INMOTION V12

[ESB]

I’ve got 14 miles on the v12 so far. 9 today and 5 yesterday.

im having strange issue where I feel like I have to twist my body/torso slightly in order to go straight. It makes for an uncomfortable ride. I’ve played around with pedal sensitivity and split modes but I’m not sure it’s helping.

Readjusting my feet sometimes helps a bit but I haven’t quite figured out what is causing this. I certainly don’t feel like I’m putting more pressure on one side of the wheel than the other.

I’m coming from a 16s which is a lot lighter and shorter and has enormous pads. So I always knew there’d be a transition period. Wish it was faster lol.

im on highest pedal setting and max speed is set to 21mph.

[supercurio]

@ESB that makes sense coming from a very different wheel, especially in terms of height, with much higher pedals and weight. You'll need much longer hours of riding to really feel at home on it - at all speeds especially.

Could be because your stance is not really symmetrical on the pedals (which is okay) or power-pads not mirror exactly in terms of positioning (although you probably don't have any installed now).
But either way that shouldn't last forever.

[Unventor]

3 minutes ago, ESB said:

I’ve got 14 miles on the v12 so far. 9 today and 5 yesterday.

im having strange issue where I feel like I have to twist my body/torso slightly in order to go straight. It makes for an uncomfortable ride. I’ve played around with pedal sensitivity and split modes but I’m not sure it’s helping.

Readjusting my feet sometimes helps a bit but I haven’t quite figured out what is causing this. I certainly don’t feel like I’m putting more pressure on one side of the wheel than the other.

I’m coming from a 16s which is a lot lighter and shorter and has enormous pads. So I always knew there’d be a transition period. Wish it was faster lol.

im on highest pedal setting and max speed is set to 21mph.

Please keep in mind I have not ridden the V12 myself. 

But having the V11 I know the high pedals is very odd in the beginning. Also Inmotion wheels are in general slimmer of design and top heavy. 

So to make transition easier I suggest ride at lowest pedel height in the start. Set it into commuter mode. It might not be you preferred mode now or later but it changes the dynamics mode and it helps to get the Inmotion feel more. 

Since you are used to pads you might not have picked up that you use the legs differently. I prefer to have little to no pads myself. I have my support leg (right) a little behind as this is my brake. My acceleration is controlled by left leg and I stand a little wider too with this. I will lean the wheel towards my support leg but as I start to ride I get into where the wheel floats freely between both legs. Since I get tired in legs in different time/stages this is how I mitigate wobbles and to avoid turning to my support leg side. I have not been able to make video of this... Yet. But with new laptop in place I am like to do more videos once spring show itself. Too much snow here now. 

[houseofjob]

6 hours ago, ChiWestSider said:

I'm getting major braking wobbles on this wheel no matter where the pedals are placed.

Sorry, but like @Unventor says, wobbles is the riding execution more than it is the actual wheel. The V12 compounds this more than most wheels because all the wheel's internal net center of mass composition is a bit top-heavy, and the rider on-pedals tends to be on the higher side.

Anytime either the battery weight and/or rider weight is held higher away from the center of the wheel axle/center point like this (many of the thin older Inmotions do this along with the 18650 Nikolas), you're prone to wobbling because your body center of mass being held farther away from the stable wheel axle center is influenced more by the gyroscopic forces created by the spinning wheel.

The tendency for wobbling goes up even more if you do stuff like squeeze the wheel with both legs, brake both feet same weight displacement at the same time, hold your ankles in while braking.

 

At the onset of a wobble, I basically aim to alternate pumping one foot back heel brake force at a time, landing my down heel slightly away from the wheel body (front ball of foot stays centered) so that my leg forms an angle with the wheel, like it's a hypotenuse of a triangle (pedal and wheel body being 2 perpendicular sides) ala how guys ride one-footed.

What this does is form a kind of wobble / vibration dampening force, as you pick one side to focus your back lean force, thus the other side can't "compete" to form that wobble oscillation.

