supercurio Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 26 minutes ago, Paul A said: Pseudo solution. Problem not solved at all. pseudo /ˈsjuːdəʊ/ derogatory adjective adjective: pseudo not genuine; spurious or sham. "we are talking about real journalists and not the pseudo kind" Ah yes you're right my bad. Like pseudo science: not science at all. I got confused with how we sometimes use the "pseudo" prefix in french colloquial language, to mean something like "a kind of but crappy" something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai Drange Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Tawpie said: But, it was horribly expensive and one wonders how they could possibly survive. It’s no way to run a successful business, stressing your product like that. Hmm. It would depend on who the intended customer was, though, I guess? If the customer wanted that product for, say, something at the bottom of the sea or in an airplane cockpit, paying 100x more for the thoroughly tested product compared to the more-likely-to-fail-competitors might be acceptable. EUCs and electronic musical instruments are two examples of products I can think of where likelihood of failure is a major factor in what I buy. I really don't want my instrument to fail while on stage. For my EUC, my concerns would be the combination of safety, the fact that getting it repaired will be quite a hassle because of where I live + that I lack the know-how and willingness to do any repairs myself. So in both these cases I'd be willing to pay significantly more for something that is likely to "just work". ...so, if I could choose between V12 and the otherwise identical V12-thoroughly-tested-edition, I guess I'd go for the latter, even with a quite large % added price. Edited January 5, 2022 by Kai Drange 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djal Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) Last communication from IM. https://share.icloud.com/photos/0552ElUlkANIK5_5sc_f8UeIw Edited January 5, 2022 by Djal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Published by myEwheel, but branded Inmotion. Good that they show good and bad ways to run the test. Hopefully someone here will burn their board that way (instead of crashing, confirming the validity of the test. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conecones Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 10 minutes ago, supercurio said: Published by myEwheel, but branded Inmotion. Good that they show good and bad ways to run the test. Hopefully someone here will burn their board that way (instead of crashing, confirming the validity of the test. 2 things I noted: 1. Fancier mode not enabled, hence top speed capped at 60km/h. Wouldn’t it make more sense to test using fancier mode since it’s supposed to draw more power? 2. Those carpet burns. Lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 14 hours ago, Unventor said: One of the old brands like Ninebot didn't care from their resellers and customers from owners I heard about here. That brand is not active anymore. So I view it as critical for a brand to listen and engaging with their customers/end-users. I think you will find that Ninebot EUC ceased for reasons completely unrelated to listening/engaging with customers. They simply saw more profit in other ventures. But yes, you are right in that their support dwindled to nothing whilst they were ramping down Ninebot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Djal Posted January 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) Are we sure that if the test is ok, that mosfet will not fail later....? not so sure. still 100v mosfet on a 100v wheel... Edited January 5, 2022 by Djal 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Could they turn regen off with a firmware update? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post supercurio Posted January 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Paradox said: Could they turn regen off with a firmware update? Regen is an integral part of balancing and braking, so no. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Timwheel Posted January 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2022 1 hour ago, conecones said: 2 things I noted: 1. Fancier mode not enabled, hence top speed capped at 60km/h. Wouldn’t it make more sense to test using fancier mode since it’s supposed to draw more power? 2. Those carpet burns. Lol. A wheel lifted will go to max speed anyway. Fancier mode or not... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 From the IM latest communication: "If your vehicle is found to be affected, contact your dealer to arrange for a repair at no cost". Wouldn't owners just opt for the free repair to ensure their safety? What would the repair be? Replacement with higher rated mosfets? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Paul A said: From the IM latest communication: "If your vehicle is found to be affected, contact your dealer to arrange for a repair at no cost". Wouldn't owners just opt for the free repair to ensure their safety? What would the repair be? Replacement with higher rated mosfets? Does free repair cover shipping costs to and from dealer? 🤔 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Might need to ask Cecily for details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosamplesplease Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 New video with MOSFET replacement procedure. Yup it's ridiculously simple. Anybody in NYC want to take one to Louis Rossman and get him to blast Inmotion? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RagingGrandpa Posted January 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, evans036 said: are there any other tests we can come up with that might trigger mosfet burnout? Sure! If it's really FET breakdown causing the issue, the worst-case is high-voltage, low-temperature. High-voltage comes from the pack voltage + braking regen. Get it really cold (store outdoors in winter) and top-up the battery (in a sheltered place outdoors?) by leaving it on a charger 1hr after the charger light turns green. Then turn on the EUC and immediately begin a lift-test (like shown below), with rapid changes from forward to reverse spin direction, repeated many times, as vigorously as possible. Also try aggressive pendulum maneuvers (get some pedal dip, changing quickly from forward to reverse and back). A normal EUC will survive this test without any damage whatsoever. (Even very old EUC's can do this stuff.) I would be totally comfortable doing this for any of my personal wheels. There is also the possibility that damage will be cumulative and slow, which is the most troublesome situation for users. Perhaps your V12 would survive 9 minutes of such testing, but fail after 10 minutes. Like @Djal suggested, it's impossible to actually know, without something specific to measure "damage"... 