stephen Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Gaz Bon said: Seems not entirely true as here's a snap shot of wheel log after fall How come you've got battery percentage on wheellog ? I can't get it to work and a few more people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Gaz Bon said: Wheel cut out no warning no beebs maybe lost traction and wheel span out ???? I sure hope it was that and not the wheel. You weren't that fast and you certainly aren't that heavy at 67kg!! Edited September 7, 2019 by meepmeepmayer spelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 8 hours ago, Gaz Bon said: Wheel cut out no warning no beebs maybe lost traction and wheel span out ???? I know things happen fast when falling but do you definitely know it it was a cut out or lost traction seems weird as it said please decelerate after the fall?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Bon Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: I sure hope it was that and not the wheel. You weren't that fast and you certainly aren't that heavy at 67kg! What gets me is no other data shown even current journey should have been 2-300 Mts and avg speed , Maybe if after shut down came back on mid spin out ? Will be out again tomorrow same tracks wheel log collecting data this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Bon Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 This a snap of an earlier ride hit top speed and all data for trip Tilt back at 50 was well i might have peed myself a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slashebeest Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 31 minutes ago, stephen said: How come you've got battery percentage on wheellog ? I can't get it to work and a few more people I'd like to know as well, wheellog stuck at 100% 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Gaz Bon said: This a snap of an earlier ride hit top speed and all data for trip Tilt back at 50 was well i might have peed myself a little @Gaz Bon what version of wheellog you using my battery % doesn't work it constantly says 100%??? Edited September 7, 2019 by stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Bon Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 One last thing i had voice control off before i crashed so not sure as to why I had please de-celerate after crash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Bon Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, stephen said: @Gaz Bon what version of wheellog you using my battery % doesn't work it constantly says 100%??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chriull said: As here the Kingsong engineers are mentioned quite often, they could look to implement a dynamic tiltback based on speed, current/acceleration and battery voltage. @Micheal Shen@US69 - that would guarantee safe driving (constant safety margin for all riding styles) and let the riders use the really maximum speed. I already sketched this out (roughly) in Could be worth the effort to "push" the engineers in this direction?! Yes, you are onto something BUT: The biggest problem is SUDDEN acceleration for a given speed. You could derive a formulation for tiltback speed based on the variation of Voltage divided by the integral of Current variations(caused by accelerations) over a short period. (Which in fact will give you the DYNAMIC variation of the internal resistance of the BATTERY(!) ) That would take care of temperature dependance. First problem: The tiltback speed will still be unpredictable for the rider unless there is a display. Second problem: if the rider(or a road bump forces him) SUDDENLY changes his behavior you will still have a faceplant! The real answer is simply(!) to increase the margin by having a higher efficiency motor for the projected SPEED that the "fans" want, OR rewind the motor for less torque and more speed. If I was marketing I would offer two versions with two different vocations! 16XT 16XS T for TORQUE, S for SPEED! I could be wrong, as always... Hey, this is still a very nice wheel... If I was in the market I would buy the T version! That is: the present version... Edited September 7, 2019 by pico 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azze80 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 57 minutes ago, stephen said: I know things happen fast when falling but do you definitely know it it was a cut out or lost traction seems weird as it said please decelerate after the fall?? @stephen, This is not uncommon ... A week ago, I rode walking speed...(very slow) , as I was approaching a very low and small sidewalk curb. I have ridden over this maybe a thousand times but this time I did not manage to keep my balance so I just jumped off it. Had this been my earlier wheel, the ks14s, it would have just lied down on the side with no drama... Instead, my 16X continued about 1meter and did a 360 almost (over its top handle) before it fell down on its side 🙄. My Beaty is now scratched 😥. When this happened the wheel kept spinning and announced the standard “please decelerate “ as mentioned above before I picked it up. My total range is 500 and am 65kg, travel around 10-15km in trails every day for work. Fw 05 @Gaz Bon, hope you recover fast and get well soon. Edited September 7, 2019 by Azze80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 19 minutes ago, pico said: Yes, you are onto something BUT: The biggest problem is SUDDEN acceleration for a given speed. You could derive a formulation for tiltback speed based on the variation of Voltage divided by the integral of Current variations(caused by accelerations) over a short period. (Which in fact will give you the DYNAMIC variation of the internal resistance of the BATTERY(!) ) That would take care of temperature dependance. First problem: The tiltback speed will still be unpredictable for the rider unless there is a display. Second problem: if the rider(or a road bump forces him) SUDDENLY changes his behavior you will still have a faceplant! The real answer is simply(!) to increase the margin by having a higher efficiency motor for the projected SPEED that the "fans" want, OR rewind the motor for less torque and more speed. If I was marketing I would offer two versions with two different vocations! 16XT 16XS T for TORQUE, S for SPEED! I could be wrong, as always... Hey, this is still a very nice wheel... If I was in the market I would buy the T version! That is: the present version... The torque is excellent just don't push the wheel to its max speed . Any wheel you try to the max speed is living dangerously and the ks16x delivers the speed so quick your son going over the max I love the torque of this motor 😊 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) Ohhh! Hint for Kingsong engineers. Play with Y and Delta configurations for the winding if you go for XS. Edited September 7, 2019 by pico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Azze80 said: Instead, my 16X continued about 1meter and did a 360 almost (over its top handle) before it fell down on its side 🙄. My Beaty is now scratched I think it did that because it didn't fall down on its side , it would stop if it had leaned over 45 degrees but it was still upright and the torque kicked in when you jumped off and probably pushed the pedal when you did .. Does that seem possible 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azze80 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 20 minutes ago, stephen said: I think it did that because