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Seba

2.0 firmware for KS-18L/XL is available

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Hi,

I'm happy to announce that there is new firmware available for KS-18L/XL :) And there is several nice surprises accompanied with this release, but... try yourself. I'm very curious about your experiences :)

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I’m sure people are a bit wary to update without being sure that...

The low battery speed throttling is still the same, starting at 25%, and not 50% for example??

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I love updates, jumping right in 👌🏻

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1 hour ago, Seba said:

Hi,

I'm happy to announce that there is new firmware available for KS-18L/XL :) And there is several nice surprises accompanied with this release, but... try yourself. I'm very curious about your experiences :)

Update done, calibration done, will test in on the road tomorrow morning ;-)

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Funny thing is that today while on the road I was thinking "why KS is not adding a possibility to fix witch side of the wheel is front and which rear, from the point of view of lights..." And guess what it seems to be done ! Now when you press power button you have much more options, and not only on/off/auto. There is now a possibility to keep red light on the rear side and white light on front side of the wheel. This is cool because before, moving your wheel just a little bit to back direction was instantly making people behind me blind...

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Is there a list of all the changes and improvements?

I’ll maybe update and try this weekend if others have good experiences. The previous update was all very good. 

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2 minutes ago, Seba said:

I'm not sure if this is fully intentional. As you probably noticed, you can get both lights white and both red. Why? I don't know. But it's not enough. Just turn blinking on and you'll see that light is alternating white and red. Again, I don't think it makes sense.

Please also verify if your beeps are intact. When testing 1.14 I noticed that even if I had set beeps instead of voice and my speed limits was set to 34 km/h 2nd alarm, it never sounded. I got 3rd alarm but not in form of beep but as a voice "Please decelerate", even if I had voice off...

But rest is just perfect. I love the new dynamics and how wheel handles. A great advance from already nice 1.13 :) Not mentioning that this constant PWM noise is now gone! Gone! Without any hardware changes! With just the old, good 2000 W motor.

Will give it a try tomorrow morning ! Yes I noticed two whites or to reds, but I was thinking that this is just an optional mode from someone who may need/like it. Also I had to switch off voice because after upgrade it turned on. Too bad if the 1st/2nd beeps are not working anymore, it was an important for me as it was keeping me aware of actual speed and eventually also alerting pedestrians... Also did you notice that trolley calibration button is not working anymore ? It looks like it auto-calibrate now....  Also motor is silent now !

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I tried to get the update but it just sits there when I try. Either due to bandwidth/load issue or something I have forgotten. 

I had it laying on it side when initiating the update process. 

As of update info this info KS has given:Screenshot_20200109-221940_Kingsong.thumb.jpg.6eb13ce8b9ede48bac294070875e3393.jpg

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2 minutes ago, TomOnWheels said:

Too bad if the 1st/2nd beeps are not working anymore, it was an important for me as it was keeping me aware of actual speed

I was referring to my experiences from 1.14 testing firmware. Maybe they fixed it in 2.00, I'll also be able to test it tomorrow. But as I always ride with alarms from EUC World in my Sena helmet BT comm set, so this is not a major problem. Anyway, it's always good to have a backup and for sure it's important for other KS users.

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I wonder about these handling improvements in 1.13 and 2.0 - are they improvements on top of what was real "give it all", "state of the art" at the time, or they are relaxation of intentional conservative "throttling down" of the earlier versions of firmware? In other words, was firmware before 1.13 and 2.0 giving you 100% of system power as was achievable at that time, and 1.13 increased it by, say, 10%, and 2.0 increased it 10% more, due to better algorithm found; or was the old firmware simply giving you (intentionally) only 80% of system capability (for safety reasons? to collect usage statistics that it doesn't cause too many wipeouts/injuries?), but when they got more confident in safety, they simply relaxed some of this choking in the newer firmware?  

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Updated mine to 2.0 just now. Everything seems fine so far, EXCEPT my wheel speed is now down to factory slow and it wont accept the EARNED increases due to mileage. I tried darknessbot and cant find the speed setting on it anymore either. Time to go ride a few minutes. I will be uber pissed if im back down to slow as h*ll, just as i got to enjoying about 18mph.

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I'm curious about how things work and what's happening in the world of hoverwheels across all models. I'd love to buy ALL wheels to see for myself, but only have money to buy one wheel. So, I'm curious what's really happening with these FW updates, and if the handling improvements are real or we're being tricked into thinking that they are real by relaxing artificial restrictions. Basically, the question is: "Marketing BS or Real Thing?"

