INMOTION V12

[Rawnei]

@Inmotion Global @Cecily Inmotion can we get some offical word regarding this? The reports are stacking up and it's very worrysome for someone like me like who has a V12 on the way (actually my girlfriend who is a new rider has one on the way and I really don't want her very first wheel to cut out on her).

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Rawnei

[Paul g]

2 hours ago, wheel-life said:

New cutout posted on FB, seems different than the rest. He was riding a steady 25-30mph with a battery close to 90% and got suddenly dumped:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/4669082899856303/

 

This shit gets serious. I remember that I saw in a tear dawn the top side of the board enclosure is connected with the lower one through little spring pressed pins. Is it possible they temporarily disconnect while riding and this is what is causing the failures? What do you think might cause these issues? Have any clues?

[wheel-life]

13 minutes ago, Paul g said:

This shit gets serious. I remember that I saw in a tear dawn the top side of the board enclosure is connected with the lower one through little spring pressed pins. Is it possible they temporarily disconnect while riding and this is what is causing the failures? What do you think might cause these issues? Have any clues?

no idea unfortunately but i'm on the sidelines for a bit anyway with winter here. keeping a close eye on any reports that come out in the meantime so i can decide if i want to ride my V12 again when it's nice out. at an absolute minimum i'm going to trolley it down a curb or stair a number of times then do the same while riding it to see if i can replicate the low speed issue.

[Paul g]

E-rides said in one of their recent videos that Abrams also had cutoffs at low speeds, which they reported, and the Veteran engineers said it was the Hall effect sensors. Is it possible that we have the same issues with V12 ?? 

[supercurio]

V12 cutouts keep happening at significant rate, including today with @Gixxer's crash landing him in the ER.

I believe is time time to flag the V12 as dangerous wheel and stop riding them until the root cause is/are identified, and a fix is deployed.
The abnormal risk might be limited to batch 2 or firmware 1.5.x, but it is not confirmed yet.

@Clark Wong from Inmotion gave an update yesterday, linked below.
The manufacturer didn't receive the failed boards yet apparently, so they couldn't get started.

Unless you have no alternative wheel or means of transportation, it's probably not worth riding your V12 right now, given the high failure ratio (10% mentioned).

Think about it, how many V12 have been delivered worldwide so far.
And yet new cutouts are reported frequently. It is an abnormally high failure rate, affecting your health and safety.
Many Inmotion buyers choose this brand for its better safety. Until this/these outstanding issues are solved however, the benefits of this reputation do not apply.

 

Be safe everyone!

Sources:

 

[Richardo]

@Clark Wong I recognize you've a difficult situation.

 

• If Inmotion hasn't found a culprit, you can't recognize a problem without being insubordinate.

However,

• If there is an actual problem, and you deny it, then InMotion's reputation becomes filthy. 

 

I can see two things that should be within your power (after talking to inmotion) that would make me happy:

1. Make a move to expedite shipping of faulty boards from customers/retailers back to HQ for analysis. Have inmotion pay for overnight shipping or something, as a gesture of how important it is to the company. If you're already doing this, let us know- it'd be reassuring! And you could literally save a life by figuring things out faster.
2. Let the community know what the serious defect-rate is that you're hearing from your retailers. This would be more transparent than other companies, and a great way to lead by example.

It's ghastly to be discussing this and then see Gixxer sent to the hospital the next morning. You're in a stressful position right now, you probably have to argue with your boss, but that will be worth it. Not only could you help your company navigate a potential reputational risk, but you could literally save someone's health or even life.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Richardo

[supercurio]

Great suggestions @Richardo

I may add:
3. @Clark Wong please make sure you collect all vehicle data recorded by the V12, just like it was last year with a V11 crash after interactions with the community enabled the rollout of better wheel alarms.
It will allow to work on root cause analysis earlier, way before V12 are shipped around, dismantled and board sent across the world.

 

Then, although it might be unpopular, what do you guys think about a global call to distributors to hold any V12 they receive and not send them to customers until Inmotion fixed the cause of these cutouts?

My friend @Rawnei was suggesting a few hours ago we'd ask that, to hold it until fixed to the distributor we both ordered our V12 from, and is supposed to arrive in January.
But given the nature of the risk which we know includes high speed cutouts as well, I believe it should be escalated to the standard for everyone
- unless a customer really insist getting his/her wheel NOW, and fully aware of the risks.

Edited December 30, 2021 by supercurio

[Gixxer]

2 hours ago, Richardo said:

@Clark Wong I recognize you've a difficult situation.

