have to put some tape or something over the light sensor.

I have this same problem. For some reason the rear light is now always tied to the light sensor, even when the front light is set to "on."  Some experimenting with tape seems to prove this out.  Also, even with the tape, the red light is dim, except when the wheel approaches a stop--then it flashes brightly for  second before going dim again.  This is kind of a bummer, as it's a safety issue.  (The only other choice to have a solid light in the back is to have two white lights on both sides fully on?  What a weird setting, and also dangerous in it's own way.)

Everything except the lights is great.

[Paul2579]

1 hour ago, Flyboy10 said:

I ride every day in the dark when I commute. The car head lights is only a issue if you don't tell the wheel to keep the headlight on always (automatic mode). This is done by pressing the power button quickly. To re-iterate, I turn the wheel on then quickly press the power button. The front light is now permanently on. No tape over the sensor is necessary. Does that solve your issue?

On my unit at least the quick press (which previously did the same thing as turning the night lights "on" in the app) no longer works the same.  Yes, it cycles through several different iterations of lights (some of them weird, like two white lights front and back, and white/red strobe), but the selection that used to be "on" now turns the front light on unidirectionally, while the red/back light is subject to the the whims of the light sensor.  The red/back light is also dimmer for whatever reason in a manner that seems not to be connected to the light sensor. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Paul2579

[seage]

6 minutes ago, Paul2579 said:

On my unit at least the quick press (which previously did the same thing as turning the night lights "on" in the app) no longer works the same.  Yes, it cycles through several different iterations of lights (some of them weird, like two white lights front and back, and white/red strobe), but the selection that used to be "on" now turns the front light on unidirectionally, while the red/back light is subject to the the whims of the light sensor.  The red/back light is also dimmer for whatever reason in a manner that seems not to be connected to the light sensor. 

Thats odd. On my wheel, if i tap it once, it turns the headline on and the back stays a brake. I have the other modes, but my "All off" feature from my first upgrade, is now missing, lmao. Not sure how they managed this, but whatever. But yes, when its first turned on, it is back and front with the sensor, but one press is the front light always on, a second press is the back light always on. 

[Paul2579]

1 minute ago, seage said:

Thats odd. On my wheel, if i tap it once, it turns the headline on and the back stays a brake. I have the other modes, but my "All off" feature from my first upgrade, is now missing, lmao. Not sure how they managed this, but whatever. But yes, when its first turned on, it is back and front with the sensor, but one press is the front light always on, a second press is the back light always on. 

Would you mind shining a light on the light sensor while rolling forward and seeing if the red/back light turns off?   

[Jens Ronnedal]

2 hours ago, Flyboy10 said:

I ride every day in the dark when I commute. The car head lights is only a issue if you don't tell the wheel to keep the headlight on always (automatic mode). This is done by pressing the power button quickly. To re-iterate, I turn the wheel on then quickly press the power button. The front light is now permanently on. No tape over the sensor is necessary. Does that solve your issue?

I’ve noticed. But the tail light on my wheel will shut off if someone is behind me?

[Jens Ronnedal]

24 minutes ago, Paul2579 said:

I have this same problem. For some reason the rear light is now always tied to the light sensor, even when the front light is set to "on."  Some experimenting with tape seems to prove this out.  Also, even with the tape, the red light is dim, except when the wheel approaches a stop--then it flashes brightly for  second before going dim again.  This is kind of a bummer, as it's a safety issue.  (The only other choice to have a solid light in the back is to have two white lights on both sides fully on?  What a weird setting, and also dangerous in it's own way.)

Everything except the lights is great.

Yeah, very strange. Can only hope for another update.

But to ride the wheel with the 2.00 FW was really nice. Only problem,..it’s much easier to go really fast.

[Unventor]

Well here goes, I got the fw2.0 on my KS18L 1st batch today. No joy doing the update on Samsung 10e with android 10 and KSapp ver3. 20. 

But though a Ipad from work I got installed on first try. I had a little issue about calibrating but more about this later. 

At this stage I can't help feeling a little disappointed. The 1.13 was a huge improvement IMHO. But fw2. 0 feels buggy to me. My headlight and readlight is now locked in position as it it is not omnidirectional anymore. I can't see to get both lamps forced on.  With the dark morning and evening time I commute this not good at all. 

So I did a 12km ride. My usual (more or less) shopping ride from work to shop to home. I think I need to redo the calibration as it feels a little wavy in the ride. This is felt the most when turning at low speeds. I think this can be down to poor calibration. 

