Incredibly bad look for this community.

[Brendan "nog3" Halliday]

2 minutes ago, Unventor said:

The pedestrian s are in a designated area for them to cross. It does not mean they can do whatever they please, but they do hold the advantage to right of way. At least to traffic laws I am familiar with. 

The pedestrians are on a zebra crossing whilst their crossing lights are green, and the EUC rider is riding towards a red light. In most civilised areas of the world this would mean the pedestrians have ultimate right of way here. It is not up to them to anticipate how fast a vehicle that should not be crossing the zebra crossing contra-flow is travelling at.

[mike_bike_kite]

Even if the light was on red for the pedestrians and green for the rider then the rider still can't just run them down. It just shows incredibly bad judgement on the part of the rider. It also shows incredibly bad judgement to be filming it for "entertainment". 

[Paulo Mesquita]

14 hours ago, Sumako said:

 

WOW! DMV registration, liability insurance, more taxes, paid annually, on the electric equivalent of a pair of roller blades? DUMBEST most STUPID and DISCONNECTED idea I have ever heard.  

 
It looks like all you riders who want laws to force the rest of riders to pay an annual fee/tax to the man. I bet y’all were never pissed off at @evX_Mickover his video. In fact the lot of you are glad he made that video so y’all can make your pitch to community, to sell the rest of us on the idea of spending more money on what we own. 

DON’T go to the DMV

DON’T get your wheel plated

DON’T try to be “street legal” becasue your ride is already STREET LEGAL!!!!!

 

Nearly every state has legislation guiding electric micro mobility. It’s called “25mph on the road and no limit speed in bike-lanes”! 

You’re riding an Electric Unicycle, people. It’s NOT a motorcycle. It was never meant to be a motorcycle or motor bike. It’s not mini ebike, it’s a not half, standup, pogo, mini, push it, skate it, “E” Motorcycle.

 

You want a motorcycle where you get go walk into the DMV and get your plates, buy registration tags, pay taxes, and Liability insurance; ANNUALLY? Then get off of the EUC and get a REAL motorcycle. And if you got a motorcycle be grateful that your EUC gives you a fun ride that you don’t have to pay annually on. 

@Sumako try and remember there is an entire planet besides the USA. I know that for some it's a difficult concept. FYI there are around 200 countries besides your and may members of this forum belong to those nationalities. So...there are about 200 different laws and legislations for PEV's all over those countries. Mine, being one of the many.

I hope that with this small information will broaden your perception of this great community and of out planet.

[GoGeorgeGo]

5 hours ago, Sumako said:

OMG! The whole point is, we have been dealing with this issue of people getting hit by cyclists and skaters for ever and a day and there has NEVER been insurance for any of these cases. Y’all in the UK have free healthcare/socialized medicine. I can’t imagine why any of you need insurance for your PEVs in the first place if medicine and healthcare is covered in the first place. But I digress. 

What has the UK done when a cyclist or skater accidentally hit a pedestrian? 

Cyclists and skaters are not traveling at speed of 40+ mph. In America insurance is not required in every state. But registration is. Officers and the state need a way to identify you in case of traffic infractions or accidents. Many states do actually require a bicycle registration to be legal to ride in the road (generally it costs between 1$ and 10$)

I understand you dont think unicycles should travel over 25 mph but thats clearly not the direction they are going here anyways. The monster pro tops out at 59 and 40 mph is a common speed for its riders. 

Other countries may not share the trend but here in America interest in slow wheels is low. We do not have the infrastructure to support anything under 30 mph. Riding on bike paths and sidewalks can be pleasant, but its a HORRIBLE mode of transportation. Way to many people and animals and obstacles to be used regularly for travel. 

Road riding however has been catching the eye of the public. The majority of new riders here are looking at 30+ mph wheels in my anecdotal experience. Near everyone i meet on smaller slower wheels upgrades within months to a 35+ model. 

