Jeffrey Scott Will Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Scott Henley said: So....give us $200...and in about 30days we will let you know how much more you owe and at that point you can also see what you bought ? ? Not quite- you'll have more information before launch date. This is for people who want to save their place in line and would also like to receive an extra 10% off retail price. You can wait until launch day if you prefer. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Henley Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said: Not quite- you'll have more information before launch date. This is for people who want to save their place in line and would also like to receive an extra 10% off retail price. You can wait until launch day if you prefer. I’m sorry , I’m probably coming off like an ass . I didn’t mean for it to come across that way. I get what you’re saying . It just would be nice to have a bit more information before reserving one . In the event that I don’t like the specs ...watt hour, Watts etc...is the $199 refundable ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Scott Will Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, Scott Henley said: I’m sorry , I’m probably coming off like an ass . I didn’t mean for it to come across that way. I get what you’re saying . It just would be nice to have a bit more information before reserving one . In the event that I don’t like the specs ...watt hour, Watts etc...is the $199 refundable ? It's understandable you'd want to know all the specs before a commitment, absolutely. We can refund the deposit if you decide against it - no problem. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodman Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 59 minutes ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said: Pre-Order is $199 deposit and we will be releasing more specs before launch day April 10. Is there an Australian dealer if not do you send to Australia I am interested......we need some love from down under also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bob Yan Posted March 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2018 I agree that the company is too tight for the information about V10, and I am little upset too. The reason we do this way is: We want to keep our engineer and manufacture teams away from distracts from dealers and customers. You may doubt it when you see it, but here is why we think in this way: 1. We have gone through lots of experiences that we announced the product before we get full ready to for sales, and we thought everything should be okay, and we didn't give ourselves too much redundant time. But there always were unexpected problems came up, like some vendor failed to deliver, some parts not meeting the quality standard, some mould got broken and needed to refine, some new bug found in last minute, even the electricity got cut off for consecutive 2+ days in the industrial park... Actually InMotion's engineer team maybe is already the most experienced team in this industry, but we still can not predict everything, and make things right the first time. The physical products is more tricky than developing an App, we can't fix the problem by just updating the backend firmware, it may take us more than 4 days by just replacing some plastic shells if the color is not accurate. 2. We used to announce the new models in a very tight schedule, and then all the dealers and customers come to the company, pushing to deliver, and then they engineers and the quality managers are threatened by sales reps and all levels of managers of the company, and then they need to do some compromise because they have to take lots of pressure to ship out the products asap. The result normally was: The first several batch of products are not ideal, and then we need to accept lots of complaints and return and repair, and then the reputation of this new model was ruined, and customers got very mad, and then the hard work of all the team for the past whole year was wasted, and everyone felt frustrated. 3. We have made lots of retrospects and decided to learn from the failures, and we made a rule inside the company that: If we don't have stock in the warehouse, we shouldn't announce anything officially. A perfect plan is not enough, only the physical product stock makes sense for us. We need to create an better environment for all the team to focus the quality to avoid the same failure to happen once and once again. 4. We know there are lots of perceptions that most Chinese products and not well designed and manufactured, and Chinese products are named as knock off and low quality in general, and we feel very bad with that. We don't want to disgrace the country's reputation by our products, and we are trying to improve it from ourselves. It may not be the ideal way to balance customer demand for information and our internal progress, but unfortunately it's the best way we can come up for now. 5. There is lots of things needed to be improved for InMotion, and we are far from good enough. Most of what you said in this forum make sense for us, but it may take us time to execute them all. Apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate for all your patience! 11 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esash Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, Bobwheel said: I agree that the company is too tight for the information about V10, and I am little upset too. The reason we do this way is: We want to keep our engineer and manufacture teams away from distracts from dealers and customers. You may doubt it when you see it, but here is why we think in this way: 1. We have gone through lots of experiences that we announced the product before we get full ready to for sales, and we thought everything should be okay, and we didn't give ourselves too much redundant time. But there always were unexpected problems came up, like some vendor failed to deliver, some parts not meeting the quality standard, some mould got broken and needed to refine, some new bug found in last minute, even the electricity got cut off for consecutive 2+ days in the industrial park... Actually InMotion's engineer team maybe is already the most experienced team in this industry, but we still can not predict everything, and make things right the first time. The physical products is more tricky than developing an App, we can't fix the problem by just updating the backend firmware, it may take us more than 4 days by just replacing some plastic shells if the color is not accurate. 