Kingsong S16 coming...

[Funky]

2 hours ago, Robse said:

Amen. 😇 And the S19 is dead.

Amen brother!  Let the good words be spoken!!!  To me every new wheel is dead , because they are heavier than 25kg!  

I'm getting crap like Mten4 & A2 released..  So the wait for a non-crap wheel continues... 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Funky

[mrelwood]

10 hours ago, Funky said:

To me every new wheel is dead , because they are heavier than 25kg!  

Really?? Who would’ve thought… 

 

[mrelwood]

@techyiam, great recap and writeup. But…

13 hours ago, techyiam said:

The S16 also has the wider 16" tire like what is on the V12.

Wider than what exactly? S16, V12 HS, V11 and V11Y all have the same 3”width, which was the standard until knobby tires took the markets. Knobbies are slightly wider due to the knobs. Like on the V12 HT.

[Kingsong second hand eucs]

I'm looking forward to an issue of the S16 tire change video even more.

 

[meepmeepmayer]

14 hours ago, techyiam said:

At eWheels and other other distributors/dealers, both the V11 and the V12 are among the best selling wheels.

Surprise! Wheels that are under 2500, in fact closer to 2000 than 2500, look good, are well built, have plenty enough performance for most people, and are modern designs with suspension or other features instead of being 5+ year old designs with questionable electronics (that are nearly as expensive) sell well! It's a complete mystery how that could be the case. (Not snarking at you... but at the manufacturers and their pricing).

The S16 might very well be the hit wheel of 2024. The price is right. If it doesn't suck completely for some reason... 50kph or 60kph (sure 60 would be nice but it must not increase the price too much), who cares, it's exactly what new riders (minus the performance enthusiasts) can enjoy!

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

@techyiam, great recap and writeup. But…

Wider than what exactly? S16, V12 HS, V11 and V11Y all have the same 3”width, which was the standard until knobby tires took the markets. Knobbies are slightly wider due to the knobs. Like on the V12 HT.

Still need to confirm, but we know the tire that comes with the S16 should be a tire of at least the size 16x3.0. Which is the stock tire size for the V12 (HS). The V12 HT comes with a stock tire size of 3.00-12, which is even bigger. But even on the V12 (HS), the stock 16x3.0 tire is good enough for 70 km/h, so 60 km/h top speed shouldn't be a problem. However, for a 84V, 1500 Wh wheel, I would think the 60 km/h top speed is really about head room.

[techyiam]

23 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The S16 might very well be the hit wheel of 2024. The price is right. If it doesn't suck completely for some reason... 50kph or 60kph (sure 60 would be nice but it must not increase the price too much), who cares, it's exactly what new riders (minus the performance enthusiasts) can enjoy!

I agree that on paper, so far, both the S16 and V11Y are looking good, and at a good value. 

[meepmeepmayer]

14 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I agree that on paper, so far, both the S16 and V11Y are looking good, and at a good value. 

We still don't know the V11Y price, right? I hope there will be no bad surprise there.

[techyiam]

15 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

We still don't know the V11Y price, right? I hope there will be no bad surprise there.

Not officially.  I was just going by what a reply from ewheels.com said: ~$2200 USD.

Quote

Good to hear from you. Yes, I can confirm that the V11Y is going to be available in the next few months, with the upgraded Raptor controller, more power & speed. The price is expected to be about $2,200. Would you like to put in a $500 deposit for one of those? 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by techyiam

[meepmeepmayer]

44 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Not officially.  I was just going by what a reply from ewheels.com said: ~$2200 USD.

This would have been the opportunity to go 1999 with the V11Y. Oh well, I guess it's low enough... barely.

-

Is there any consensus on what the "?" in the S16 price is going to be?

1999?

1899?

1799?

(I can't see it being less, though that would sure be nice.)

[techyiam]

16 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

This would have been the opportunity to go 1999 with the V11Y. Oh well, I guess it's low enough... barely.

-

Is there any consensus on what the "?" in the S16 price is going to be?

1999?

1899?

1799?

(I can't see it being less, though that would sure be nice.)

$2799 CAD ($2068 USD) at smartwheel.ca

Unofficially, it could be $1999 USD.

