MTen3 67v 420Wh vs 84v 325Wh

[Jason McNeil]

Working on a deal with Gotway, for offer an 'entry' level MTe3n in the next 40-50 days for around $590, or $400 less than the current 512Wh/84V model. 

The choice is either a larger capacity 420Wh/67v or the 325Wh/84v, weight difference between the two is negligible, but the question is whether it's more advantageous to have another 95Wh capacity on the 67v or the extra 5MPH of speed head-room. For a 10", does anyone actual ride this at the 25MPH limit, or is 20MPH sufficient? Which would you choose?  

[paulz]

I often burst over 20mph on my daily commute but 95% of time I'm below 16mph.

Range matters little, provided it exceeds 3x my normal commute.  So I guess I'd prefer the speed option.

My daily commute is 2km in dense urban environment, I do it mostly on Mten3 and mostly on sidewalk as the wheel is too small for "street-level" bumps.

When it comes to wheels, I'm not particularly price sensitive.  I wonder what percentage of people on this forum are making wheel decisions based on cost?  Perhaps the goal is to expand the market?

IMHO, the lowest-hanging fruit for the Mten3 would be to curve the underside of the handle so it does not hurt the hand, and to add a wheel-cut-off button.

[Jason McNeil]

34 minutes ago, paulz said:

I wonder what percentage of people on this forum are making wheel decisions based on cost?  Perhaps the goal is to expand the market?

IMHO, the lowest-hanging fruit for the Mten3 would be to curve the underside of the handle so it does not hurt the hand, and to add a wheel-cut-off button.

That's true, my sense is there's an untapped segment for first time riders, who tend to be price sensitive in the beginning, or parents looking to purchase a Wheel for their kid(s). Having a sub-$600 MTen3 would be a perfect foray into the world of Wheels, for those who are on the fence about which model to buy. I'll probably get a supply of both & let the market decide which is the best for their needs. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Jason McNeil

[RockyTop]

In two years, I would buy this wheel with distance over speed. My grandson is not quite ready yet but I have been thinking about what to get him when he is ready. 

[Rehab1]

4 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

For a 10", does anyone actual ride this at the 25MPH limit, or is 20MPH sufficient? Which would you choose?  

For me Jason 20 mph would be sufficient for the Mten3.  I would hate to hit an unexpected pothole or rough terrain beyond that speed on a 10” wheel. 
 

3 hours ago, paulz said:

and to add a wheel-cut-off button.

The new repurposed Mten 3 board has a PCB socket for a motor stop button so maybe your wish will materialize in the future. 

 

 

 

 

[xorbe]

I can't imagine going 25 mph on my MTen3!!! That little wheel is loads of fun, but squirrelly!  But, I consider top speed to be about about peak headroom and safety, not top speed usage.

My #1 MTen3 complaint is the painfully squared off handle, and second no momentary cut-off button.  I consider the MTen3 to be a novelty wheel due to the tiny tire.

I vote for a non-existent $600 325Wh 84V GotWay 12"  wheel.  In reality I would probably vote KS14D for a kid or curious adult.

Does the $375 12" 172Wh IPS a130 not fit the "cheap" segment for small kids already?

[Fuerte]

I would prefer the bigger battery so you can "play" longer as I can't imagine going over 20 mph on that small of a wheel. My .02 cents.

[BoseHeadphones]

How much power do you lose along with that top speed? While I do occasionally enjoy cruising at 24mph top speed isn't that important to me. But a huge part of the fun I'm having with the Mten3 is the crazy amount of acceleration and braking power it has. If the 67v has a significant drop in torque I'd rather have the smaller 84v battery. Otherwise if the only compromise really is top speed I'd opt for the longer range.

Agreed on the handle though, if it were curved it'd be a huge improvement to ergonomics. In lieu of that I borrowed a page from Marty's book and wrapped it with a spare tennis racquet grip I had lying around.

[Aneta]

14 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Working on a deal with Gotway, for offer an 'entry' level MTe3n in the next 40-50 days for around $590, or $400 less than the current 512Wh/84V model. 

The choice is either a larger capacity 420Wh/67v or the 325Wh/84v, weight difference between the two is negligible, but the question is whether it's more advantageous to have another 95Wh capacity on the 67v or the extra 5MPH of speed head-room. For a 10", does anyone actual ride this at the 25MPH limit, or is 20MPH sufficient? Which would you choose?  

Will the controller be the same in both models? (i.e. rated for the same max voltage)

[who_the]

Wow I didn't realize Gotway was still making 67-volt anything... I got my Mten3 (84/512) up to 24 mph back when I was about 30 lbs heavier. I'd say 84v, not for the increased speed per se, but for the extra bit of headroom it provides against overleans.

[Stadler]

15 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Working on a deal with Gotway, for offer an 'entry' level MTe3n in the next 40-50 days for around $590, or $400 less than the current 512Wh/84V model. 

The choice is either a larger capacity 420Wh/67v or the 325Wh/84v, weight difference between the two is negligible, but the question is whether it's more advantageous to have another 95Wh capacity on the 67v or the extra 5MPH of speed head-room. For a 10", does anyone actual ride this at the 25MPH limit, or is 20MPH sufficient? Which would you choose?  

Sounds good for an entry level. I would much rather of had this instead of my e+

[Aneta]

What cells will be used?

Will the internal space for battery be the same as for 512Wh model?

Would it be possible to replace 67V battery with DIY 84V, will it be just "plug & play" swap?

