eWheels Tucson Service Center Fire, Site Destroyed

[Waulnut]

12 minutes ago, Giffy said:

have there been any logistics published about how many wheels are produced each year?

Likely eWheels would know because they have a large rider base and is in the business for the longest (I think). 

[Mr. Thompson]

Jason - Very sorry to hear the sad news. Your drive and ethics have built a clean business which truly serves the PEV community. My wife and I will keep you and your staff in our prayers. 

[Rehab1]

I am extremely distraught hearing this news Jason. You did everything right by trusting in yourself, following your passion, building a great team and establishing a superb business model with excellent customer service.

The overwhelming amount of support you’ve received is breathtaking. I pray each  heartfelt comment gives you a sense of warmth, pride and accomplishment to help comfort and guide you through these trying times. God bless!🙏

[OldFartRides]

Jason,

 Remember that old Christmas movie “It’s a Wonderful Life” ?

George Bailey is at the end of his rope and ready to jump off a bridge. He gets to see what life would be like in his little town were it not for him being there. He sees how his kindness and good deeds affected all those lives around him.

When he gets home all the people he helped out over the years come to his house and help out with what they can spare.

There’s an old saying: “ Accepting the gift honors the giver”.

This little community wants to help out in this crisis.

Just a thought.

Best,

Edited November 2, 2021 by OldFartRides
Spelling

[No1up]

22 minutes ago, OldFartRides said:

Jason,

 Remember that old Christmas movie “It’s a Wonderful Life” ?

George Bailey is at the end of his rope and ready to jump off a bridge. He gets to see what life would be like in his little town we’re it not for him being there. He sees how his kindness and good deeds affected all those lives around him.

When he gets home all the people he helped out over the years come to his house and help out with what they can spare.

There’s an old saying: “ Accepting the gift honors the giver”.

This little community wants to help out in this crisis.

Just a thought.

Best,

Exactly... Exactly.  

[FlyboyEUC]

This is the only news article I've been able to find. The video clearly shows that the entire building was in flames. I was hoping only part of the warehouse burned. 

https://www.kold.com/2021/10/31/rural-metro-fire-fights-commercial-building-blaze/ 

Edited November 2, 2021 by FlyboyEUC

[GothamMike]

It's those darn OneWheel punks! 

Recall LG Chem has had to recall battery packs for the Chevy Bolt, Chevy was recommending folks do not charge their cars indoors.

Jason, we are here for you. 

[Scubadragonsan]

Really unfortunate! Not a pleasant sight to see wheels go up on fire. They all are my lovely toys, though I don't own them all. I know Jason's passion for these wheels and business will make a strong come back and every wheeler is behind him! Best of luck!

[U-Stride]

This is terrible news. Glad no one was hurt 

[Rodo]

Awful news, sorry to hear that. Glad no one was hurt. Is there anything the community here can do to help?

[AtlasP]

I have been so distraught over this news the past few days I couldn't even figure out how to process it fully.

I think we cannot underestimate the significance/impact the loss of eWheels would have to the global EUC market (affecting everyone, including in regions not even served by eWheels.) As the world's largest distributer, eWheels was uniquely in the position of being our primary insurance and defense against questionable practices by the manufacturers (including repeated design blunders, shoddy QA, corner-cutting, etc.), especially in the ability to exert pressure on manufactures to address issues in a way far-exceeding that of smaller distributors or individual consumers. In a world without eWheels, yes EUCs would still be manufactured and sold, and some of those other distributors might turn out to be decent businesses with decent support--but are they going to make the manufacturers actually ship better wheels in the way/to the degree that eWheels has obviously been doing for years? (Demanding high-impact design changes/fixes, actually sending teams to China to audit & advise on assembly & QA processes[!], etc. No-one else is doing those things on that scale to my knowledge.) It is mortifying to think of a world where we could be at the mercy of the manufacturers unchecked by eWheels' stewardship.