4 hours ago, supercurio said: Hmm, no mention of performing this immediately after charging fully? Strange omission... perhaps they still know something we don't. Edited January 5, 2022 by RagingGrandpa 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RagingGrandpa Posted January 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2022 1 hour ago, nosamplesplease said: video with MOSFET replacement procedure. it's ridiculously simple. Careful there... There was no testing of other components of the controller. If a FET fails, other components can be damaged with it. So I would aggressively test any repaired controller in a safe environment, before trusting the repair. (e.g. ride aggressively in a lumpy grass field without obstacles) Soldering was dirty and hasty in that vid. If there was lacquer painted on the PCB after assembly, removing it before desoldering / resoldering is important, and not easy. Desoldering looked very hot in that demonstration, posing risk to nearby components. If I had a V12 that cut out, I would expect a new controller, not a reworked one. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverine Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Here is the new Inmotion announcement regarding to the V12 cut out cases. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosamplesplease Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 42 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said: Careful there... There was no testing of other components of the controller. If a FET fails, other components can be damaged with it. So I would aggressively test any repaired controller in a safe environment, before trusting the repair. (e.g. ride aggressively in a lumpy grass field without obstacles) Soldering was dirty and hasty in that vid. If there was lacquer painted on the PCB after assembly, removing it before desoldering / resoldering is important, and not easy. Desoldering looked very hot in that demonstration, posing risk to nearby components. If I had a V12 that cut out, I would expect a new controller, not a reworked one. Absolutely, which is why I recommended a top tier tech. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfish Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 I am not going to feel convinced if I pass this test, and I would like to feel convinced. What options will I have outside of some new development? Do they sell replacement boards (shortages aside)? Is it possible to find someone to hire to replace the mofsets? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tawpie Posted January 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2022 1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said: Careful there... In case anyone wants to do this themselves, be sure to try to limit the amount of time you have your soldering iron in contact with the board. Use an iron that controls temperature at the tip and is ESD certified. The copper traces should be very heavy 2oz copper and will want to sink the heat, so your iron should be ~800F and your contact time should be limited to 1-2 seconds. If you heat the joint too long at that temperature, you risk separating the plated through tubelet from the fiberglas and it'll easily rip under stress. I would have clipped the leads of the FET prior to removal so the part itself isn't sinking heat during the desoldering operation. In the video they managed to reflow all three joints so the part just fell out, it's better practice to clip the leads and desolder 1 joint at a time to reduce the chances of damaging the tubelet. Adding a lot of flux is a good idea as it helps clear the solder plug. Once you have the plated through hole clear of solder, you should do an inspection of the top and bottom of the tubelet and annular ring at 10x magnification to see if either is detaching from the fiberglas. Do this before you reinstall the part! If any detachment of the annular ring is observed, that needs to be repaired. After the new part is installed, repeat the visual inspection for joint quality and board integrity (look for delimination—white spotting). If all is still good, clean both sides with stuff appropriate for your flux, and then reapply whatever coating is used to prevent contamination of the joint. A final inspection for overall quality is warranted! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post terlikaa Posted January 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) From FB: Did the V12 spin test this morning and it failed. Wheel DOES NOT turn on anymore. It turned on one more time only after I plugged it back in and immediately shut off for good. This could save you guys from a bad wreck like myself and a few others had. Do the test! My wheel is being sent back to eWheels for repairs. https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/posts/4704221789675747/ Edited January 5, 2022 by RagingGrandpa (fixed URL) 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Thanks a lot @terlikaa for reporting the test worked at least once to identify a board that was bound to fail. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Aliexpress. V12 control board. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003557925169.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.404e1b4c2uKyVM&algo_pvid=037d11cd-03a8-4b0e-b05c-9771b9ffd335&algo_exp_id=037d11cd-03a8-4b0e-b05c-9771b9ffd335-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000026276802617"}&pdp_pi=-1%3B249.68%3B-1%3B-1%40salePrice%3BUSD%3Bsearch-mainSearch Or just have the free repair..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terlikaa Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 1 minute ago, supercurio said: Thanks a lot @terlikaa for reporting the test worked at least once to identify a board that was bound to fail. Yep, apparently it works. Will test mine tomorrow. Hope it will survive . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RagingGrandpa Posted January 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Silverfish said: I am not going to feel convinced if I pass this test Exactly. The test is conclusive only in failure; but confidence is low if it passes. 3 hours ago, Silverfish said: Is it possible to find someone to hire to replace the mofsets? Yes, possible, and there seem to be many pin-compatible alternatives available, with ratings >120V. But as discussed above, it would be far better to put new FETs on a new board, than to rip out the old ones during rework And no such thing as a free lunch: higher voltage ratings mean higher heat dissipation, so the best 120V FETs are expected to run a little warmer than the best 100V FETs, all other things being equal. V12 has a massive heatsink, so I think an extra 1.5mOhm Rds-ON is fine... Edited January 5, 2022 by RagingGrandpa 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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