2. We used to announce the new models in a very tight schedule, and then all the dealers and customers come to the company, pushing to deliver, and then they engineers and the quality managers are threatened by sales reps and all levels of managers of the company, and then they need to do some compromise because they have to take lots of pressure to ship out the products asap. The result normally was: The first several batch of products are not ideal, and then we need to accept lots of complaints and return and repair, and then the reputation of this new model was ruined, and customers got very mad, and then the hard work of all the team for the past whole year was wasted, and everyone felt frustrated. 3. We have made lots of retrospects and decided to learn from the failures, and we made a rule inside the company that: If we don't have stock in the warehouse, we shouldn't announce anything officially. A perfect plan is not enough, only the physical product stock makes sense for us. We need to create an better environment for all the team to focus the quality to avoid the same failure to happen once and once again. 4. We know there are lots of perceptions that most Chinese products and not well designed and manufactured, and Chinese products are named as knock off and low quality in general, and we feel very bad with that. We don't want to disgrace the country's reputation by our products, and we are trying to improve it from ourselves. It may not be the ideal way to balance customer demand for information and our internal progress, but unfortunately it's the best way we can come up for now. 5. There is lots of things needed to be improved for InMotion, and we are far from good enough. Most of what you said in this forum make sense for us, but it may take us time to execute them all. Apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate for all your patience! Pride in country and pride in product are very good things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 37 minutes ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said: It's understandable you'd want to know all the specs before a commitment, absolutely. We can refund the deposit if you decide against it - no problem. Jeffrey, Just to be clear, if I dislike the specs once they are finally posted I can obtain a full refund for my $199 deposit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Scott Will Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Jeffrey, Just to be clear, if I dislike the specs once they are finally posted I can obtain a full refund for my $199 deposit? Absolutely! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Bobwheel said: ........Apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate for all your patience! A well executed statement Bob! Thanks for explaining the boardroom thought process. The delay on releasing the specs makes more sense to me now. Unfortunately the delay on releasing the actual purchase price does not. I will patiently wait. Edited March 13, 2018 by Rehab1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) @Bobwheel good insights on the internal ongoings of InMotion/SoloWheel. On the flip side though, not enough pressure means EUC companies become complacent and settle for releasing one minor performance upgrade model, sometimes taking over a year, while the competition, sometimes with half the budget, rolls out several compelling and different model wheels within the same time span. There is a fine balance to all business mindsets IMHO. Edited March 13, 2018 by houseofjob 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Yan Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Rehab1 said: A well executed statement Bob! Thanks for explaining the boardroom thought process. The delay on releasing the specs makes more sense to me now. Unfortunately the delay on releasing the actual purchase price does not. I will patiently wait. Appreciate a lot! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooEUC Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 The teaser pics certainly have me intrigued. Inmotion have made some really nice wheels. I look forward to seeing more details be revealed about this one. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bob Yan Posted March 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, houseofjob said: @Bobwheel good insights on the internal ongoings of InMotion/SoloWheel. On the flip side though, not enough pressure means EUC companies become complacent and settle for releasing one minor performance upgrade model, sometimes taking over a year, while the competition, sometimes with half the budget, rolls out several compelling and different model wheels within the same time span. There is a fine balance to all business mindsets IMHO. Yes, you are right! I'd like to share another insight about our decision. Actually InMotion started from mini-segway in 2012, and our team began to research it from 2007 when we were in college. We developed InMotion R0 which as attached in early 2015 half year before Ninebot mini Pro, and it's low cost hub motor and no handlebar in hand which were huge changes with the previous design. Previously we have 8:1 ratio gearbox for both of the motors which means the wheel had tremendous torque and can save rider from falling in case something unexpected happens, and without a handlebar in hand, riders can not have the same acceleration and brake reaction, which means less power need for the motor, and so we can use low cost hub motor directly. We knew it's doable, and the market would be huge because the retail price could drop dramatically(Note: InMotion mini-segway retail price was between $2000-$2500 in 2014). But we dropped the idea and stopped this project in the end, at the same time, Ninebot developed its own design but with the exact concept, and sold the products a very cheap price, and it's heard that they just surpassed 1 million units sales by the end of 2017 for this single model. You may feel irrelevant when I type this, but it's the one of the core reasons that why we seems