Our legal status is very clear, one wheeled devices are unclassified in 90% of regions. Some specific counties and towns have specific ordinances that catch EUC, but to my knowledge no state wide law covers us. They all specify devices with 2 or more wheels. In my real world experince, i have interacted with officers at least 40+ times while riding. 90% of those interactions are just "wow that things badass, you guys be safe!". Twice members of our group rides have been pulled over, one was a bike he caught going to fast (let off with a warning) and once was for my buddies trike which is unregistered (let off with a warning).

Only one time has an officer ever had a "negative" interation with us. And that was because we where at a street crossing in the rail trail bike path and he told us we are not allowed to ride in that path and asked us to please ride in the road. 

We just did a 100 mile ride from providence to Newport the other day, more than half of which was road riding. No issues at all riding 30+ in the streets here. Insurance requirements vary from state to state but i dont think its asking much at all for us to register our devices 

Edited July 5, 2021 by GoGeorgeGo

[CarlW]

5 hours ago, Sumako said:

Yea, you missed the context of my post. In order to understand what is going on in this discussion, it really helps if you have actually ride an EUC. It’s like I don’t fly planes but I’m posting in a discussion about complicated issues regarding flying a solo sports plane. Ya can’t add much complicated discussions unless you have experience. See what I am saying? 

Issues surrounding the original discussion are not complicated.  I am a member of the human race as well as this forum and the behavior shown in the video is unacceptable to me and many others.  I called it out for what is was and posted  "a display of disrespect for others, rules of the road, and lack of common courtesy"  25 other members agreed with my participation in the discussion.  I re-entered this conversation when I saw more disrespect from you towards another member.  Regardless of my EUC experience I have more than enough life experience to identify and call out disrespectful behavior.        

[Heyzeus]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

...No issues at all riding 30+ in the streets here. Insurance requirements vary from state to state but i dont think its asking much at all for us to register our devices

On one hand, I've enjoyed our legal gray area here in socal.  If it's niche or obscure enough then people(cops/enforcement) generally leaves you alone.  Cop sees you riding on the sidewalk(or the street/bike lane), maybe they think it's cool, or maybe they are unsure and it's kind of like a scooter, but it has only one wheel, but you are going almost 30mph on the street/sidewalk, are there any laws covering it?, they don't know and don't want to deal with the paperwork/hassle and so just move on and leave you alone.  The more you start to legislate the more you have a risk of them legislating absolutely ridiculous rules that defeat the purpose of the device (Max power of 1000w or max speed of 20mph etc.) and the more attention you get, and as a result the more enforcement you get and the more the fun and hobby is killed. Out of sight, out of mind if you will.

On the other hand...it's only a matter of time till a rider falls off their wheel and a runaway wheel hops a curb and veers into traffic and causes a multi car crash. 

I was riding on the bike path around the university campus park one day(going the speed bikes do, not racing or going all chooch) and someone on their phone not paying attention crossed the path up ahead of me without looking.  I slowed down as much as possible but it wasn't enough and to avoid hurting them as we collided I veered my wheel off to the side and kind of hopped off while at the same time pushing off of them (like a push up, using my arms to slow the impact like shock absorbers or springs, human crumple zones?).  Anyways, since I veered the wheel so I wouldn't crash it into their legs, when I hopped off, the wheel kept going onto the grass.  People hang out/sit on this grassy area of the university park and read, study, relax etc.  

Luckily my wheel veered into one of the slightly sunken dips around a tree, lost it's balance and toppled over with no damage to any people or it.  The person was apologetic, said sorry, then kept walking to class with no concern about the accident that could have been or without inquiring whether my wheel was okay.  I was somewhat miffed because, well, I'm obeying the rules, you should also play by the rules as a pedestrian crossing a vehicle path and stop, look(up from your phone), cross, but people be people.  However, it occurred to me that, shit, if it hadn't toppled over where it did, it could have kept going and possibly hit any number of uninvolved people ahead of it.  It was going slow enough at that point that it prob wouldn't cause any injury but it left me imagining a wheel going runaway and hitting someone in the head who's just laying down in the park enjoying some sun.   