 

• If Inmotion hasn't found a culprit, you can't recognize a problem without being insubordinate.

However,

• If there is an actual problem, and you deny it, then InMotion's reputation becomes filthy. 

 

I can see two things that should be within your power (after talking to inmotion) that would make me happy:

1. Make a move to expedite shipping of faulty boards from customers/retailers back to HQ for analysis. Have inmotion pay for overnight shipping or something, as a gesture of how important it is to the company. If you're already doing this, let us know- it'd be reassuring! And you could literally save a life by figuring things out faster.
2. Let the community know what the serious defect-rate is that you're hearing from your retailers. This would be more transparent than other companies, and a great way to lead by example.

It's ghastly to be discussing this and then see Gixxer sent to the hospital the next morning. You're in a stressful position right now, you probably have to argue with your boss, but that will be worth it. Not only could you help your company navigate a potential reputational risk, but you could literally save someone's health or even life.

Yeah seriously regretting reading about those failures and thinking "It probably wont happen to me they have great quality control" *literally the next day*

[Paul A]

Are owners worldwide being actively alerted by Inmotion?

Not everyone follows a forum, or speaks English.

[Cecily Inmotion]

On 12/28/2021 at 2:29 AM, Rawnei said:

@Inmotion Global @Cecily Inmotion can we get some offical word regarding this? The reports are stacking up and it's very worrysome for someone like me like who has a V12 on the way (actually my girlfriend who is a new rider has one on the way and I really don't want her very first wheel to cut out on her).

 

 

We are sorry for the problem happened to V12. We promise we’ll do our utmost to help people get the issue solved. We have been collecting problems which happened on V12 and doing analysis. You can contact the shop you buy the wheel from and send email to service@imscv.com to let us know your problem. Please rest assured, all your V12 problems will be resolved completely. 

[supercurio]

9 minutes ago, Cecily Inmotion said:

We are sorry for the problem happened to V12. We promise we’ll do our utmost to help people get the issue solved. We have been collecting problems which happened on V12 and doing analysis. You can contact the shop you buy the wheel from and send email to service@imscv.com to let us know your problem. Please rest assured, all your V12 problems will be resolved completely. 

Thanks for the update @Cecily Inmotion.

In the meantime and using the knowledge from preliminary data analysis, could you please disclose and broadcast a warning to retailers and customers so no more people get hurt until the problem is solved?

Instead of waiting for people to crash and help them fix their wheel (but not their health)

Edited December 31, 2021 by supercurio

[supercurio]

Additional context regarding these V12 board failures:

A trusted European retailer informed us when enquiring about the V12 that 30% of its summer production V10F burned their mainboard.
This official distributor informed Inmotion of its finding and is awaiting answers as well.

This retailer also learned from unofficial channels that Inmotion was seeking a new supplier for its mainboard during spring.

[Cecily Inmotion]

25 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Thanks for the update @Cecily Inmotion.

In the meantime and using the knowledge from preliminary data analysis, could you please disclose and broadcast a warning to retailers and customers so no more people get hurt until the problem is solved?

Instead of waiting for people to crash and help them fix their wheel (but not their health)

 I think everybody should put on the helmet and wrist guards. And  it's better not to ride too quickly and slow down when you pass the bump on the road.  We don't want anyone to get hurt. Our company are working on the problems as hard as we can. 

[supercurio]

19 minutes ago, Cecily Inmotion said:

 I think everybody should put on the helmet and wrist guards. And  it's better not to ride too quickly and slow down when you pass the bump on the road.  We don't want anyone to get hurt. Our company are working on the problems as hard as we can. 

While this is good general advice for everybody riding an EUC, are you sure that it is still enough in the current situation?

Please read what happened to @Gixxer, and appreciate the extend of his injuries, with only cause his V12 failure.

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by supercurio

[Cecily Inmotion]

11 minutes ago, supercurio said:

While this is good general advice for everybody riding an EUC, are you sure that it is still enough in the current situation?

Please read what happened to @Gixxer, and appreciate the extend of his injuries, with only cause his V12 failure.

I just talked with our boss and engineers, they will not have our three days new year holiday but working on this problem. We will try our best to give a solution next week. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[supercurio]

@Cecily Inmotion suggested course of action:

Via distributors

Inform every distributor without delay so they can alert their V12 customers via email to not ride the wheel until the issue is solved.

Via the Inmotion app

Some customers got their V12 second hand and will not be informed by a distributor. You can use the Inmotion app to send a push notification with the safety warning concerning the V12.