[Marty Backe]

Fantastic idea Jason. After my initial exploratory rides with the Mten3, I never do the ~20-miles that it's capable of. For me, 10-miles does everything I need, and more. Just one persons opinion of course.

I think the biggest question mark for me is power. The "standard" 84-volt model has an amazing amount of torque which makes it effortless to have all kinds of reversal type fun. Would the 67-volt version have the same torque, or would it be turned into a Luffy?

If it has the same torque but you're just giving up on the top end speed, than absolutely go with 67-volts and more battery. But if the 67-volt version results in loss of torque, stick with 84-volts. 320wh would still make for a very fun wheel and I'd probably not notice any difference in my use case.

If you need anyone to test the 67-volt version vs the 84-volt model, send me a 67-volt unit and I'll be able to tell you if it behaves like the "real" Mten3 

[Aneta]

I wonder what's the phase current limit on the controller? Is this limit, or system voltage, is what limits the torque at zero speed? If the voltage, then 67V version will not only have lower top speed (and thus lower thrust headroom at conservative speeds of 50-70% of "faceplant speed"), but have proportionally lower torque at low speeds, too. That would really suck.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Aneta

[EMA]

imho even the 84v option will do the range the wheel is supposed too

[Declan acoustic-unicyclist]

Make it 84volt.

 

The common complaint is that people are worried of faceplanting the tiny wheel. The torque provided from the higher voltage means this tiny 10 inch wheel is able to move over very large potholes.

I ride this wheel at 25mph and it can still climb over bumps because of the high voltage. 

 

84volts or bust (safety buffer for beginners even at low, low speeds)

Edited November 21, 2019 by Declan acoustic-unicyclist

[fryman]

13 hours ago, Aneta said:

I wonder what's the phase current limit on the controller? Is this limit, or system voltage, is what limits the torque at zero speed? If the voltage, then 67V version will not only have lower top speed (and thus lower thrust headroom at conservative speeds of 50-70% of "faceplant speed"), but have proportionally lower torque at low speeds, too. That would really suck.

You need to relax and enjoy the wheels 

[RagingGrandpa]

13 hours ago, Aneta said:

I wonder what's the phase current limit on the controller? Is this limit, or system voltage, is what limits the torque at zero speed? If the voltage, then 67V version will not only have lower top speed (and thus lower thrust headroom at conservative speeds of 50-70% of "faceplant speed"), but have proportionally lower torque at low speeds, too. That would really suck.

 

6 minutes ago, fryman said:

You need to relax and enjoy the wheels 

Love my 512wh MTen3. Gets more use than my MSX lately because the weather's been too wet for offroading.

@Aneta is right. The MTen3 needs every amp it can muster at low speed- that's why it's fun. @Jason McNeil: choose whichever model has higher stall current   If they're equal, then my vote is go for capacity. "More range than a onewheel xr" is a major selling point for EUC's here in the US.

p.s.  I have no complaints about carrying this tiny 20lb wheel- handle ergonomics never crossed my mind.

Cheers

[paulz]

32 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

"More range than a onewheel xr"

Onewheel is the number one choice of people who are not aware that EUCs exist.  

Onewheel:  Combining the inferiority of a flat wheel with the inferiority of a small wheel; coupled to an under-powered motor and a diminutive battery.  

Yet still more expensive than an EUC because all those banner ads must be paid for somehow.  EUC is a triumph of engineering; onewheel is a triumph of marketing. 

 

[Darrell Wesh]

84v please! With a buy one get a second $100 off so I can get two 🙂

[fryman]

New learners may prefer the range and the color black.

[mike_bike_kite]

It was mentioned elsewhere that it might be a good idea for the batteries to be removable in 4 sections. This might allow you to take an EUC on a plane. Not sure whether you could just leave a pack out to make the wheel cheaper. The Mten3 is a really interesting wheel but is it a good wheel for learners?

[Marty Backe]

29 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

It was mentioned elsewhere that it might be a good idea for the batteries to be removable in 4 sections. This might allow you to take an EUC on a plane. Not sure whether you could just leave a pack out to make the wheel cheaper. The Mten3 is a really interesting wheel but is it a good wheel for learners?

Many airlines will not even allow an EUC that is demonstrated to have no batteries, allowed on a plane.

The inside of the Mten3 is tight and the battery pack is small. I don't think it would be realistic to break it up into multiple components. And if you did, that would certainly raise the manufacturing cost (and therefore purchase price).

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Many airlines will not even allow an EUC that is demonstrated to have no batteries, allowed on a plane.

There are other ways to transport an EUC by air. 

 

[winterwheel]

23 hours ago, paulz said:

Onewheel is the number one choice of people who are not aware that EUCs exist.  

Onewheel:  Combining the inferiority of a flat wheel with the inferiority of a small wheel; coupled to an under-powered motor and a diminutive battery.  

Yet still more expensive than an EUC because all those banner ads must be paid for somehow.  EUC is a triumph of engineering; onewheel is a triumph of marketing. 

 

We had a onewheel rider in our group this year. It looked like fun, but we really had to scale group rides back when he came out -- had to ride at low speed and much shorter distances than normal, couldn't do hills as well, the list goes on. There are definitely use cases for it, riding sideways on a wheel would be useful when taking video of something for example, and it seems to work well for short commutes/last mile scenarios, but on basic utility we learned that the onewheel is nowhere close to euc.

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by winterwheel