It's not like cyclists have never caused car crashes or hit a pedestrian but when cyclists do crash, they often crash with their vehicle.  They have control over their ride and it tends to go down with them (sometimes in glorious fashion ie tour de france) but you don't really see a cyclist crash off their bike and it go runaway and hit someone or a car 100+ feet away.  They get wrapped up in their device. Even if only going 10mph, a 50lb vehicle, or some of these newer 70+ pound vehicles, could cause a traumatic brain injury if it hit someone in the head(or hit a child) or a broken bone if hit right elsewhere.  There is a lot of force there. Most bikes while bulky in size are 20-30lbs, lose speed fast and if you are hit by anything first it's usually the rubber wheel not some heavy, hard, plastic battery encasement or metal pedal.

And while the pedestrian is technically at fault here given they crossed the bike path without looking, had they been injured rather than just momentarily shocked and given a story to tell when they get to class, well, I imagine the university would find me at fault.  "You shouldn't be riding so fast"(I wasn't), "You should be watching for idiots/distracted pedestrians"(I was) etc.  But seeing that wheel run off, and having the possibilities flash in my mind as I'm chasing after it for a few seconds was an eye opener.  In the future, I tended to ride around campus a little bit slower than the bikes go, still on alert for pedestrians, but slower than bikes because, well being honest, bikes generally have better brakes and can stop faster to avoid hitting idiot pedestrians and so it's on me to acknowledge that fact and that people will be distracted and dumb and account for that.

And cars, well cars are an ever-day necessity and an accepted risk/part of life, they are common and get the benefit of the doubt as a societally normalized form of transport, they have coverage if at fault for an accident and insured, and if driving safely but the worst case scenario happens and a kid darts into a 4 lane street with a speed limit of 50 and a driver hits and kills the kid because there wasn't enough time to brake, well, it's sad but they aren't arrested or charged or found at fault(generally).

Us though, we aren't common, we are out of the norm, not a generally accepted everyday form of transport people should be watching for.  People glance up see someone standing, no handlebars(one reason a helmet is important is because it helps us stand out from pedestrians who might not look at the ground and see the wheel), and their brain doesn't think "oncoming vehicle", instead thinking "just another pedestrian walking, I have time to cross".  We don't get the benefit of the doubt, we probably are "always at fault" in the eyes of others and prob the courts no matter how unfair the circumstances or how safe we were being because we are riding some weird stupid crazy circus contraption.

If registration was a nominal one time thing or maybe every few years but basically cheap(like 10 bucks or some low processing fee) and it made it so I could get liability coverage I wouldn't be opposed to it.  A concern I would have with registration is a state like california being all, "we need tax dollars, more people are riding scooters and evehicles and don't pay gas taxes, lets charge them ridiculous registration fees to make up the shortfall".

Anyways, what's the point of that whole story, I don't know, maybe my vyvanse is just kicking in and I'm ranting(definitely).  I guess the point is that I see merit to both sides of the coin, those wanting to be left alone and those not against registration of the vehicle/device. And while I enjoy being "out of sight, out of mind", I also wouldn't be opposed to a company like AAA or someone offering a "contract rider/addendum" to your 100/300 car insurance policy that offers similar coverage for your "one or two wheeled, single person, non motorcycle class, electric transportation vehicle" if it was reasonably priced, that would keep me from going bankrupt and pay the medical bills of me/someone if the worst case scenario happened.

[Paulo Mesquita]

10 hours ago, Sumako said:

Asking for laws that force other EUC riders to go to the  DMV and pay for registration on their EUC, plus buy mandatory liability insurance, and pay more taxes on their EUC, every year is DUMB, STUPID. To suggest such legislation is DISCONNECTED, as in TONE DEAF to the complete dynamics of the entire community’s diverse economic backgrounds as well as being lost on the fact that EUC’s are in no way on the same level as a car or MotorCycle. If you think your EUC is a motorcycle of some sort, you’re living in fantasy land.  

Once again... please try and think worldwide.... 

[Paulo Mesquita]

9 hours ago, Sumako said:

OMG! The whole point is, we have been dealing with this issue of people getting hit by cyclists and skaters for ever and a day and there has NEVER been insurance for any of these cases. Y’all in the UK have free healthcare/socialized medicine. I can’t imagine why any of you need insurance for your PEVs in the first place if medicine and healthcare is covered in the first place. But I digress. 