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14 minutes ago, Aneta said:

I wonder about these handling improvements in 1.13 and 2.0 - are they improvements on top of what was real "give it all", "state of the art" at the time, or they are relaxation of intentional conservative "throttling down" of the earlier versions of firmware? In other words, was firmware before 1.13 and 2.0 giving you 100% of system power as was achievable at that time, and 1.13 increased it by, say, 10%, and 2.0 increased it 10% more, due to better algorithm found; or was the old firmware simply giving you (intentionally) only 80% of system capability (for safety reasons? to collect usage statistics that it doesn't cause too many wipeouts/injuries?), but when they got more confident in safety, they simply relaxed some of this choking in the newer firmware?  

EUC acceleration is not so much about power. It’s about how it feels. If you don’t face plant you don’t use all the available power. 
1.13 felt like an improvement in how it reacts and how easy it was to accelerate. Maybe a hint of artificial feel before you get used to it. Like it knows you are accelerating and it helps you a bit. I don’t know how to explain it better. Earlier felt stiffer, more like MSX. But it’s not just simply pedal softness. 
Interesting to see how 2.0 does it. 

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9 minutes ago, Aneta said:

or we're being tricked into thinking that they are real

I’d be just fine with that. It’s all about how it feels. If you are measuring the acceleration with a timer you’d better be wearing all the protection to find the limit anyway. 

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7 minutes ago, Aneta said:

I'm curious about how things work and what's happening in the world of hoverwheels across all models. I'd love to buy ALL wheels to see for myself, but only have money to buy one wheel. So, I'm curious what's really happening with these FW updates, and if the handling improvements are real or we're being tricked into thinking that they are real by relaxing artificial restrictions. Basically, the question is: "Marketing BS or Real Thing?"

Last update (1.13) was a real update. As from @Seba feedback I can't see how someone could call out "marketing bs". Also one thing is to read about speculations, but from people having the wheel makes their feedback so much more valid. 

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Posted (edited)

I am locked at very slow now. Just took a ride. I did notice the trolley lift works more reliably.  Im back down to slow speed again. Tiltback going down hill, very interesting! I do find that this speed cap is now making it MORE dangerous, as I had gotten to enjoy the balance of a slightly faster travel rate. If i cant figure out how to get my speeds back up, I will be VERY angry and will try to  downgrade firmware. As it is, the joy of riding my wheel is gone.... for now. Makes me sad. I cant comment on handling chages much, as its really slow now. It SEEMS to adjust to changes in incline a little differently. I still have a tough time powering thru soft dirt and grass uphill, so i cant say i notice any low speed power changes.... still standing on my toes. ON a side note... i cant calibrate the lift switch anymore. It gets stuck on the 'keep flat' screen. Luckily mine worked before and doesnt need recalibrating yet

Edited by ShanesPlanet

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My question is not about how it feels for the rider of the same wheel before/after firmware update - there's no question from people's feedback that 1.13 feels better accelerating than 1.12, and 2.0 feels better than 1.13, but more technical and in comparison to other wheels that are known to "give it all", like (presumably) Gotway. Suppose, Gotway gives you 100% of what hardware is physically capable of. Is Kingsong giving you 100% initially, and then finding some miraculous way to give you 110, then 120% by firmware updates; or they are giving you 80% initially, then "improving" it to 90%, then finally 100%, and everybody screams hooray about great improvement, while in fact it was like hiding candy from kids and giving it gradually, not all at once? I think this is a valid question.

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25 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I am locked at very slow now. Just took a ride. I did notice the trolley lift works more reliably.  Im back down to slow speed again. Tiltback going down hill, very interesting! I do find that this speed cap is now making it MORE dangerous, as I had gotten to enjoy the balance of a slightly faster travel rate. If i cant figure out how to get my speeds back up, I will be VERY angry and will try to  downgrade firmware. As it is, the joy of riding my wheel is gone.... for now. Makes me sad. I cant comment on handling chages much, as its really slow now. It SEEMS to adjust to changes in incline a little differently. I still have a tough time powering thru soft dirt and grass uphill, so i cant say i notice any low speed power changes.... still standing on my toes. ON a side note... i cant calibrate the lift switch anymore. It gets stuck on the 'keep flat' screen. Luckily mine worked before and doesnt need recalibrating yet

Mine also reset back down to 20km/h, which, let me tell you, scared the breaks off me. Luckily i was accelerating very slowly to test what it felt like before it yelled "PLEASE DECELERATE" at me and shot me into tilt back, lmao. That thing is so scary when you're not expecting it.

