Kingsong S16 coming...

[techyiam]

On 9/26/2023 at 7:56 PM, EUC BB said:

Imagine there is no low battery protection, your euc loses power without warning and has no balance, and you happen to be traveling at 50mph (without a seatbelt).

An occupant without seat belt inside a car that has crashed would have smashed into the interior of the car.

Motorcycles are regulated federally in both Canada and the US. Notice that motorcycles are not required to have seat belts.

I actually had a rookie officer telling me that I was violation because I wasn't wearing a seat belt on my motorcycle. I politely asked this officer to check with the other officers. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by techyiam

[Kingsong second hand eucs]

21 minutes ago, techyiam said:

An occupant without seat belt inside a car that has crashed would have smashed into the interior of the car.

Motorcycles are regulated federally in both Canada and the US. Notice that motorcycles are not required to have seat belts.

I was actually had a rookie officer telling me that I was violation because I wasn't wearing a seat belt on my motorcycle. I politely asked this officer to check with the other officers. 

No need to take my words seriously, I was just kidding.EUCs don't have seatbelts.

[mrelwood]

8 hours ago, EUC BB said:

Imagine there is no low battery protection, your euc loses power without warning

Not sure why I’d want to imagine something like that. EUCs don’t just suddenly lose power, with or without warning. Batteries are not like a gas tank that runs empty and then all of a sudden provides zero power.

8 hours ago, EUC BB said:

So all those people complaining about mandatory speed limits on low power don't think about their own safety?

This I do agree with though. It’s ridiculous to think that the rider would be able to take all the necessary aspects in consideration when determining how fast one can ride or accelerate at any given time. Especially as the battery depletes.

[xafofo]

seems like s16 is looking good so far

 

[macgyvercanada]

Hoping to straight-replace my V11 with an S16 if the build quality turns out to be okay, and so far it's looking promising!

[xafofo]

more videos! anyone understand Thai or Portuguese?

it looks like they've evolved the S19-style touch-sensitive kill switch and now you need 2 hands to activate it

 

[macgyvercanada]

Thanks for sharing!  They really gave it a good thrashing in the Thai video; looks like it's perfectly capable of handling the worst that I'd throw at it.  Barring any unexpected new models coming out or early production problems, I think I have my next wheel picked out.

[Hellkitten]

On 11/6/2023 at 3:42 PM, macgyvercanada said:

Hoping to straight-replace my V11 with an S16 if the build quality turns out to be okay, and so far it's looking promising!

Can’t say I blame ya for switching brands…..

[macgyvercanada]

1 minute ago, Hellkitten said:

Can’t say I blame ya for switching brands…..

I hear KingSong hasn't exactly been the most reliable lately either, but maybe I'm willing to give 'em a chance.

[Hellkitten]

8 minutes ago, macgyvercanada said:

I hear KingSong hasn't exactly been the most reliable lately either, but maybe I'm willing to give 'em a chance.

I hope your next wheel whatever it is works perfectly. 
I have zero euc brand loyalty and have at least one from each of the big companies. They’re all different in their own way. Just be careful buying a first batch wheel from any manufacturer. I’ve avoided that and so far so good. 🤞🏻

[techyiam]

5 hours ago, macgyvercanada said:

I hear KingSong hasn't exactly been the most reliable lately either, but maybe I'm willing to give 'em a chance.

On paper, and strong endorsement from Zen Lee, the S16 does look stout contender in its class. However, Kiingsong's track record has been dismal, and IMO, hasn't proven themselves yet.

I would say buying first batch Kingsong wheels is extra risky.

But then, you are aware going in.

For those who have the knowhow and the facility to work on wheels, and don't mind the hassle, it could be manageable, and may not even have regret.

Best of luck.

Edited November 8, 2023 by techyiam

[macgyvercanada]

16 hours ago, techyiam said:

For those who have the knowhow and the facility to work on wheels, and don't mind the hassle, it could be manageable, and may not even have regret.

I would consider myself a reluctant tinkerer; I don't mind doing the work if I can improve performance.  But fixing broken stuff just irks me.

[Saboteur_ZA]

16 hours ago, techyiam said:

However, Kingsong's track record has been dismal.

I would say buying first batch Kingsong wheels is extra risky.

Dismal? Based on one wheel (assuming you're referring to the S20/S22)? I don't understand the negativity towards KS because of issues with one wheel. Meanwhile I've read about issues with wheels from other brands regularly. Even the same brands that are praised today. As an example, the thread on all the issues with the V12. Seemingly people could move past that but not for KingSong for some reason. The S19, for example, I've only heard good things, even for the first batch. But yet... and not just your post, but others with the same sentiment. You're entitled of course, I'm just puzzled. KS haven't been churning out wheels like the other brands. Which is also ok by me, as long as they're worth waiting for. Feels like a crazy race to release wheels among other brands, I'm worried that quality and testing are being compromised.