I am at least heartened to see so many people speaking to their willingness to support eWheels through this time through things like fundraising, and if it comes to the point where that could make the difference in the decision and ability of eWheels to continue operations, I do hope that it will be re-considered as an option. Also while it may seem insignificant by comparison, I'm sure there are many--myself included--who could be willing to actually show up on location to help with any physical rebuilding/getting things set up again in a new space. (It may seem trivial, but someone will need to assemble shelves and set up office computers and eventually help organize equipment and inventory, etc.--a few extra competent hands and especially minds can make a huge difference with orchestrating and achieving such logistical challenges with quick turnaround/minimal downtime.)

We're all pulling for you, Jason. Best wishes and let us know if and how we can help.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by AtlasP

[Paul A]

Maybe sell an arbitrary 49% or less nominal equity stake to Elon Musk, a silent investor.

Retain full control.

Would seem to be a good natural fit with synergies.

 

 

 

[Unventor]

I guess the investigation of the fire might bring some closure to the frustration of current situation. 

But I guess what most is thinking a battery or faulty wheel caused this. And I can't help thinking what brand has been highlighted mostly with battery fires lately.

As a consumer I think you have a vote what you back and what you like to see going forward. I know many riders like the "performance" brands (I dislike that term, as all can perform, but if you want speed and or range, GW-like is the band people choose).

I guess some dislike this being pointed out, and yes it could happen to any brand. BUT for some reason we see this from GW more frequently. Of that is down to how people use their wheels or design or quality control I can't say. I couldn't make out if it only had EUCs or also other PEVs at the site. 

Now I do hope Ewheels can rebuild. But as customers we do have a serious choice to make too. Unfortunately I can't help as much as being in EU Ewheels wasn't really an option for me to buy from. But I still hope when people ask I can point to a great reseller for future riders. 

And to those that will comment on me being anti-GW, yep I sure am. But I do hope all brands take this as a wake-up call. Batteries are not toys, they can be dangerous. 

Now as far as I could read none seem to be hurt in the fire. Which is a great thing.

I do hope we very soon will see a safer new battery technology. The first brand that choose to use it is likely to get a lot of sales, or at least that is my prediction. 

I hope @Jason McNeil will and can share more details once an investigation have come to a conclusion.

It is truly a sad incident. This is how life is unfortunate. One can't help thinking electric cars and more PEVs for the future, how do we mitigate the battery risks until a safer battery is ready?

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

Of that is down to how people use their wheels or design or quality control I can't say.

I think theres definitely an element of that in the mix. Theres no doubt in my mind that GW riders push their wheels harder than any other brand, and could account for some percentage of the fires, but we do seem to have had a spike in issues since the 900Wh packs were created. It would be really nice to just know what the hell is going on. From my knowledge, discounting the abuse that riders give GW wheels in general, there didn't seem to be any unusually great number of fires in the good old MSX days, where either 800Wh or 615Wh packs were used. And again to my knowledge, the BMS's haven't had any major design changes over the years either.

And clearly Jason had his concerns over the 900Wh packs.

So what gives?

From where I'm standing, this mayhem all started when they went to 21700 cells. Anyone got any better ideas?

[UbeRoll]

My condolences to Jason and his business. I have purchased 4 wheels from him and he has taken cared of any issues I've had. Customer service is first class, and I know, I've taught it for 15 years. 

While this setback is terrible, I know Jason and eWheels will recover from this. I plan on getting more wheels, and I will keep buying them from eWheels. 

[Flying W]

4 hours ago, Planemo said:

From where I'm standing, this mayhem all started when they went to 21700 cells. Anyone got any better ideas?

 

I would have rather had two 800wh 18650 packs in my RS. I think a 6p setup would do better on voltage drop, not stressing the cells as much. Accelerate hard at full charge you can drop into the 60s percentage wise. 

I love the RS, but I don't trust the batteries. With the 16s and MCM5 I never thought about the batteries like do with the RS. I know the risk is very low, but of your the unlucky one and you wheels are in your house it could be very bad.