What has the UK done when a cyclist or skater accidentally hit a pedestrian? 

@Sumako this post brings me hope. You've finally acknowledged there are members here that Iive in the UK. Now please try and discover the other members that live in the other almost 200 countries.

You see, it's sad that your pass judgment on how dumb and stupid we all are around the world, without having the slightest notion or idea on how our laws, police and civil responsabilites work. 

Let me teach you one little thing about my country, Portugal. A lapriscopic surgery here in Portugal Costa as much at a private hospital as doing five stitches in the US ( I know,, because my daughter did that surgery on her knee ligaments whinge my nephew in the US paid the same for five stitches. 

And a luxury apartment here pays a yearly tax of about 700€... A year! Get the picture? These area just two of many examples. 

Now back to EUCs... our laws have recently been updated and when the police find out about them... They'll apprehend our 2000€ EUCs at once... because we don't have a licence or insurance. However if we had, and as you might have guessed, they would be very cheap... we'd avoid a sea of problems. 

So how dumb or stupid are we here in Portugal for wanting to legalize our EUCs through licences and insurances? 

Please learn a bit more about other cultures, laws and nations. It would help you. 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Paulo Mesquita

[Paulo Mesquita]

5 hours ago, Unventor said:

Let's roll it back a 10sec or so. I don't think they anticipated an EUC to be that fast up on then. After all 2 set of people made decisions to cross and that could be done safely.

This is a very good example to why cities do not have highway speed limits in pedestrian areas.

One frame show one situation but it might not reflect eye contact that could have allowed all to pass each other in a different situation.

It become reckless riding the moment you are riding in a way that none around you expect you too. That mean both in terms in speeds, lane shifting or in areas you are not supposed to be. 

The pedestrian s are in a designated area for them to cross. It does not mean they can do whatever they please, but they do hold the advantage to right of way. At least to traffic laws I am familiar with. 

Once someone decide they are above the law it becomes a very dangerous situation very fast. Riding or driving fast do not make it better in any way. 

Funny thing... The cultural differences. In Portugal pedestrians ALWAYS have right of way on marked crosswalks, whatever their behavior. They can even dance the rumba or a waltz and we riders have to give them right of way... always and in any circumstances. 

[GoGeorgeGo]

4 minutes ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

Funny thing... The cultural differences. In Portugal pedestrians ALWAYS have right of way on marked crosswalks, whatever their behavior. They can even dance the rumba or a waltz and we riders have to give them right of way... always and in any circumstances. 

In any unlit crosswalk, pedestrians always have the right of way. If you see a pedestrian waiting at a crosswalk, you are supposed to stop and allow them to cross. This is standard throughout the USA

Lit crosswalks are different however, if you cross without the light that is jaywalking and you can be ticketed the same as crossing at a non crosswalk. But the traffic signals all communicate to the walking signals and if the signal says its safe to walk that means there are red lights and no vehicle should be moving. As a pedestrian you should never assume its safe to cross without looking both ways, but crossing a lit crosswalk when given the walk signal is as safe as it gets and most people would never assume a car would blow through the intersection during that moment. 

[Sumako]

39 minutes ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

@Sumako this post brings me hope. You've finally acknowledged there are members here that Iive in the UK. Now please try and discover the other members that live in the other almost 200 countries.

You see, it's sad that your pass judgment on how dumb and stupid we all are around the world, without having the slightest notion or idea on how our laws, police and civil responsabilites work. 

Let me teach you one little thing about my country, Portugal. A lapriscopic surgery here in Portugal Costa as much at a private hospital as doing five stitches in the US ( I know,, because my daughter did that surgery on her knee ligaments whinge my nephew in the US paid the same for five stitches. 

And a luxury apartment here pays a yearly tax of about 700€... A year! Get the picture? These area just two of many examples. 

Now back to EUCs... our laws have recently been updated and when the police find out about them... They'll apprehend our 2000€ EUCs at once... because we don't have a licence or insurance. However if we had, and as you might have guessed, they would be very cheap... we'd avoid a sea of problems. 