Also, if you exaggerate this alternating heel pumping, you eventually form the ever-so popular "carve to stop" that many explain, the obvious reason for doing so being to increase braking stopping distance, but if you take it to the next level, when you're mid-carve and the wheel is facing left or right, but your forward momentum is perpendicular to it in the forward direction, you can utilize the resistance of the wheel rubber-on-pavement as an additional "stopping force", not unlike a "hockey stop", or how skiiers/snowboarders brake by turning perpendicular the downward slope of a mountain and using the side-edge digging in the snow as a brake.

Edited December 10, 2021 by houseofjob

[Steve Evans]

1 hour ago, ESB said:

I’ve got 14 miles on the v12 so far. 9 today and 5 yesterday.

im having strange issmost of what ue where I feel like I have to twist my body/torso slightly in order to go straight. It makes for an uncomfortable ride. I’ve played around with pedal sensitivity and split modes but I’m not sure it’s helping.

Readjusting my feet sometimes helps a bit but I haven’t quite figured out what is causing this. I certainly don’t feel like I’m putting more pressure on one side of the wheel than the other.

I’m coming from a 16s which is a lot lighter and shorter and has enormous pads. So I always knew there’d be a transition period. Wish it was faster lol.

im on highest pedal setting and max speed is set to 21mph.

i have noticed similar. i think the v12 is affected by the slope/camber of the road. the wheel seems to turn toward the slope, forcing the rider to counter that. most of what i have read seems to point to the tire. i now have about 250 miles on my wheel and notice it waaaay less than at first. i dont know if that is tire wear or just me getting used to it.

i hope this helps.

steve

 

[pkinpdx]

13 minutes ago, evans036 said:

i have noticed similar. i think the v12 is affected by the slope/camber of the road. the wheel seems to turn toward the slope, forcing the rider to counter that. most of what i have read seems to point to the tire. i now have about 250 miles on my wheel and notice it waaaay less than at first. i dont know if that is tire wear or just me getting used to it.

i hope this helps.

steve

 

I think its more the CST tire that it ships with than the V12.  If you can get your hands on the H666, grab it.  I started accidentally going 40 mph once I switched to that tire.

[Steve Evans]

28 minutes ago, pkinpdx said:

I think its more the CST tire that it ships with than the V12.  If you can get your hands on the H666, grab it.  I started accidentally going 40 mph once I switched to that tire.

yes, that is consistent with everything i have read. i heard that H666 is very difficult to mount. was that your experience?

steve

[pkinpdx]

21 minutes ago, evans036 said:

yes, that is consistent with everything i have read. i heard that H666 is very difficult to mount. was that your experience?

steve

A little hard to get over the the rim, its easier with two people.  It took about 2 min of cursing for my buddy and I to get it over the rim.  Mine was really easy to get straight on the rim though.  Just make sure you stretch the inner portion of the tire back out for a couple days prior to trying to mount if it comes squished..  I put a pool noodle inside the tire and kept it in the house where it was warm.

[Steve Evans]

28 minutes ago, pkinpdx said:

A little hard to get over the the rim, its easier with two people.  It took about 2 min of cursing for my buddy and I to get it over the rim.  Mine was really easy to get straight on the rim though.  Just make sure you stretch the inner portion of the tire back out for a couple days prior to trying to mount if it comes squished..  I put a pool noodle inside the tire and kept it in the house where it was warm.

ok, thanks for the tip

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, evans036 said:

i heard that H666 is very difficult to mount.

Without lube / tire grease, every single tire is difficult to mount. With lube every single tire, including the stiffest motorcycle tires, are pretty easy to mount.

[ChiWestSider]

15 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Try braking in the s*itting position with less 'leaning' and more knees bent with rear end hanging off the back. I don't have a V12, but not 'leaning' backwards totally solved my braking wobbles. I consciously "press down hard with your left heel" as well. In my case, wobbles were related to the way my feet were applying pressure to the pedals—probably too much pressure ahead of the wheel's rotational axis.

Thank you for this.  It could be injury saving advice.  It's kind of a natural reaction when i ride that the gayer I'm going the more i sit when braking. I will consciously make an effort to sit more when baking now. 

[Grimm10]

4 hours ago, ChiWestSider said:

Thank you for this.  It could be injury saving advice.  It's kind of a natural reaction when i ride that the gayer I'm going the more i sit when braking. I will consciously make an effort to sit more when baking now. 

The gayer you're going?  