Via 3rd party apps

EUC World and Darknessbot are popular and am sure will be willing to provide an update to their users which will protect them from significant risk.
EUC World developer is @Seba and can be reached easily, Darknessbot developers are responsive as well.

Limit speed and activate tiltback

On all models/batchs/versions concerned, you can leverage the Inmotion and 3rd party apps to automatically enforce a speed alarm and tiltback at 20 km/h to reduce the risk of injury.

The speed limit and tiltback should be applied as soon as an app connects to the wheel, each time.
It will not be 100% of users but still a clear message to them.
That way, your customers will still be able to use it they must but making a failure less dangerous.

 

I believe this is a defining moment in Inmotion's history, with unprecedented failure rate on a wheel much faster and more powerful than ever before. I hope your company will honor its tradition of putting the quality of life and safety of its customers first.
Wishing you will be able to be our advocate internally, for everyone who believe in your brand's value and ethics and rely on and trust your integrity with their life.

[Paul g]

Oh my God, this is horrible. I’m sorry to hear about the accident. Wish you well, Gixxer.

I’ll stop riding my V12.

I see InMotion outsources the boards. It is better to have an in-house production for them. This tightens the control margins. Anyway, we’ve got to the point of no return. InMotion has to replace all motherboards, and recall the faulty ones. 

[supercurio]

22 minutes ago, Cecily Inmotion said:

I just talked with our boss and engineers, they will not have our three days new year holiday but working on this problem. We will try our best to give a solution next week. Thanks for your understanding.

Appreciate the effort.

Maybe it's okay if your engineers have some well deserved rest and come back with less stress and a clear mind.
I think everybody understand that it takes time to come with tested, robust solutions which don't introduce more issues as side effects.

Weeks probably, longer if hardware has to be replaced.

As long as the customers are informed in the meantime, which is the most important in my humble opinion.

Edited December 31, 2021 by supercurio

[Paul g]

I think we should also appreciate the care @Inmotion Global, @Cecily Inmotionhas for its costumers. Because it outsources the boards to an other producer it doesn’t have direct control over its quality. The fact that they enter here to reassure everybody, even if that means to get in the line of fire from unhappy, or even furious costumers, is to be noted. It means they take responsibility in a difficult situation. 

[Shane Dougherty]

Awaiting my batch #2 wheel that I ordered from Chicway on June 3rd. It has currently been stuck in customs for 3 weeks. Now I'm going to be super cautious when it arrives. I'm sure Inmotion will handle this professionally as there is too much at stake since their reputation for being the safest wheel company could be tarnished.

Thank you Inmotion and Cecily for taking this seriously and I'll be patiently awaiting the solution. I'm confident that Chicway will expedite parts needed if necessary. Ken Jason has been great to respond to all my inquiries! Thanks Ken

[Cecily Inmotion]

Hi everybody, we just post an official announcement to all V12 riders. Hope you can understand us and give us some time to deal with this problem. We will give a reply soon next week.

[Grimm10]

Glad to see that Inmotion is publicly addressing the issue.

[spitfire1337]

On 12/22/2021 at 11:20 AM, Petranodon said:

My friends and I experienced the same thing with our newly bought second batch V12. The only difference is that my friend's V12 cut out when he hit a speed bump as he was riding at about 15-20km/h. Whereas my V12 cut out when it was ridden at about 15-20km/h without hitting any speed bump. 

Since I bought directly from the Inmotion, I reported this case to them. So they said that they will replace the driver board of my and my friend's V12. However, it seems that they don't know the exact root cause what makes the problem happen, so that I will still not confident riding my V12 again even though the driver board will be replaced.

I don't know whether it is related to the firmware or not. But the installed firmware of our V12s is v1.5.4.

Really hoping that the Inmotion will take care of this particular problem very seriously, as I see that it happens to many riders lately, and it's a dangerous problem since it's related to sudden "cut out" without any alarm prior to it.

I'm helping out with the google sheets tracker and would like to add some additional info to help gain some more insight. What riding mode where you in commuter/off road and did you have split mode enabled?

[Steve Evans]

On 12/31/2021 at 10:31 AM, Cecily Inmotion said:

Hi everybody, we just post an official announcement to all V12 riders. Hope you can understand us and give us some time to deal with this problem. We will give a reply soon next week.

 

I have stopped riding my V12 until we get at least some kind for diagnosis from Inmotion. Thanks Inmotion for taking this issue seriously.

 

 

[Paul A]

A cutout at 20kph is still quite fast.

Usain Bolt can sprint at around 44kph top speed, but not from a standing start.

Average person might be able to run top speed of around 13kph.