Now I had some issues with accessing speed setting but I can't tell you but it got sorted out after restarting different euc apps. 

I can only say I see KS releasing a 2.01 very soon as it feels buggy to me, or it could be due to my wheel, or just me, I don't know. 

The good part is the wheel is rideable still, I did the ride at top speed of 31ish kmh (my normal cruising speed these days) with an avedage of 22kmh shopping time included. 

So about the calibration, I did that on a staircase step resting the pedal arm but I might have moved the wheel slightly as it slide on the wooden step. 1st try made a burnout wheel so people thought I had set something on fire..... 

(Spotify playing this as I left the shop) 

Tomorrow is going to be a heavy rainy morning so I take the V10f the 2km to work.

I guess the unified fw works better with newer batches of KS18L/XL. 

Also I can't calibrate lift sensor anymore as seen on models with the digital lift sensor system. So I can't help wondering if someone are feeding this back to KS. @Jason McNeil? You seem to have the most impact on KS these days. 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Unventor

[seage]

6 minutes ago, Unventor said:

My headlight and readlight is now locked in position as it it is not omnidirectional anymore.

Its like a party bag with light settings. Every single rollback and reupdate i've done to 2.00 has given me different light settings! LOL. Its so weird.

7 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I think I need to redo the calibration as it feels a little wavy in the ride. This is felt the most when turning at low speeds. I think this can be down to poor calibration. 

Yeppp, this is what I felt! I'm not sure if you saw my thread or my last video I posted in here, but I think they've opted to a different style of aggressive leveling. So it will counter tilt if your level isnt perfectly 0 degrees. If you have a forward or backwards tip, depending on the angle of the surface, your pedals will tilt to around the same degree the opposite direction. This is especially noticeable in turns. Kinda glad someones feeling the things I've mentioned. Ive managed to finally get a perfect calibration, but I havent tested it outside. But just from turning inside, that dip is mostly gone.

[seage]

32 minutes ago, Paul2579 said:

Would you mind shining a light on the light sensor while rolling forward and seeing if the red/back light turns off?   

Just went down and did a test. You were right. The red light does turn off when light hits the sensor, lmao....

2.01, here we come!

[travsformation]

12 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I can only say I see KS releasing a 2.01 very soon as it feels buggy to me

Yeah, there are a lot of bugs to be ironed out, especially in terms of the lights...

13 minutes ago, Unventor said:

My headlight and readlight is now locked in position as it it is not omnidirectional anymore. I can't see to get both lamps forced on.

Not omnidirectional, but working?

14 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I guess the unified fw works better with newer batches of KS18L/XL. 

Also I can't calibrate lift sensor anymore as seen on models with the digital lift sensor system.

Yeah, I think us 1st batch riders have been kind of excluded in this update. They've totally removed lift sensor calibration, which is actually important on our 1st batch, pressure-based sensors...

 

[travsformation]

7 minutes ago, seage said:

Just went down and did a test. You were right. The red light does turn off when light hits the sensor, lmao....

I've never understood the point of the sensor...it already seemed unreliable to me when I first received my 1st-batch 18XL. A direct source of light above it would trigger the sensor to switch off the headlight, making the pothole 3m in front of me (and not illuminated by the lamp post) "invisible". I like my headlight either on or off, and for me to be the only one making that decision, not the wheel. I think it was day 2 of owning the wheel when I put a little circle of black duct tape over the sensor. End of problem.

And now that it can be switched on and off from my phone, watch or Flic, there's even less need (if there ever was one) for a light sensor...

But that's just me. For people who use it, the rear light going off when light hits the sensor is dangerous business. KS should fix this SOON

Edited January 13, 2020 by travsformation

[Paul2579]

18 minutes ago, travsformation said:

But that's just me. For people who use it, the rear light going off when light hits the sensor is dangerous business. KS should fix this SOON

I never used the light sensor either.  But now I can’t get away from it with 2.0.  The best I can do is to tape it, which I don’t feel works perfectly well.  Maybe I need to get some better tape...

Edited January 13, 2020 by Paul2579

[Unventor]

26 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I've never understood the point of the sensor...it already seemed unreliable to me when I first received my 1st-batch 18XL.

Well it is kind of smart enough, but it works so much better on the KS16X. 

As an example, you are riding daylight but enters a tunnel or go under a bridge or is a shadow side on a narrow side road.  