[AtlasP]

19 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Anytime either the battery weight and/or rider weight is held higher away from the center of the wheel axle/center point like this (many of the thin older Inmotions do this along with the 18650 Nikolas), you're prone to wobbling because your body center of mass being held farther away from the stable wheel axle center is influenced more by the gyroscopic forces created by the spinning wheel.

Having taught literally dozens of riders on a range of different wheels, I've never seen anyone experience significant braking wobbles on the V5, V8, or V10 (or 16S, or any of these lighter wheels) like on the heavier ones. Conversely many people experience braking wobbles when they first try certain heavier wheels like particularly the Nikola and a bunch of the newer, heavier wheels with higher pedals. Also I suspect tire characteristics may play a part.

Ultimately I think you're on the right track regarding weight distribution and pedal height, but I think overall weight is a fundamental component (or perhaps more accurately weight ratio between the wheel and rider). So lighter wheels irrelevant of higher weight distribution (internal weight distribution and/or pedal height) just don't seem to exhibit this problem to any significant degree, compared to heavier wheels with these same characteristics (again, high internal weight distribution and/or pedal height) which certainly do. Then with this qualifier I think the rest of your post holds true. (Including in particular I agree that this can be completely mitigated with riding experience and technique.)

Edited December 10, 2021 by AtlasP

[Paul A]

Maybe conduct experiments to try and deliberately induce wobbles, to find the causes...

Exaggerate the suspected causes.  Carry a heavy weight as far as possible away from the axle, away from the stable wheel axle etc..

[Lefteris]

After 1,500km on the wheel there won't be any wobbles..

[Steve Evans]

6 hours ago, Lefteris said:

After 1,500km on the wheel there won't be any wobbles..

yes, the more i ride (had the wheel for 2 weeks now) the less wobbles are an issue. i am going to stick with the stock tire for now and reassess after more experience.

[Unventor]

17 hours ago, AtlasP said:

Having taught literally dozens of riders on a range of different wheels, I've never seen anyone experience significant braking wobbles on the V5, V8, or V10 (or 16S, or any of these lighter wheels) like on the heavier ones. Conversely many people experience braking wobbles when they first try certain heavier wheels like particularly the Nikola and a bunch of the newer, heavier wheels with higher pedals. Also I suspect tire characteristics may play a part.

Ultimately I think you're on the right track regarding weight distribution and pedal height, but I think overall weight is a fundamental component (or perhaps more accurately weight ratio between the wheel and rider). So lighter wheels irrelevant of higher weight distribution (internal weight distribution and/or pedal height) just don't seem to exhibit this problem to any significant degree, compared to heavier wheels with these same characteristics (again, high internal weight distribution and/or pedal height) which certainly do. Then with this qualifier I think the rest of your post holds true. (Including in particular I agree that this can be completely mitigated with riding experience and technique.)

I stumbled on this video the other day. It is about how a bicycle and balance work. But some point has to do with construction and I think despite very different for an EUC combined with picture from V10 launch it might help some to understand why high pedals are not always your friend and why these was lower in the start. 

As people moved from smooth pavement to trails and off road rides the need for better clearance became obvious. And as wheels needed more range and power they got heavier. So the rider vs wheel weight proportion and the force we use to control the EUC shifted too. So combined it isn't as easy to ride with high pedals and wheel that fairly heavy compare to the rider. The amount of force we use are different too from rider to rider. After some time you get adjusted to the relation so you can avoid wobbles. But from my experience it needs to be maintained to keep the body trained to keep up with tiding problem free. I am very sensative to this just a week or two of pause impact my riding. So I try to ride every 2nd or 3rd day at least if weather give me the slightest option to do so. 

Now the picture above has to do with where balance point are and the relation to rider and pivot points. 

If we take the tire debate into this the more of a point vs an area you stand on the more difficult balancing becomes. This is part reason why I dislike riding at high tire pressure. The other part is my bad knees and back. So impacts are felt much more at high tire pressure. But too low causes problems to like rim damage and snake bite punctures or tire being forced of the rim. 

[Paul A]

Good video...Veritasium is a great channel.

The second reason at time mark 8.14...could this be the explanation of EUC wobbles? 

 

EUC riding at high speed.

