My Z10 Triumphs, Tribulations, and Failures

[Marty Backe]

3 minutes ago, Klin said:

Great video with lots of data. I was watching this last night on your YouTube channel.

Thanks. You were probably watching a different video because I just published this one an hour or so ago.

[Marty Backe]

Z10 Acceleration Test Against MSuper V3 & MSuper X

Since I have all three wheels right now I thought I'd do a simple test for my own edification, and maybe this will be interesting to some of you.

I'm not going to provide tables of times and any video. Just a summary after doing the test a few times on each wheel.

I picked a somewhat arbitrary distance to ride, starting from a standstill. The distance turned out to be 20 or so feet beyond the max speed of the Z10. The time was in the 10-second ballpark.

I did not hit the accelerator super hard, but each wheel was ridden in the same manner.

The Z10 was ~1/4-second faster than the MSuper V3. The MSuper V3 was ~1/4-second faster than the MSuper X.

Note that these differences follow the diameter of the wheel. The Z10 has the smallest diameter wheel, followed by the MSuper V3, and finally the almost 20-inch diameter MSX.

Perhaps the biggest take away for you potential Z10 buyers is that the Z10 is every bit as powerful within it's speed envelop (~28-mph) as the MSuper line of wheels. Of course the MSuper's can go faster for a lot longer. But the Z10 is no slouch.

Caveat

Maybe under lab conditions where the wheels were accelerated at their maximum levels, the MSuper's might 'win'. Or maybe not. For me, what my little test proved, was that in real-world riding conditions, the Z10 feels just as powerful as the Gotway wheels of similar size.

[Klin]

3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Z10 Acceleration Test Against MSuper V3 & MSuper X

Since I have all three wheels right now I thought I'd do a simple test for my own edification, and maybe this will be interesting to some of you.

I'm not going to provide tables of times and any video. Just a summary after doing the test a few times on each wheel.

I picked a somewhat arbitrary distance to ride, starting from a standstill. The distance turned out to be 20 or so feet beyond the max speed of the Z10. The time was in the 10-second ballpark.

I did not hit the accelerator super hard, but each wheel was ridden in the same manner.

The Z10 was ~1/4-second faster than the MSuper V3. The MSuper V3 was ~1/4-second faster than the MSuper X.

Note that these differences follow the diameter of the wheel. The Z10 has the smallest diameter wheel, followed by the MSuper V3, and finally the almost 20-inch diameter MSX.

Perhaps the biggest take away for you potential Z10 buyers is that the Z10 is every bit as powerful within it's speed envelop (~28-mph) as the MSuper line of wheels. Of course the MSuper's can go faster for a lot longer. But the Z10 is no slouch.

Caveat

Maybe under lab conditions where the wheels were accelerated at their maximum levels, the MSuper's might 'win'. Or maybe not. For me, what my little test proved, was that in real-world riding conditions, the Z10 feels just as powerful as the Gotway wheels of similar size.

Appreciate all this detailed info about your experiences/tests the wheel.

The results just make me anticipate the arrival date all that much more. Really wish I could have made it to the Z10 demo last weekend so I could have had a go at it. 

If only I had signed up on the forums a week earlier. ?

[Marty Backe]

 

[Mike Paolini]

Maybe also worth considering here is that his is a preproduction Z10, and the production units should have 33% more torque which might have effect here....

Thanks for the test Marty, all the mSuper hype makes it hard to stay the course on the Z10, but real world test help that.  

 

[Marty Backe]

 

[who_the]

WOW I was not expecting the Z10 to outrun the MSuper X and MSuper V3! Nice speed test Marty. 

[Rotciv]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

 

Thank you for the review video and all your other great quality videos! You really put a lot of effort and thought into your videos.

You’re absolutely right about the Z10 being a very physical wheel. Took mine for a ride around my neighborhood to get used to high speed sharp turns for about 8 miles and my legs and back are sore. Seems like I haven’t used these muscles before. 

??

[Ather]

21 hours ago, Ziiten said:

Plenty of winter here too. If it wasn't so hard to take the tire off, one could mod a second winter tire using these: http://www.aerostich.com/self-tapping-carbide-tire-studs.html

My biggest problem is black ice and cold air. Roads are usually cleared often. 