so hesitate and low efficient in terms of developing new models of self-balancing devices. The biggest concern that caused us to drop the mini segway of InMotion R0 is, we felt guilty with developing these models. Because we thought the we couldn't conquer the safety issue by this design, the system is not stable enough for riders especially for kids who don't have basic knowledge of the principle of how self balancing device works. We didn't want to face too many falls and injuries from the wheels, and we told ourselves that we were not ethical to develop this model even we could see there would be a much bigger market out there for this model. We gave up, and we began to develop more safe products like electric scooters and e-bikes. InMotion board members were against the idea of developing Unicycle until the birth of V3 in 2016, because of the same reason. The prototype of InMotion V3 was almost developed by one of our co-founders himself, the company didn't give him team or resources and he just used his spare time designing and assembling, and in the end he succeeded to convince the board members to set up this new product line, but he met lot of resistance during the process. Even today, we still have the same concern with developing faster wheels, and every accident we got from customer pushed us back from high speed wheels. We know high performance wheels are always have high demands, and we know we need to do something, but there's always some sense of conflict in the culture of InMotion. I know if we made our determination more decisively, we could do a better job in terms of new models. Edited March 13, 2018 by Bobwheel add photo 8 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WARPed1701D Posted March 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) @Bobwheel Thanks for the history lesson. It helps explain why Inmotion wheels have such great reliability and safety reputation (and why I own one) . This is IMO where Inmotion has the expertise and reputation to take advantage of the unfilled niche in the EUC market. Redundancy and safety features. Any EUC company can make a faster wheel but many of us don't care to keep going faster but do care about staying upright and uninjured. Honestly 30kph is plenty fast enough for me. Leave 50kph to Gotway and their dodgy MOSFETS. Build a rock stable 30kph wheel with a shock absorbing tire, loads of power reserve for unexpected situations, redundant critical components that can slow you to gracefully stop in a hardware failure and with intelligent firmware that reads much more about environment and ride style when implementing safety features such as tilt back (so they don't become liabilities) and I'll gladly stump up twice the asking price of a faster wheel. The EUC community is a relatively old one. No one needs to be breaking bones due to blown hardware or crap design. Inmotion care about rider safety. Leverage that angle and I think a lot of people will be interested. Edited March 13, 2018 by WARPed1701D 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Yan Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said: @Bobwheel Thanks for the history lesson. It helps explain why Inmotion wheels have such great reliability and safety reputation (and why I own one) . This is IMO where Inmotion has the expertise and reputation to take advantage of the unfilled niche in the EUC market. Redundancy and safety features. Any EUC company can make a faster wheel but many of us don't care to keep going faster but do care about staying upright and uninjured. Honestly 30kph is plenty fast enough for me. Leave 50kph to Gotway and their dodgy MOSFETS. Build a rock stable 30kph wheel with a shock absorbing tire, loads of power reserve for unexpected situations, redundant critical components that can slow you to gracefully stop in a hardware failure and with intelligent firmware that reads much more about environment and ride style when implementing safety features such as tilt back (so they don't become liabilities) and I'll gladly stump up twice the asking price of a faster wheel. The EUC community is a relatively old one. No one needs to be breaking bones due to blown hardware or crap design. Inmotion care about rider safety. Leverage that angle and I think a lot of people will be interested. @WARPed1701D Thanks a lot! I feel you pointed a great direction for InMotion for the following new models, and it's a very good brand image if we keep positioning ourselves to be safe. Frankly we were forced by the high specs in some sense, and we should feel more confident to develop decent specs with more safe consideration designs. BTW, I agree your suggestions for the design, and I will forward them to our engineer team. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post houseofjob Posted March 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) @Bobwheel Thanks for the further insight into InMotion thinking! Just one more point though: faster speeds can also mean SAFER wheels. I've ridden on EUCs (I've owned wheels from every major manufacturer, including InMotion) every day for the past 3 years to get around the streets of New York City. 30km/h is not fast enough to safely accelerate out of the way of unexpected car traffic. Max speed doesn't necessarily always mean just joyriding. For me, speed is primarily used as a safety feature to accelerate away from danger; I don't consistently travel the max speeds (unless they are too low like the current InMotion wheels). In my experience, 35km/h is the bare minimum necessary for this burst safety acceleration. 