I know we all want to help Jason, but accepting help also kind of has a mental obligation to continue eWheels too. I get the impression that's it too soon to make that choice. 

eWheels went so far beyond what I would expect from a business so many times for me. If Jason decides to rise like a Phoenix and needs extra man power I'd take time off and be there to help, if funding becomes an issue and he jets us all donate I'll gladly help and if having this shitty turn events causes him to have to go in a different direct (maybe design and manufacture EUCs in a country where the patent rat can't sue.....I can dream right?) Then I'll understand.

I really hope it's not the end of an era, I'm far to selfish to deal with that very well! 

PS If foul play if found to be involved I think we're all allowed to grab out pitch forks! 

 

[Unventor]

9 hours ago, Planemo said:

......editor cut....

And clearly Jason had his concerns over the 900Wh packs.

So what gives?

From where I'm standing, this mayhem all started when they went to 21700 cells. Anyone got any better ideas?

Now I don't want to take the focus away from the tragic event that occurred.

My post your replied to was my "diplomatic" way  of saying not just one thing cause problems. And the more things are pushed to the limit the higher risk you have  the weakest link will give. Most that buy a GW, use it for how they have market their wheel. Pushing them hard, and it is easy to forget that it puts the wheel under stress. 

If you do the same to a car that isn't build for this treatment then that causes problems too. Just as an example.If once buy a state of art race car, then it is designed not with small brake and ordinary suspension. And the price goes up according. But this doesn't work like this in GW "performance" wheels. 

[winterwheel]

On 10/31/2021 at 5:55 AM, Jason McNeil said:

At this particular moment, what is becoming increasingly apparent is that trying to continue the fight against unfavourable risks & the broader economic policy environment isn't viable.

There's a lot more going on here for eWheels than just this fire. Hopefully it wasn't the proverbial last straw.

 

 

[lordkaosu]

8 years is a long time to run a business without taking a salary.

[StefanBRO]

I really do feel for Jason having been stuck in this situation. However some questions do arise... If the fire started in the parts area how did it spread into the pack storage area? there should be proper separation from these areas especially when there is a large amount of packs sitting in reserve. Working with large amounts of lithium batteries can be quite dangerous, proper storage and fire suppression is a must. He says the packs were stored in an industrial refrigeration unit. From what I understand those would be full of flammable insulation? I feel like a steel shipping container with A/C would do just as well and be more resistant to fire. I'm sad that he has stated a Gotway 900wh pack is the "prime suspect". At this time this is just speculation, all its done so far is start to turn this thread into a "I hate Gotway" echo chamber. Yes, there have been issues with their packs. Yes, their build quality and QC could be a LOT better. Yes, the shift to an LG 21700 with a 28A in 4P max discharge is sketchy on a motor capable of pulling 60+A. But lets not blame them right away. Sorry this happened to you Jason, you guys have really pushed the EUC market foreword. Hopefully you can recover from this catastrophe.

[Paul A]

On 11/1/2021 at 5:08 AM, Jason McNeil said:

with particular focus to the 900Wh Begodes—storing them in a low humdity industrial refrigeration unit

 

Regardless of what the cause of the fire is eventually determined to be........ eWheels was so concerned about the safety of the Begode batteries that they were singled out and given special safety treatment different from other batteries.

 

Storage in a low humidity industrial refrigeration unit.

This is quite an extraordinary degree of safety measure deemed necessary by eWheels that indicates the level and likelihood of threat.

End users unlikely to be able to replicate the same safety measures.

 

As the planned battery recall seems unlikely to proceed, it seems prudent that owners of Gotway/Begode wheels with these batteries should be made aware and take extra precautions, perhaps such as storage outside in an isolated area away from other flammable materials.

 

Not sure members should be viewing concerned posts as 'Gotway hating'.

[RagingGrandpa]

4 minutes ago, Paul A said:

it seems prudent that owners <> take extra precautions

Fire safety education and planning is valuable for all PMD users. Introductory reading and resources are readily available below

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/tags/fire safety/

[StefanBRO]

17 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Regardless of what the cause of the fire is eventually determined to be........ eWheels was so concerned about the safety of the Begode batteries that they were singled out and given special safety treatment different from other batteries.