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, who_the said:

WOW I was not expecting the Z10 to outrun the MSuper X and MSuper V3! Nice speed test Marty. 

Will be interested to see if you ultimately agree after your time with the Z.

[Mike Paolini]

@Marty Backe  Thank you for the review.  Looking forward to the Z10 which is on order.

And thank you for both the recommendations on the mTen3 and the MCM5 - you were spot on and given me much happiness that would not have happened without your reviews and videos.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Mike Paolini said:

@Marty Backe  Thank you for the review.  Looking forward to the Z10 which is on order.

And thank you for both the recommendations on the mTen3 and the MCM5 - you were spot on and given me much happiness that would not have happened without your reviews and videos.

Thanks for that 

[FreeRide]

Nice Review!  There is a super annoying high-pitched wine in the recording, I've never heard from you before.  sounds like it was coming from one of the wheels as it was gone when you stepped away. It is almost over powering you on the recording sometimes. 

[Wraith Rider]

Great review Marty!  I’m even more excited to see your review of the actual production wheel your getting!  1/3 more power could be a game changer all together!  

Did you by chance hear if there will be any changes to the trolley for the production model?!  Rust has been a real issue according to the NYC guys.

[EUCMania]

2 hours ago, Soju said:

Great review Marty!  I’m even more excited to see your review of the actual production wheel your getting!  1/3 more power could be a game changer all together!  

Did you by chance hear if there will be any changes to the trolley for the production model?!  Rust has been a real issue according to the NYC guys.

1/3 more power? who knows. Maybe the 9B CEO meant that the production version will have 1/3 more power than the beta version in China,  and this demo unit may already have the 1/3 more power than the Chinese beta, because US testers have not complained about lack of power as Chinese did. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by EUCMania

[fbhb]

35 minutes ago, EUCMania said:

1/3 more power? who knows. Maybe the 9B CEO meant that the production version will have 1/3 more power than the beta version in China,  and this demo unit may already have the 1/3 more power than the Chinese beta, because US testers have not complained about lack of power as Chinese did. 

@EUCMania the Z10 that Marty & others have been testing still had the pre-production dual control boards fitted, which @houseofjob had updated to the most current firmware the old boards were capable of running. Chris did say that firmware upgrade improved performance from how the wheel arrived to him initially, but the old boards could not be updated any further. However, all production Z10's are now fitted with the New dual control boards, that have been upgraded with new/additional components added in each case, along with new firmware changes. I previously posted photos earlier in this thread comparing the changes made to the E-Wheels demo boards & also it's location with the new boards from a Brand New production Z10. You will have to scroll back to somewhere around page 22 to check out the differences found so far.

Edited August 4, 2018 by fbhb

[Gustesta]

2 hours ago, fbhb said:

@EUCMania the Z10 that Marty & others have been testing still had the pre-production dual control boards fitted, which @houseofjob had updated to the most current firmware the old boards were capable of running. Chris did say that firmware upgrade improved performance from how the wheel arrived to him initially, but the old boards could not be updated any further. However, all production Z10's are now fitted with the New dual control boards, that have been upgraded with new/additional components added in each case, along with new firmware changes. I previously posted photos earlier in this thread comparing the changes made to the E-Wheels demo boards & also it's location with the new boards from a Brand New production Z10. You will have to scroll back to somewhere around page 22 to check out the differences found so far.

So, do all production Z10s have a higher torque than the demo unit?  About 1/3 more torque?

[fbhb]

36 minutes ago, Gustesta said:

So, do all production Z10s have a higher torque than the demo unit?  About 1/3 more torque?

This is what @Marty Backe said he has been informed of by the CEO of Ninebot/Segway. Marty was told that the production units will have 1/3 more power & torque, as well as running much cooler. If you scrolled back in this thread and checked the comparison photos, you can clearly see that changes have been made to both control boards & also the position in the housing. The only way we will know for sure the real world differences between the demo unit and the production wheel is when one of the previous testers (i.e. @Marty Backe or @houseofjob) receive their own Z10's to make valid comparisons. I am more than optimistic that there will be noticeable improvements for Ninebot to make such claims, but as @Marty Backe has also stated, even if his Z10 arrives with No Noticeable change (although in my opinion, unlikely) he is still going to be more than happy because even the demo wheel potentially is just so good as it is!