Body mass moves to left/right and the rim/tyre responds as in reason two of video.

Tyre overshoots the required adjustment, turns back.  Overshoots again, turns back, etc.  Keeps wobbling until correct alignment achieved...or rider thrown off.

 

 

[Steve Evans]

4 hours ago, Paul A said:

Good video...Veritasium is a great channel.

The second reason at time mark 8.14...could this be the explanation of EUC wobbles? 

 

EUC riding at high speed.

Body mass moves to left/right and the rim/tyre responds as in reason two of video.

Tyre overshoots the required adjustment, turns back.  Overshoots again, turns back, etc.  Keeps wobbling until correct alignment achieved...or rider thrown off.

 

 

 

 

the worst thing to do in this situation is to apply the brakes. so hard to remember that when you're in the grip of a speed wobble. i got sweaty palms just watching the vid

steve

[Paul A]

Yes, sweaty palms watching vid.

 

With the motorbike wobble video, think someone suggested it might have been caused by the front tyre lifting off the road under high acceleration.

 

The front tyre upon landing is slightly off in alignment to travel, it then turns as according to reason two of the bicycle video.

 

Perhaps the adjusting front tyre at high speed overshoots the correction, turns in opposite direction, overshoots, repeats etc. Wobbles until alignment is finally achieved.  Maybe.

[Freeforester]

He just found out the colour, odour and location of ‘adrenaline’….

[Chester Copperpot]

On 11/23/2021 at 11:28 AM, Kerberos said:

I haven't gone through all the replies, so maybe this has already been touched on. I was walking my V12 and I stepped off a curb with it, when the wheel landed on the ground beside me, it did a little bounce and turned off. Now I can hear something loose inside the wheel. I've already sent it to the shop I got it from to have it looked at, but what I troubleshooted before doing so is the following: I could only turn the wheel on if it was parked and charging on it's kickstand, but I could connect my phone and everything. I even did the diagnosis, but it said that everything was fine with the wheel, I uploaded the log but it didn't download anything so I assume it sends it straight to inmotion. I let the battery charge to 100% then left it another couple of hours to try and balance the batteries, but that made no difference. Battery was also charging fine and to the proper voltage. I later found out that putting it in transport mode allowed me to turn the wheel on while upright. The second I turned off transport mode, it immediately shut down again. It seems to have something to do with the motor engaging that just shuts off the machine. I let the V12 sit for 24hrs too before trying to turn it back on again and same thing. I'm just glad I was only walking the wheel and not riding it, or for all I know I could ended up very seriously injured. :/ 

This exact thing happened to me, walking it over a 2 inch drop onto grass. Ewheels is sending me a new control board in a few weeks.
 

Jason assured me that it’s not a design problem but rather a component failure and that replacement boards have been thoroughly stress tested. Let’s hope this just boils down to a batch of subpar MOSFETs. I can’t imaging how bad it would be for this to happen at speed. 
 

It’s interesting that both of these cases were while walking. Maybe it’s related to higher voltage under no load and freshly charged. 

[Richardo]

@Chester CopperpotWhen did you get the replacement board? Mine died a few weeks ago and i’m still in limbo waiting for a replacement board, jason didnt send over an estimate. 

[Chester Copperpot]

I have not received it yet. They said it will be a few weeks. 

[mhpr262]

21 hours ago, Chester Copperpot said:

This exact thing happened to me, walking it over a 2 inch drop onto grass. Ewheels is sending me a new control board in a few weeks.
 

Jason assured me that it’s not a design problem but rather a component failure and that replacement boards have been thoroughly stress tested. Let’s hope this just boils down to a batch of subpar MOSFETs. I can’t imaging how bad it would be for this to happen at speed. 
 

It’s interesting that both of these cases were while walking. Maybe it’s related to higher voltage under no load and freshly charged. 

I had something similar happen with a first gen V10F (grey rubber surface pedals) - I tried to go under a very low overpass where I had to bend down, but I was too much of a noob and had to jump off the wheel. It tipped over at walking speed and I couldnt switch it on again. Even disassembling it and doing a hard reset by disconnecting the battery had no effect. No visibly burned or molten parts and no bad smells from the control board either. I had ridden a couple dozen kms on it the day before without any issues.