The bad side is light you say a lamppost or car can turn off your light. On the KS16X it only dims it as it have different strength combined winh nead wide beam and the narrow long beam. 

[.....]

1 hour ago, travsformation said:

Yeah, I think us 1st batch riders have been kind of excluded in this update. They've totally removed lift sensor calibration, which is actually important on our 1st batch, pressure-based sensors...

 

I thought the same. Mine must be first batch, as I just had simple pressure sensors on bars, when i upgraded trolley. Luckily it works great with no calibrating, but i surely fear it IS just luck and maybe not reliably repeatable, should anything change. Not exactly sure how those sensor work and too lazy to look it up and learn, but experience has shown me that very simple things sometimes need calibrating, as manufacturing tolerances differ, and age takes its toll.

 

What a can of worms the lighting is opening. I didnt pay much attention to it, so I can't make complaints. Mine seems to have the same default as it used to: Headlight auto with red always on and brighter under braking. Lights swap side direction dependant. I need to go for a night ride soon, to see if it bothers me or not. It is VERY dark out here in the country, a little scared to float the road at 1am, as tis not a good idea to freak out the local farmers with wierd moving lights.

I rode a wet cowpie field today and it really pushed thru with less problem than last week. It is more important to set my REALISTIC speed warning now, as it is much easier to inadvertantly go faster than you realize.

I just hope KS keeps it up for us. The lighting may be a small fiasco, perhaps theres a few more bugs to work out, but all in all, Im going to focus on the improvements. By this summer, I fear I may walk very little and ride aimlessly everywhere. Sieze the day!!!      

NYCEuc123: If it aint broke, dont fix it! I am new and the 18L with stock motor is MORE than enough oompf. I wouldnt suspect that those of us not constantly hitting the upper 90% of performance ability, would also NEVER utilize the 10% moto size increase. 20mph seems damn fast when youre just standing there. As a sportbike rider, it still seems fast.  WElcome to the club, first post and derail, double whammy. Get a cover for yours if you havent. I am convinced it is cheaper than the platic I would have already broken, without it.

Edited January 13, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[NYCeuc123]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 

I haven’t had the chance to try the 2200W version, but based on the fw 2.0 on the 2000W version and what I’ve read on these few threads here: No, I don’t think it would be worth it. Especially for you at your beginner stages. You already have one of the best and most reliable top wheels on the market!

And since the 2200W motor is a new one that has had some issues, I would put the reliable track record of the 2000W 18XL far far ahead of any minor performance upgrades that you would only possibly notice some six months from now.

 

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I thought the same. Mine must be first batch, as I just had simple pressure sensors on bars, when i upgraded trolley. Luckily it works great with no calibrating, but i surely fear it IS just luck and maybe not reliably repeatable, should anything change. Not exactly sure how those sensor work and too lazy to look it up and learn, but experience has shown me that very simple things sometimes need calibrating, as manufacturing tolerances differ, and age takes its toll.

 

What a can of worms the lighting is opening. I didnt pay much attention to it, so I can't make complaints. Mine seems to have the same default as it used to: Headlight auto with red always on and brighter under braking. Lights swap side direction dependant. I need to go for a night ride soon, to see if it bothers me or not. It is VERY dark out here in the country, a little scared to float the road at 1am, as tis not a good idea to freak out the local farmers with wierd moving lights.

I rode a wet cowpie field today and it really pushed thru with less problem than last week. It is more important to set my REALISTIC speed warning now, as it is much easier to inadvertantly go faster than you realize.

I just hope KS keeps it up for us. The lighting may be a small fiasco, perhaps theres a few more bugs to work out, but all in all, Im going to focus on the improvements. By this summer, I fear I may walk very little and ride aimlessly everywhere. Sieze the day!!!      

NYCEuc123: If it aint broke, dont fix it! I am new and the 18L with stock motor is MORE than enough oompf. I wouldnt suspect that those of us not constantly hitting the upper 90% of performance ability, would also NEVER utilize the 10% moto size increase. 20mph seems damn fast when youre just standing there. As a sportbike rider, it still seems fast.  WElcome to the club, first post and derail, double whammy. Get a cover for yours if you havent. I am convinced it is cheaper than the platic I would have already broken, without it.

@Mrelwood and @ShanesPlanet:  You guys make a lot of sense. I think I'll just chill for now and I can always upgrade later. Thanks for the help.

By the way, I just flashed FW2.0 and it reset my damn speed settings!  Does anyone remember how to max those out?