As the planned battery recall seems unlikely to proceed, it seems prudent that owners of Gotway/Begode wheels with these batteries should be made aware and take extra precautions, perhaps such as storage outside in an isolated area away from other flammable materials.

All lithium packs should be treated the same way. There is an ENORMOUS amount of potential energy stored inside them. I wonder what about the 900WH packs makes them more prone to failure than the rest. I've heard it could be the tabs, moisture sealing, even the BMS. We as a community really need to push per-cell balancing and having the ability to see the individual voltages in our packs. Sounds like Jason was close to making that a reality before this unfortunate event.

[Paul A]

Don't know why Jason was treating the Begode 900wh packs differently.

He might have confidential inside information that we are not aware of.

Perhaps quality of battery pack assemblers may vary between differing companies.

There would have been a reason for eWheels to contract a third party to supply battery packs to replace the Begode/Gotway ones.

 

Product recall is an expensive undertaking.

Arrival at such a serious decision would not have been taken lightly.

It seems to clearly demonstrate that the assessed risk was so high that it was warranted.

Ewheels would presumably have better information than members.

 

Am aware that Elon Musk's tabless batteries are being hailed as a significant breakthrough in battery safety/technology/manufacturing as it greatly reduces the likelihood of catastrophic failure due to welding faults/burrs that can cause internal short circuiting.

[No1up]

17 hours ago, AtlasP said:

I have been so distraught over this news the past few days I couldn't even figure out how to process it fully.

I think we cannot underestimate the significance/impact the loss of eWheels could have to the global EUC market (affecting everyone, including in regions not even served by eWheels.) As the world's largest distributer, eWheels was uniquely in the position of being our primary insurance and defense against questionable practices by the manufacturers (including repeated design blunders, shoddy QA, corner-cutting, etc.), especially in the ability to exert pressure on manufactures to address issues in a way far-exceeding that of smaller distributors or individual consumers. In a world without eWheels, yes EUCs would still be manufactured and sold, and some of those other distributors might turn out to be decent businesses with decent support--but are they going to make the manufacturers actually ship better wheels in the way/to the degree that eWheels has obviously been doing for years? (Demanding high-impact design changes/fixes, actually sending teams to China to audit & advise on assembly & QA processes[!], etc. No-one else is doing those things on that scale to my knowledge.) It is mortifying to think of a world where we could be at the mercy of the manufacturers unchecked by eWheels' stewardship.

I am at least heartened to see so many people speaking to their willingness to support eWheels through this time through things like fundraising, and if it comes to the point where that could make the difference in the decision and ability of eWheels to continue operations, I do hope that it will be re-considered as an option. Also while it may seem insignificant by comparison, I'm sure there are many--myself included--who could be willing to actually show up on location to help with any physical rebuilding/getting things set up again in a new space. (It may seem trivial, but someone will need to assemble shelves and set up office computers and eventually help organize equipment and inventory, etc.--a few extra competent hands and especially minds can make a huge difference with orchestrating and achieving such logistical challenges with quick turnaround/minimal downtime.)

We're all pulling for you, Jason. Best wishes and let us know if and how we can help.

 

Me too, I've actually been depressed. Like my EUC riding is over. I won't buy am EUC outside of eWheels. I'd like to support Aliem Rides be he simple doesn't have the capacity ewheels has. My buddy is still waiting on a battery pack for his new RS19 with a faulty pack. 3 weeks later.

 

I HATE to say it, but I have a OW GT on order. I know.. I know.. but I love the community and riding together. I hate freemotion, but at least they are here sell a trust worthy product that can take a beating, and can at a VERY high cost repair the thing. They will  Nickel and dime you to death but you won't spend $2k+ and be stuck with a door stop. I wouldn't have a clue on how to get my sherman running again if it broke down. I love knowing I can contact Jason and he has my back. 

Talking to Jason, it seems he is going to stay with us. One foot in front of the other. I hope it stays that way. My heart simply isn't in it without jason and ewheels...