Kingsong S16 at smartwheel.ca

 

[Funky]

It will be 1999$ for sure.. Otherwise all "older" models that cost 2000$ would become diminished. Heck even if it cost 1999$, 18xl and 16x would become diminished, if weight isn't important to you. 

Who would ever buy wheel like 18xl or 16x that cost 2000$. If we got same price S16 that has everything "new & modern"... 

Or are they stopping making older models? Heck even someone like me - who hates the 30kg weight would even take S16 over 16x or 18xl. Because it's only 5kg heavier. Need be i can deal with it. Yes - it will be harder to carry it around, etc.. But still you get so much more for the same price. Sad that it doesn't have a good carry handle!!! That alone makes me wanna go with older models, even knowing i'm losing so much performance and goodies by not taking S16. 

Why we don't get good carry handles anymore?? -  KingSong was known for having best handles..

I wonder can the 16S be carried by the front handle one handed? Can that handle hold it's weight alone? (I don't wanna use two hands while carrying euc.)

Edited September 16, 2023 by Funky

[jimjam.nyc]

I don't understand why people would vote for LESS performance, and older almost outdated batteries just because they don't ride at the performance ceiling of a wheel. 

If you don't want to go 60kph don't. I don't see anything negative about updating the batteries to better performing cells and giving the wheel a little more top end. 

If weight doesn't change, and price is not affected to end consumer. why would anyone say NO Make a weaker wheel with less safety margin. 

I sometimes don't understand the thought process here.

 

 

 

[Pengloong]

12 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I don't understand why people would vote for LESS performance, and older almost outdated batteries just because they don't ride at the performance ceiling of a wheel. 

If you don't want to go 60kph don't. I don't see anything negative about updating the batteries to better performing cells and giving the wheel a little more top end. 

If weight doesn't change, and price is not affected to end consumer. why would anyone say NO Make a weaker wheel with less safety margin. 

I sometimes don't understand the thought process here.

 

 

 

Well said. I absolutely agree.

[Paradox]

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Is there any consensus on what the "?" in the S16 price is going to be?

Unfortunately.  $1999.00 

https://revrides.com/products/king-song-s16-suspension-electric-unicycle

[mrelwood]

 

2 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

why would anyone say NO Make a weaker wheel with less safety margin.

Upgrading the cells is one thing, and a welcomed feature for sure. But increasing the limited top speed in itself doesn’t increase the safety margin. Quite the opposite.

[jimjam.nyc]

28 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

Upgrading the cells is one thing, and a welcomed feature for sure. But increasing the limited top speed in itself doesn’t increase the safety margin. Quite the opposite.

I don't know. You guys are kind of playing with words to support a point of view.

If the wheel is using pwm for safety with good battery management and software, having higher discharge cells would allow for more utilization of the power within an already acceptable safety margin. So what would be the difference? As long as the 20% or whatever safety margin is still there.

The only thing I see is that some just are against allowing for higher top speed no matter what. Which is cool, but call it what it is.

 

[Funky]

4 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I don't understand why people would vote for LESS performance, and older almost outdated batteries just because they don't ride at the performance ceiling of a wheel. 

If you don't want to go 60kph don't. I don't see anything negative about updating the batteries to better performing cells and giving the wheel a little more top end. 

If weight doesn't change, and price is not affected to end consumer. why would anyone say NO Make a weaker wheel with less safety margin. 

I sometimes don't understand the thought process here.

 

 

 

The thing would be... It would have less safety margin. Sure batteries will make it go faster 60km/h.. But still, wouldn't it be pushing it? Won't it go already in safety margin territory? If wheel was made for 50km/h speeds?

Same thing as 16x that is 50km/h wheel. But reality it's closer to 45km/h.. It would be same thing with S16 then.. Sure some people could ride to the 60km/h speeds, no question asked.. But how safe it would be then? That's the real question.

And yes better cells for much more power/speed is welcomed. But only if we don't lose any safety over it.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Funky

[jimjam.nyc]

13 minutes ago, Funky said:

The thing would be... It would have less safety margin. Sure batteries will make it go faster 60km/h.. But still, wouldn't it be pushing it? Won't it go already in safety margin territory? If wheel was made for 50km/h speeds?