 

But yo, sign out, then sign back in to the app (the official kingsong app) go to "Mine" then "my vehicle" and if you see it there, then you're good. Then you can exit, go to the main page, go to the speed settings. Press okay okay okay okay to the endless warnings about certain death, then bump your speeds up. Up until this update, my app has not recognized my wheel as my wheel, so i was not able to change my speed (thankfully it was already set to 50km/h, but i couldnt touch the alarms or they'd reset to sub 20km/h which was a hassle). 

Please let us know if this works. When I tried to contact kingsong for assistance, they just kept repeating how to get to the "my vehicle" page, then left me on read, lmfao. This happened 3 times. 

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25 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I am locked at very slow now. Just took a ride. I did notice the trolley lift works more reliably.  Im back down to slow speed again. Tiltback going down hill, very interesting! I do find that this speed cap is now making it MORE dangerous, as I had gotten to enjoy the balance of a slightly faster travel rate. If i cant figure out how to get my speeds back up, I will be VERY angry and will try to  downgrade firmware. As it is, the joy of riding my wheel is gone.... for now. Makes me sad. I cant comment on handling chages much, as its really slow now. It SEEMS to adjust to changes in incline a little differently. I still have a tough time powering thru soft dirt and grass uphill, so i cant say i notice any low speed power changes.... still standing on my toes. ON a side note... i cant calibrate the lift switch anymore. It gets stuck on the 'keep flat' screen. Luckily mine worked before and doesnt need recalibrating yet

Mine also reset back down to 20km/h, which, let me tell you, scared the breaks off me. Luckily i was accelerating very slowly to test what it felt like before it yelled "PLEASE DECELERATE" at me and shot me into tilt back, lmao. That thing is so scary when you're not expecting it.

 

But yo, sign out, then sign back in to the app (the official kingsong app) go to "Mine" then "my vehicle" and if you see it there, then you're good. Then you can exit, go to the main page, go to the speed settings. Press okay okay okay okay to the endless warnings about certain death, then bump your speeds up. Up until this update, my app has not recognized my wheel as my wheel, so i was not able to change my speed (thankfully it was already set to 50km/h, but i couldnt touch the alarms or they'd reset to sub 20km/h which was a hassle). 

Please let us know if this works. When I tried to contact kingsong for assistance, they just kept repeating how to get to the "my vehicle" page, then left me on read, lmfao. This happened 3 times. 

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Just a short question, how long did it take for you to see any download progress of the firmware. All I get is the circle spinning, but nothing else happens. It seems to me something is blocking file trasfer (could be because of android 10 or company policy rules on my or just high load request on the KS server). Screenshot_20200110-000433_Kingsong.thumb.jpg.1dac6df8d6a406ae74327cb84da7eca7.jpg

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, seage said:

Mine also reset back down to 20km/h, which, let me tell you, scared the breaks off me. Luckily i was accelerating very slowly to test what it felt like before it yelled "PLEASE DECELERATE" at me and shot me into tilt back, lmao. That thing is so scary when you're not expecting it.

 

But yo, sign out, then sign back in to the app (the official kingsong app) go to "Mine" then "my vehicle" and if you see it there, then you're good. Then you can exit, go to the main page, go to the speed settings. Press okay okay okay okay to the endless warnings about certain death, then bump your speeds up. Up until this update, my app has not recognized my wheel as my wheel, so i was not able to change my speed (thankfully it was already set to 50km/h, but i couldnt touch the alarms or they'd reset to sub 20km/h which was a hassle). 

Please let us know if this works. When I tried to contact kingsong for assistance, they just kept repeating how to get to the "my vehicle" page, then left me on read, lmfao. This happened 3 times. 

Thanks for that. My vehicle was showing up, and it did have to log in after the update to 2.0  ks18l.  I tried again and logged out and back in, still no speed setting allowed. It says X setting parameter at anything above 12mph. Oddly, darknessbot updated recently and it doesnt show ANY speed changes available. IIRC, i never got the KS app to work for speed settings and was using DB from the start.  Pretty damn scary to hit that speed alarm when you're used to going a little faster. I was headed downhill on my street with no voice command, when it tilted like crazy on me. Damn, i just wish i had left it alone, it WAS working fine.

 

Unventor, my download took just moments to start and surprised me that it worked as expected in less than 2-4 mins. I have VERY slow satellite net and was using an ipadmini via bluetooth. Id suggest to 'ABORT MISSION", unless you have great luck in your past gambles. Until my update gets reverted or something changes, im stuck with a VERY slow wheel.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
addtl info

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