So how dumb or stupid are we here in Portugal for wanting to legalize our EUCs through licences and insurances? 

Please learn a bit more about other cultures, laws and nations. It would help you. 

 

@Paulo Mesquita- Your brings up a very important point, and one that should have been spread across the board when the discussion started with being upset over the Ally Cat race. USA issues on the subject and the rest of the world are so different, this thread should have been split up into 2 or more threads. There should have been a separate thread for us US citizens to discuss the matter with our concerns and a separate version for the international community. It’s also important to acknowledge that what happens in the USA is not going to have any impact on those of you Globally. Culture/laws are different in the states than what other countries deal with. 

So, Paulo I do apologize if you felt that my comments about asking for regulations/licenses and alike were aimed at you and your international friends. My posts were really aimed more towards any UC rider in the states; because EUCs here in America are already street legal. We have laws guiding EVs.  Obviously other countries do not.

[Sumako]

3 hours ago, CarlW said:

Issues surrounding the original discussion are not complicated.  I am a member of the human race as well as this forum and the behavior shown in the video is unacceptable to me and many others.  I called it out for what is was and posted  "a display of disrespect for others, rules of the road, and lack of common courtesy"  25 other members agreed with my participation in the discussion.  I re-entered this conversation when I saw more disrespect from you towards another member.  Regardless of my EUC experience I have more than enough life experience to identify and call out disrespectful behavior.        

@CarlW You took a shot at comment quoting my initial post about how “asking for compelled DMV registration of our EUCs is stupid”. As I have said, before,  You completely missed the point of that larger comment because you didn’t catch why I said that compelled registration was not needed, and the pursuit of it to be a legislated obligation for all EUC riders is “Stupid” “Dumb” and “Disconnected”. We already have laws that govern EUCs. It’s very simple: You don’t ride faster than 25mph on roads and streets. You may ride past 25mph in any bike-lane unless specified.  In fact the 25mph speed limit on roads/streets/highways is quite genius; as if the original law was written by someone who knows EUCs extremely well. I’ll post about that later.

I am excited for you about your upcoming acquisition of your new 16X. Word’s can not describe how you will change internally once you learn to ride an EUC. The impact on you will be intense once you learn that you can move down the street at 25mph, with nothing but your ride armor to protect you. The freedom you will feel will be the most invigorating experience of your life. I do hope you hang on to that feeling. It’s meditative. 

When you learn to ride your new EUC, your thoughts and ideas about being on an EUC will change from what you are assuming now. I mean you may still hang on to the more conservative ideals about riding that you have learned from others here, but you will have the experience. This new experience could completely inspire you to see a different point of view. You may not change your thoughts on the Alley Cat race but you might feel different about government getting in the middle of another rider’s experience. You could end up seeing my point of view.

My overall point is this; you won’t know exactly how you will feel about these topics and issues until you are riding your new wheel on the daily. After learning your first wheel in on it’s way, to me, your comments are going to be assumptions and expectations; not real experiences. Best of luck with your new journey.

[Mark13i]

49 minutes ago, Sumako said:

@Paulo Mesquita- Your brings up a very important point, and one that should have been spread across the board when the discussion started with being upset over the Ally Cat race. USA issues on the subject and the rest of the world are so different, this thread should have been split up into 2 or more threads. There should have been a separate thread for us US citizens to discuss the matter with our concerns and a separate version for the international community. It’s also important to acknowledge that what happens in the USA is not going to have any impact on those of you Globally. Culture/laws are different in the states than what other countries deal with.

You underestimate the power of American culture. 

Today almost all over the world, an engagement ring must have a diamond.  The worldwide fashion for giving a beloved woman diamonds began with a few Hollywood movies and words from Marilyn Monroe;  Diamonds are girl's best friends.  Before these films, the diamond was one of many gemstones and no one linked it to a woman.  

Did you know?