Same thing as 16x that is 50km/h wheel. But reality it's closer to 45km/h.. It would be same thing with S16 then.. Sure some people could ride to the 60km/h speeds, no question asked.. But how safe it would be then? That's the real question.

And yes better cells for much more power/speed is welcomed. But only if we don't lose any safety over it.

We have 16in wheels that can go 60kph safely these days. 

I belive this wheel already weighs around what a v12 is. Has good suspension to add stability, and has a motor which should be able to handle over 50kph.

16x was a long time ago. I have to believe kingsong has made some progress to allow safety at a slightly higher top end.

I also just wonder if Jason said everything he did and worded it slightly different. Saying a little bit more power instead of giving a number for top speed, if people would still say "nope don't do it, not needed"

What he is suggesting makes the wheel more in line with what should be its weight to power in my opinion, and may make it more appealing. Especially at that price!

If the wheel was a bunch lighter and thinner, etc. Maybe there would be reason to not try and change anything.

[meepmeepmayer]

I agree that regarding technology, it should be no problem to up the speed. Question is, do you want KS to make last minute changes that they have not planned for? Not sure about the results (if they rush it) or how long that would take (if it needs hardware adaptions and not just a firmware change).

A speedy release is a quality of its own, too.

I guess since @Jason McNeilapproached KS about this and he surely has some insights on what people buy, upping the speed is rather a good idea though.

[Drunkard]

5 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I don't understand why people would vote for LESS performance, and older almost outdated batteries just because they don't ride at the performance ceiling of a wheel. 

25 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

We have 16in wheels that can go 60kph safely these days. 

26 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

16x was a long time ago. I have to believe kingsong has made some progress to allow safety at a slightly higher top end.

But nothing that would be <100V. Remember that just a few years ago there was still HS and HT motors? Sure some wheels have good low end torque and good top speed like a Patton but to expect they can replicate that at lower voltage motors with less battery is optimistic. Personally I would HATE if they fucked up low end torque and zippiness of a perfectly good wheel just because they tried to tune it in a way to give a bit more top speed. Specially when the only people asking for it to have a bit top speed are the people who will not be even buying this wheel. 

 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, jimjam.nyc said:

We have 16in wheels that can go 60kph safely these days. 

I belive this wheel already weighs around what a v12 is. Has good suspension to add stability, and has a motor which should be able to handle over 50kph.

16x was a long time ago. I have to believe kingsong has made some progress to allow safety at a slightly higher top end.

I also just wonder if Jason said everything he did and worded it slightly different. Saying a little bit more power instead of giving a number for top speed, if people would still say "nope don't do it, not needed"

What he is suggesting makes the wheel more in line with what should be its weight to power in my opinion, and may make it more appealing. Especially at that price!

If the wheel was a bunch lighter and thinner, etc. Maybe there would be reason to not try and change anything.

Other 16" wheels aside from T4 and V12 are 40kg+.. With bigger batteries. And much stronger motors.

So...? Yes even those wheels can be made to go 70-80km/h speeds. Or even more - if you don't care about safety.

Yeah i also would like to have 60km/h wheel. But in reality i'm not gearing up and ride only around ~25km/h speed to/from job daily. So i don't really care if it goes 50km/h or 60km/h. Tomayto - Tomahto. I'm still waiting for wheel under 20kg to be released.. Because i don't care about speed and range.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Funky

[Mono]

On 9/16/2023 at 3:10 PM, jimjam.nyc said:

If weight doesn't change, and price is not affected to end consumer. why would anyone say NO Make a weaker wheel with less safety margin. 

I sometimes don't understand the thought process here.

It's not that complicated. Some people do check whether if-conditions actually hold. In contrast to more torque, I consider more weight and more speed rather as a safety risk than a feature. Also, I am legally bound by a speed limit of 25km/h and I couldn't possibly see any good reason to care for a safety margin beyond 50km/h.

[Circuitmage]

Comparing the KS S16 and the IM V11Y,

The V11Y is an 18x3" wheel, and weighs less.

Just my $.02. 

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, Circuitmage said:

The V11Y is an 18x3" wheel, and weighs less.

The V11Y may or may not weigh less, depending whether or not Kingsong at a recent trade show in Germany was telling Denis Hagov the truth.

Edited September 18, 2023 by techyiam