[macgyvercanada]

Agreed; seems like a real frenzy to get new models out there rather than having a smaller, more refined lineup.  I'm all for iterative design process as long as it's not my face suffering the failures.  Hopefully KS has learned some lessons from the S22 issues and early S19 reviews.

[techyiam]

13 hours ago, Saboteur_ZA said:

Based on one wheel (assuming you're referring to the S20/S22)? I don't understand the negativity towards KS because of issues with one wheel.

I guess you have never own an S20 or S22. Mind you, out of the box, the S18 had problems too.

To date, the sliders are still not properly designed. And this is supposedly be an off-road wheel, yet the sliders are not sealed. Sure, roller sliders can help, but it is not a complete solution. 

I don't ride off-road, but I ride in the rain. Just one ride in the rain, and the sliders' inside got dirty. The S22 can be a very high maintenance wheel if one is fussy. 

If I am not mistaken, the S19, S16, and etc all still have sliders that are not sealed.

I have read on Facebook that there were a number units of S19's that had dead battery packs. Incidentally, my S22 originally had dead battery packs too.

13 hours ago, Saboteur_ZA said:

Meanwhile I've read about issues with wheels from other brands regularly.

Both the Master and the S22 were colossal screwups.  Both wheels required attention out of the box, big time. There were serious issues, and numerous less critical issues.

Incidentally, I couldn't ride my S22 after I unboxed it, even after I got my second unit. The stiction was so high, the suspension was basically locked. Additionally, one battery pack wouldn't charge to 100%. What was crazy was that I have a late batch S22. But the issues that I was encountering were the same ones Eco-Drift Life 's S20 teardown video. Kingsong did very little to resolve issues. Unbelievable.

13 hours ago, Saboteur_ZA said:

As an example, the thread on all the issues with the V12. Seemingly people could move past that but not for KingSong for some reason.

I also own a V12 (HS, early batch). It did have issues. The worst was the under designed driver board. But for me, I had never had a cutout. However, Inmotion did resolve those issues. Going back to Kingsong and the S22. Kingsong never did a recall for the defective motors that had the slipping stators. Eeevees had to paid out of their own pockets for some of the motor replacements. Moreover, Kingsong gave an OK to production even though the controller was weak and would be prone to failure. Then there were the sliders, which to this date still have not done a recall. Looking back, MadPack made the right call. The S20 was not ready for production. I did not know how bad, until I bought one.

But don't get me wrong. Having resolve the issues myself, I like the way how the S22 ride. But out of the box, it was bad. However, I got mine at a considerable discount, and I knew what I was getting myself into before pulling the trigger. I am a happy camper with my S22, finally.

Inmotion redeem themselves with the V13. But the jury is still out with Kingsong. We are still waiting to see how good Kingsong's next product will be, since the S22. But so far, the S19 has some issues reported already. But I think it is being resolved. I like the S19 when I had an opportunity to hop on one in a showroom. It seemed to be very polished, and felt well balanced. But would I buy an early batch Kingsong? Nope.

I was more hesitant to buy Begode wheels before, after my T3 ownership experience, but now that we have seen with the Extreme, I think Begode is on the right track to improve their reputation.

13 hours ago, Saboteur_ZA said:

The S19, for example, I've only heard good things, even for the first batch. But yet... and not just your post, but others with the same sentiment.

Potentially, the S19 and S16 can be good wheels. I like the way how my S22 rides. The S19 rode nicely. That is not the issue.

For those who don't expect issues from a brand new wheel after unboxing, I would recommend them to buy a RadPower, perhaps. For EUC's in most likelihood there will be some problems. However, with Kingsong, it is hard to know how bad these issues will be, and how numerous. Also, who know which of the issues Kingsong will be willing to resolve. For those who don't want to deal with a lot of hassle, I don't recommend them to buy an early batch Kingsong, until proven otherwise.

Edited November 9, 2023 by techyiam

[Saboteur_ZA]

20 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I guess you have never own an S20 or S22. I couldn't ride my S22 after I unboxed it, even after I got my second unit. The stiction was so high, the suspension was basically locked. Additionally, one battery pack wouldn't charge to 100%. What was crazy was that I have a late batch S22.

Thanks for your detailed reply. I was not aware that the latest batch S22 still had issues. I had a narrow escape then! Was about to buy the S22 Pro, but decided last minute to get the T4 instead. My thinking was to get a suspension wheel to tide me over while I wait to see what KingSong comes out with in 2024 - particularly keen to see what the "F-series" performance wheels will be all about. I think your first wheel is probably always special. I still believe in KingSong. Hope they give me reason to continue!