[mike_bike_kite]

9 minutes ago, Mark13i said:

American culture

Now there's a good oxymoron

[Mark13i]

12 minutes ago, Sumako said:

When you learn to ride your new EUC, your thoughts and ideas about being on an EUC will change from what you are assuming now. I mean you may still hang on to the more conservative ideals about riding that you have learned from others here, but you will have the experience. This new experience could completely inspire you to see a different point of view. You may not change your thoughts on the Alley Cat race but you might feel different about government getting in the middle of another rider’s experience. You could end up seeing my point of view.

These words sound like the voice of a cheap oracle

I'm sorry I couldn't help myself 

[Paulo Mesquita]

1 hour ago, Sumako said:

@Paulo Mesquita- Your brings up a very important point, and one that should have been spread across the board when the discussion started with being upset over the Ally Cat race. USA issues on the subject and the rest of the world are so different, this thread should have been split up into 2 or more threads. There should have been a separate thread for us US citizens to discuss the matter with our concerns and a separate version for the international community. It’s also important to acknowledge that what happens in the USA is not going to have any impact on those of you Globally. Culture/laws are different in the states than what other countries deal with. 

So, Paulo I do apologize if you felt that my comments about asking for regulations/licenses and alike were aimed at you and your international friends. My posts were really aimed more towards any UC rider in the states; because EUCs here in America are already street legal. We have laws guiding EVs.  Obviously other countries do not.

@Sumako thanks for the clearing up. For a moment I thought I'd met my 1st troll 😂😂😂😂.

As I mentioned long before, this is probably the most important thread this community has ever or will ever discuss. Here we might be sketching many strategies and even country lobbies that will determine the future of EUCs. Well see... 

[Mark13i]

21 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Now there's a good oxymoron

Sorry.  It's Google, I'm linguistically illiterate - I wrote "differently intelligent" but Google changed this text to: American Culture

Edited July 5, 2021 by Mark13i

[Paulo Mesquita]

18 minutes ago, Mark13i said:

You underestimate the power of American culture. 

Today almost all over the world, an engagement ring must have a diamond.  The worldwide fashion for giving a beloved woman diamonds began with a few Hollywood movies and words from Marilyn Monroe;  Diamonds are girl's best friends.  Before these films, the diamond was one of many gemstones and no one linked it to a woman.  

Did you know?

@Mark13i... I married 4 times, what do you think? 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Planemo]

Just now, Paulo Mesquita said:

@Mark13i... I married 4 times, what do you think? 😂😂😂😂😂😂

I rhink you're mad to be honest. Once will be enough for me, after that I'm a bachelor for sure.

[Mark13i]

46 minutes ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

@Mark13i... I married 4 times, what do you think? 😂😂😂😂😂😂

You see  There are only problems with these American movies.

 

 

 

...and Chinese riding toys 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Mark13i

[Planemo]

8 minutes ago, Mark13i said:

Do you see  the same problems with these American movies.  

 

 

 

...and Chinese riding toys 

I wouldn't advise suggesting EUC's are 'toys' on this forum. You will be flailed, then hung, drawn and quartered. And then for good measure, lose your head.

[winterwheel]

 

13 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I wouldn't advise suggesting EUC's are 'toys' on this forum. You will be flailed, then hung, drawn and quartered. And then for good measure, lose your head.

One of many things subject to such treatment in these parts.

[Treatz]

54 minutes ago, Sumako said:

You completely missed the point

This thread was always about a simple matter of riding with consideration for others and not putting them in fear for their safety. That’s the only reason the ally cat video was referenced and discussion about it being a bad look for the community.  Simple.

Everything else = Distraction

 

[Paulo Mesquita]

49 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I rhink you're mad to be honest. Once will be enough for me, after that I'm a bachelor for sure.

They should mak a law allowing EUCs and forbidding me😂

[Paulo Mesquita]

6 minutes ago, Treatz said:

This thread was always about a simple matter of riding with consideration for others and not putting them in fear for their safety. That’s the only reason the ally cat video was referenced and discussion about it being a bad look for the community.  Simple.

Everything else = Distraction

 

Not really agreeing with you. The ally cat video opened a door to the main issue: where are EUCs ( and PEVs in general) going to be with all the diversity of behaviors and laws to contain those behaviors. 

It's literally a pandora's box that is being opened all over the world.