Edited August 4, 2018 by fbhb

[houseofjob]

34 minutes ago, fbhb said:

but as @Marty Backe has also stated, even if his Z10 arrives with No Noticeable change (although in my opinion, unlikely) he is still going to be more than happy because even the demo wheel potentially is just so good as it is!

Same. I want mine regardless.

 

FYI, every EUC company that does OTA mobile app FW upgrades (ie. all but Gotway), aim to increase performance over time / over FW versions. This has been the case for the longest. 

(Since Gotway doesn't do OTA mobile app FW updates, you see the improvement on their wheels with each production run.)

 

This is one reason why I personally do not judge a non-Gotway wheel's performance solely off the initial Firmwares, especially for the EUC companies that have shown to improve each of their models' performance, ala King Song. Case in point, my KS-18S certainly does not ride the same as it did when I first purchased it, it has significantly more torque than it did brand new, due to several FW updates over time.

Edited August 4, 2018 by houseofjob

[fbhb]

12 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Same. I want mine regardless.

FYI, every EUC company that does OTA mobile app FW upgrades (ie. all but Gotway) aim to increase performance over time / over FW versions. This has been the case for the longest. 

Since Gotway doesn't do OTA mobile app FW updates, you see the improvement on their wheels with each production run.

I have to agree with both you & Marty's sentiments, regardless I have an order in too and I just can't wait for it to arrive. I feel sure there will actually be noticeable improvements that you & Marty are best positioned to pick up on, but as you say, Ninebot's FW upgrades will also help to future proof the wheel for some years to come yet!

Edited August 4, 2018 by fbhb

[US69]

10 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Case in point, my KS-18S certainly does not ride the same as it did when I first purchased it, it has significantly more torque than it did brand new, due to several FW updates over time.

i could not have said it better ?

FW updates are just a good thing!

[houseofjob]

13 minutes ago, fbhb said:

I have to agree with both you & Marty's sentiments, regardless I have an order in too and I just can't wait for it to arrive. I feel sure there will actually be noticeable improvements that you & Marty are best positioned to pick up on, but as you say, Ninebot's FW upgrades will also help to future proof the wheel for some years to come yet!

Love the enthusiasm! 

..... but not totally sure about "future proof"-ing (as I'm one to change out wheels every year regardless)

I'd just say more like aging, like fine wine,.... better (at least) than the day you bought the wheel!

 

12 minutes ago, US69 said:

i could not have said it better ?

FW updates are just a good thing!

LOL, thanks, coming from a fellow KS18S owner haha (still can't give up this wheel, despite all the new wheels coming out!.... well, until they upgrade the tall KS18 series~)

Edited August 4, 2018 by houseofjob

[fbhb]

2 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

..... but not totally sure about "future proof"-ing (as I'm one to change out wheels every year regardless)

I'd just say more like aging, like fine wine,.... better (at least) than the day you bought the wheel!

Well what I mean is as "future proof" as any kind of tech gear can be these days, with FW upgrades at least possible, unlike my Tesla! We all know that the next best thing is always around the corner, so it's just up to the individual whether you choose to upgrade to it or not. Having said that, with all the recent offerings it's hard not to have more than one wheel on the shopping list, so I'll have to try to restrain myself ?

[houseofjob]

2 minutes ago, fbhb said:

with all the recent offerings it's hard not to have more than one wheel on the shopping list, so I'll have to try to indulge myself ?

I fixed your sentence ? woah new poo emoji... kinda liked the older one,.. oh well.

[mezzanine]

I have ZERO doubts that the production Z10 will have 30% more power.  

I just upgraded the firmware on my KS18S and the difference was dramatic.  I wasn't expecting the kind of difference that I immediately observed, it wasn't subtle.  If I had to put a % value on the degree of increased low-end torque and smoothness, it would be at least 20%.  

The production Z10 is going to be a much upgraded wheel.  And who knows, maybe they'll be able to improve it even further a few months down the road with further firmware updates?