it didn't fall down on its side , it would stop if it had leaned over 45 degrees but it was still upright and the torque kicked in when you jumped off and probably pushed the pedal when you did .. Does that seem possible Understand what you mean, but why did it continue when it was lying down? Maybe I picked it up too quickly and maybe it was about to stop after the warning.... cause come to think of it I somehow interrupted it and the wheel was still spinning when I grabbed the handle. Makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post eddiemoy Posted September 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2019 10 hours ago, Gaz Bon said: Just had a face plant @ Speed maybe 45kph on dirt Wheel cut out no warning no beebs maybe lost traction and wheel span out ???? Version 1.05 firmware As I'm laying in the dirt wheel tells me to please de-ccelerate 🤣 Battery 72% Always wearing full face protection and body armor and pads nose kinda took bit of a hit as visor pushed up hard and knee pad hard cover ripped from its rivets ,knee is bloody and painful Not even 200mts into ride I doubt it is a cut out. What you describe seem more like it lost traction. That is why when the wheel fell on the side it was still speeding up and you hear please decelerate. If it was a cut out, you wouldn't hear anything after it fell. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 4 hours ago, mrelwood said: And a 67V wheel would’ve fallen right at the start? That’s not how it goes. It’s the voltage per cell that matters. I’m talking about back EMF. Apparently 27mph on the 2200W motor is pushing it. Having a 100V system would give you 16V extra buffer since the back EMF would be the same for this speed (assuming same motor windings, same wheel, same rider, same firmware, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azze80 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 3 hours ago, eddiemoy said: I doubt it is a cut out. What you describe seem more like it lost traction. That is why when the wheel fell on the side it was still speeding up and you hear please decelerate. If it was a cut out, you wouldn't hear anything after it fell. Correct, when I did it with a 14S, I did not hear this, but the music was still playing 😂 It was like, “I don’t want to die completely ” :), When l lifted it upright again it started to work at once... I didn’t have to restart it. Does that classify as cutoff? @eddiemoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Azze80 said: Correct, when I did it with a 14S, I did not hear this, but the music was still playing 😂 It was like, “I don’t want to die completely ” :), When l lifted it upright again it started to work at once... I didn’t have to restart it. Does that classify as cutoff? @eddiemoy Cutoff = power off due to overloading the control circuit. Overlean = you lean and the wheel can't catch you fast enough; power remains on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azze80 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Just now, chrisjunlee said: Cutoff = power off due to overloading the control circuit. Overlean = you lean and the wheel can't catch you fast enough; power remains on Ahh, so in my case overlean👍🏻 Makes sense... too heavy on the pedal, my bad😒 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chriull Posted September 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2019 6 hours ago, pico said: The biggest problem is SUDDEN acceleration for a given speed. That's a intrinsic problem. One defines/chosses a specific safety margin. The higher accelerations are allowed/possible/used the lower the possible prewarning times get. By now all of this topic is just ignored by the manufacturers. 6 hours ago, pico said: First problem: The tiltback speed will still be unpredictable for the rider unless there is a display. the max torque over speed limit is absolutely unpredictable and not intiituve for riders. So an unpredictale warning tiltback before hitting this limit and having a faceplant gives vigorous riders at least some chance. Quote Second problem: if the rider(or a road bump forces him) SUDDENLY changes his behavior you will still have a faceplant! Thats again depending on the setting of how much safety margin is designed into the system. This is of course a decision - but with such a "limit based tiltback" one has dependent on the programmed safety margin the speed independend security to overcome a small/medium/big bump/rider style change. This system just would give a constant predetermined safety margin for each situation. Quote The real answer is simply(!) to increase the margin by having a higher efficiency motor for the projected SPEED that the "fans" want, OR rewind the motor for less torque and more speed. Increasing the availaible power to get higher safety margins is happening and has happened anyway by development - but we are not talking about future weels but about one specific as it is on the market and how firmware chances could increase users satisfaction and safety! Quote I could be wrong, as always... Give the engineers a chance to show whats possible with an intelligent firmware! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pico Posted September 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Chriull said: give the engineers a chance to show whats possible with an intelligent firmware! They poor fellows had to solve since the Pre series was introduced: Silencing the Wheel (No more Kingsong wine) Not much cogging at low speed. No Stutter or spurious dip at high speed. Improve efficiency (I understand they are not quite yet up to par) Getting speed AND torque without changing the hardware. (hey, they released the thing, only software updates...) Deal with the inevitable undiscovered bugs. Keep the wheel safe. I am sure they have been scratching their head solidly for the last 4 months! Yes, They probably will solve the riddle. That's what they Do! Edited September 7, 2019 by pico 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stephen Posted September 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2019 Ks16x road and terrain ride with commentary new test firmware 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DragonFZ Posted September 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 7, 2019 My armored KS16X... still feel more comfortable with the belt on it... next challenge learn how to ride it off road 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Bon Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Azze80 said: Overlean = you lean and the wheel can't catch you fast enough; power remains on So in my case this may have been what happened Smaller wheel easier to overlean than 18 wheel going over same terrain All the same I still see this as a problem Wheel will let you accelerate with no reserves of power ,riding on the slippery edge I would sacrifice acceleration and speed 8 hours ago, stephen said: Second problem: if the rider(or a road bump forces him) SUDDENLY changes his behavior you will still have a faceplant! for power reserve / torque 9 hours ago, pico said: I was marketing I would offer two versions with two different vocations! 16XT 16XS T for TORQUE, S for SPEED! I could be wrong, as always... Hey, this is still a very nice wheel... If I was in the market I would buy the T version! That is: the present version... Yep T version that would have my name all over it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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