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Saboteur_ZA said:

Thanks for your detailed reply. I was not aware that the latest batch S22 still had issues. I had a narrow escape then! Was about to buy the S22 Pro, but decided last minute to get the T4 instead. My thinking was to get a suspension wheel to tide me over while I wait to see what KingSong comes out with in 2024 - particularly keen to see what the "F-series" performance wheels will be all about. I think your first wheel is probably always special. I still believe in KingSong. Hope they give me reason to continue!

To be fair, the stock roller sliders in the S22 Pro will improve the sliders in a big way. However, the sliders are still not sealed.

I am still using the stock sliders in my S22. Just after 1 ride in the rain, I decided to pull off the shock to examine the sliders. The stiction actually is not too bad, but the amount of grit that got in was just ridiculous. The slides are indeed being grind away, rapidly. So, it looks like I will have to put in roller sliders.

2 hours ago, Saboteur_ZA said:

My thinking was to get a suspension wheel to tide me over while I wait to see what KingSong comes out with in 2024 - particularly keen to see what the "F-series" performance wheels will be all about. I think your first wheel is probably always special. I still believe in KingSong. Hope they give me reason to continue!

The F-series intrigues indeed. But Kingsong has been pretty tight lipped about it, unfortunately. 

I bought the S22 because I like the way it rides, it was discounted, and I wanted to see whether a 20" suspension would do for me. After I got a few things sorted on my S22, I think a suspension 20" wheel could be sufficient for my use case. I don't think I need to restrict myself to 22" wheels.

Since you are in Toronto, if you haven't already, you should test ride some wheels. You should at test ride at least the Patton. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by techyiam

[Saboteur_ZA]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Since you are in Toronto, if you haven't already, you should test ride some wheels. You should at test ride the Patton. 

It seems quite a few people love the Patton. There was one available for test ride when I picked up my T4. Didn't bother because of 2 reasons... Mainly, 40kg is too heavy for my liking. I have a threshold of 35kg in my mind. Second, more trivial, reason is I find it a really ugly design! With apologies to all the fans.

[zaft]

The fact that this wheel was easy to over torque more than once publicly on the first ride makes me rethink it. 
 

well that and it’s way overweight 🙃

Edited November 10, 2023 by zaft

[macgyvercanada]

Weight is a big factor for me as well, but a 1500'ish Wh pack is about right for my needs so 30-35kg.  I want a wheel that's nimble and not too intimidating to the general public.  Suspension is a must-have.  I haven't tried an EUC larger than the V11 though.

[xafofo]

another video, summary:

• pedals aren't centered (offset forward). ppl with bigger feet may find their heels dangling off the back
• super zippy acceleration
  • wheel is heavier than 16X but feels lighter
  • might give ppl a false sense of power as you can reach cutoff speed easily
• freespin of 70 km/h
• tire not great for offroad turns (fine for offroad straight though)
• suspension is too light, lots of initial sag

 

 

[macgyvercanada]

Quote

• pedals aren't centered (offset forward). ppl with bigger feet may find their heels dangling off the back

That's actually great for a normal-foot guy like me.  I'm always hanging my toes over the front of my pedals.

 

Quote

• super zippy acceleration
  • wheel is heavier than 16X but feels lighter
  • might give ppl a false sense of power as you can reach cutoff speed easily
• freespin of 70 km/h

I like zippy; I'd happily limit the max speed limit to give some room before a cut-off.  42 km/h is a good max speed for me.

 

Quote

• tire not great for offroad turns (fine for offroad straight though)

NOT good.  I spend lots of time offroad.  The fender looks to have very little clearance; if that's not adjustable then installing a knobbier tire might be impossible.  If I can't swap that tire then that might be the deal-breaker for me...

 

Quote

• suspension is too light, lots of initial sag

Not so bad as long as you can install an aftermarket shock absorber.  Or, you know, if Kingsong ups their game with a decent stock shock.

Edited November 15, 2023 by macgyvercanada

[eezo]

11 hours ago, xafofo said:

• pedals aren't centered (offset forward). ppl with bigger feet may find their heels dangling off the back

Offset forward is a good thing. Centered pedals are not a good position, ankle bone should be centered. This is one of the best things about the wheel that I wish more companies would do or give the option of. 

[xafofo]

1 hour ago, eezo said:

Offset forward is a good thing. Centered pedals are not a good position, ankle bone should be centered. This is one of the best things about the wheel that I wish more companies would do or give the option of. 

agreed

this still from Zen's video gives an idea of how offset it is. Looks like maybe around 1.5 inches or so

 

[Rawnei]

16 minutes ago, xafofo said:

agreed

this still from Zen's video gives an idea of how offset it is. Looks like maybe around 1.5 inches or so

 

I disagree with offset forward being good position for pedals.

I don't think it comes like this from factory, it's the same mounting system as S22, I'm sure Zen Lee or Topspin mounted them this way.