45km/h is the most ideal, again, in my opinion based on my NYC riding. I don't believe such demands are unreasonable, as there are competitors like King Song achieving this with relatively few safety issues. I'm saying all of this because I loved owning my previous InMotion wheels in the V5F+ and V8, but their low top speeds were too dangerous to ride in NYC, so I had to sell when the competition met my demands. But the VX is a step in the right direction. If you can keep innovating (we really need an EUC with suspension to reduce axle impact) and release more InMotion EUC models with the same level of quality and safety, but in different utility of sizes (super compact portable like a Gotway MTen3, and super wide tire like the Gotway Monster or better, 4" wide Ninebot Z10), then I'll have much less reason to buy wheels from your competitors. Edited March 13, 2018 by houseofjob 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Yan Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, houseofjob said: @Bobwheel Thanks for the further insight into InMotion thinking! Just one more point though: faster speeds can also mean SAFER wheels. I've ridden on EUCs (I've owned wheels from every major manufacturer, including InMotion) every day for the past 3 years to get around the streets of New York City. 30km/h is not fast enough to safely accelerate out of the way of unexpected car traffic. Max speed doesn't necessarily always mean just joyriding. For me, speed is primarily used as a safety feature to accelerate away from danger; I don't consistently travel the max speeds (unless they are too low like the current InMotion wheels). In my experience, 35km/h is the bare minimum necessary for this burst acceleration. 45km/h is the most ideal, again, in my opinion based on my NYC riding. I don't believe such demands are unreasonable, as there are competitors like King Song achieving this with relatively few safety issues. I'm saying all of this because I loved owning my previous InMotion wheels in the V5F+ and V8, but their low top speeds were too dangerous to ride in NYC, so I had to sell when the competition met my demands. But the VX is a step in the right direction. If you can keep innovating (we really need an EUC with suspension to reduce axle impact) and release more InMotion EUC models with the same level of quality and safety, but in different utility of sizes (super compact portable like a Gotway MTen3, and super wide tire like the Gotway Monster or better, 4" wide Ninebot Z10), then I'll have much less reason to buy wheels from your competitors. That makes lot of sense to me, and I will keep listening and learning from you all, and I have confident to bring InMotion onto the right track. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasenutty Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 With you guys all switching your signatures to INmotion, does this mean that Solowheel is dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bob Yan Posted March 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2018 48 minutes ago, kasenutty said: With you guys all switching your signatures to INmotion, does this mean that Solowheel is dead? Solowheel is still there, and InMotion San Diego team will take care of all the services of InMotion V5/V8 and Solowheel G2/G3, this is for sure. But Shane gave us very hard time, and he changed his mind and strategy too fast, and it's hard for us to keep following his directions. Fortunately we have full control of InMotion, and it won't be a concern for us to change anymore. 7 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WaveCut Posted March 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) I found some extra details at inmotionworld siteWider Tire V10 features a thicker tire for extra grip on the road and off the road Premium Stereo Speakers V10’s stereo speakers let you ride with all of your favorite music in amazing clarity Intelligent Brake Light Make your night rides safer.V10 features a highly visible tail light that brightens when you slow down - just like a real brake light More features are coming on Mar.17th... Edited March 13, 2018 by WaveCut 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveCut Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Vik's said: No need for citizenship - just take some days out and fly over to US That's why you shouldn't live in 3rd world countries. I need at least a month to get visa there [ /offtopic ] Edited March 13, 2018 by WaveCut 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vik's Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 6 hours ago, kasenutty said: ... does this mean that Solowheel is dead? 5 hours ago, Bobwheel said: But Shane gave us very hard time, and he changed his mind and strategy too fast, and it's hard for us to keep following his directions. Fortunately we have full control of InMotion, and it won't be a concern for us to change anymore. Sounds as it's highly likely going to happen then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kael Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Well that's a bit confusing. I quite liked Solowheel as a brand. Anyway, these teasing details are rather exciting - a proper rear brake late is essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooEUC Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) The addition of Bluetooth speakers seems odd in a high end EUC. Do people (other than immature, selfish teenagers) actually blast their music out of their EUCs and force that unwanted noise pollution on all the people they pass by? What's wrong with Bluetooth earbuds? Airpods let you listen privately without blocking important outside sound. Having a boombox built into an EUC seems really silly and yobbish to me and it will just add unnecessary weight for those who are more civilised. When people walking at the park see someone fly past on an EUC blasting out loud music, they will only hate EUC riders more. Edited March 13, 2018 by RooMiniPro 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vik's Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, RooMiniPro said: The addition of Bluetooth speakers seems odd in a high end EUC. Do people (other than immature, selfish teenagers) actually blast their music out of their EUCs and force that unwanted noise pollution on all the people they pass by? What's wrong with Bluetooth earbuds? Airpods let you listen privately without blocking important outside sound. Having a boombox built into an EUC seems really silly and yobbish to me and it will just add unnecessary weight for those who are more civilised. When people walking at the park see someone fly past on an EUC blasting out loud music, they will only hate EUC riders more. My thoughts exactly! Don't care about integrated music and Inmotion had some extra points because of no "music speakers" in their previous wheels... Why they decided to include them in their EUC is a little weird... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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