Incredibly bad look for this community.

[bcarp]

Long thread, which I’ve followed since about 15 pages ago yet never managed to find this video the OP speaks of…

[AssassinOTL]

2 minutes ago, bcarp said:

Long thread, which I’ve followed since about 15 pages ago yet never managed to find this video the OP speaks of…

There are places you can find it, I won’t help anyone find it tho, it’s time to move on. Just leave it at that, there’s a more kosher version on if on Hsiang’s channel, this other one was from a professional video editor that just captured more angles of it and decided to show it raw from the top placing riders. It was well after most of us saw the event, just that this video sparked more outrage for some reason. 
 

there are plenty other racing videos out there to for your viewing pleasure. 

[winterwheel]

22 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Maybe think of it as a drunk uncle in a wedding. You are allowed to disapprove and disagree, but you can’t take the bottle out of his hands (until he’s dancing on the table without pants). You simply need to bite your tongue, and accept that some people are and stay wrong.

How is this not breaking your own guidelines?

[Paulo Mesquita]

10 hours ago, onizukagto said:

Probably because until EUC become more common, it is inevitable that any law applied to escooters will more than likely apply to EUC as well. 

You only have to see the legal history of cars, motorbikes, bikes. 

And also how laws applied to escooters currently around the world that also affect EUC.

Yes, that's what is happening in Portugal. All self balancing EVs are limited tov25km/h and an Amp power that is ridiculous. Fortunately our police haven't read the news law yet (too busy with Covid confinement). And haven't seen too many EUCs yet... 

[Paulo Mesquita]

5 hours ago, winterwheel said:

The point I was trying to make is that it is up to us to help the public draw the distinction between the two. If we don't do it, surely nobody else will. When we start citing accidents and whatnot for scooters as if they were equally applicable to us, then we're failing in that and yes, we'll end up suffering the consequences that arise from bad scooter behaviour.

The problem with e-scorers here in Portugal is that they had thousands for rental. And it went crazy. Stupidckids and adults, crashing them against cars, hitting pedestrians, riding them into pools, and even riding them inside moving trains. Now that the sh*t hit the fan the law engulfed all EV vehicles and riders, EUC included!!! 😡😡😡😡

[Paulo Mesquita]

3 hours ago, Kekafuch said:

The culture of a scooter rider and EUC rider is more similar than dissimilar. Major news topics like the actor getting hit and run by a escooter is relevant to EUC riders as we occupy the same physical space and commercial space and judged by the same public opinion… an opinion which eventually  can influence policy makers. 
 

My opinion is if the city were to clamp down on PEV users …. That it would be EUC users getting axed before escooters even though its escooters causing accidents! Escooters have larger lobbying power. They are safer by design. If there’s pressure to limit the streets, fast machines will be taken when found breaking the laws. Homebuilts and niche devices (EUC) banned outright from being on the roadways. 

Exactly. Actually you see that any idiot can get on an e-scooter and ride it immediately, while the EUC rider has a much harder learning curve, so less idiots go for the EUC, naturally. But the law is putting all EVs in the same bag.... 

[Paulo Mesquita]

17 hours ago, Paul A said:

News coverage from United States, United Kingdom, France, Poland

 

USA: https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/06/16/lisa-banes-dies-after-upper-west-side-hit-and-run/

When asked if the city will better regulate e-bike and scooter traffic infractions, Mayor Bill de Blasio said, “I’m very troubled when people go against traffic and create danger for themselves and others. So we’re going to keep refining how we regulate, how we enforce. But again, anytime we believe a particular company is not acting in a way that’s safe for New Yorkers, we also maintain the option to shut them down.”

 

UK:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9689609/Bill-Blasio-calls-regulation-e-scooters-actress-Lisa-Banes-dies-hit-run.html

The mayor of New York City pointed the finger at the state for legalizing electric scooters last year and said we 'have to be smart about' allowing the vehicles to further flood 'one of the most crowded places on earth.'

 

France: https://www.fr24news.com/a/2021/06/actress-lisa-banes-dies-after-being-hit-by-an-electric-scooter-and-hit-and-run-in-new-york.html

As a result, she suffered a head injury, the Post reports, and witnesses said the scooter driver blew a red light and then fled after mowing it down.  The force of the scooter impact caused Banes to fly off the crosswalk.

 

Poland: https://www.polishnews.co.uk/in-wake-of-lisa-banes-death-bill-de-blasio-calls-for-more-e-scooters-e-bikes-regulations/

De Blasio stated throughout a Tuesday press briefing that New Yorkers have expressed concern that the town is “going to see increasingly crowded streets, increasingly crowded bike lanes, various kinds of autos going at various kinds of velocity” and that it’s “going to be troublesome for pedestrians.”

 

 

We're screwed 😔. Since day one, on my EUC (last January) I was going to find some kind of licencing and insurance for my EUC riding. They're none. I wouldn't mind at all getting a special license for euc riding even if I had to go through a driving test. Just to get the law on my side and avoid issues with the authorities. 

[Paulo Mesquita]

11 hours ago, Camenbert said:

Why keep posting about eScooter Kills on EUC forum, do you really want people to make no differences?
There is an old say "Be careful of what you ask, because you might get it"

There have also been a hit & go last week in Paris, a young women die. The 2 men on a (rental I guess) escooter have just been arrested.
200kg of body on poor escooter maneuverability, with no respect to the device as not owned, and maybe drunk, what could go wrong?
I am sorry to say, but such death well happen every week.

The problem is the rental scheme, you can have never ride a scooter, you can have no knowledge of the device or respect for it, you can be 2 on one, you can be drunk as hell, you'll still find a escooter at the corner of the street begging "take me for a ride".
NONE of this apply to EUCs.

It's amazing to see the politics (still) making a difference, but not some of the EUC "community"
"Incredibly bad look for this community" apply for this other extreme too.

THE PROBLEM IS THE RENTAL SCHEME!!! 100% CORRECT!!! Same in Portugal and im guessing all over the world. Idiots on rental e-scooters!!! 

[Paulo Mesquita]

4 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

To be fair, the only possible outcome was negative press. No one clicks on "e-scooters are amazing and why everyone needs to start riding them!!". They read the headline and move on. But what does get clicks? "Famous Acctress killed by electric scooter" , "Escooters are destroying our way of life and must be stopped" , "Dangerous new technology injuring children at alarming rates."

Unfortunately in todays age we no longer have news outlets, we have media. And medias job is to get clicks. And statistically, negative stories get more clicks. People whant the juicey details and will click article after article to get it. Happy go lucky stories are one offs at best, you cant milk it for revenue. Positivity also doesnt pull at peoples emotions the same way negativity does. 

One bad piece of media, ruins hundreds or even thousands of good EUC riding behaviors. It's all about perception in the media and right now percepruon is very negative which is bad news for us. 

The same happened with the 1st cars. They ran over people, killed them, killed horses, destroyed property.... they were called machines of the devil in the 1st years. The difference was that an accident with a car then, would only go on the local newspaper. Now it goes on worldwide media in seconds! Like wildfire! 

[Treatz]

1 hour ago, Tasku said:

I do hope certain someone(s) would stop attacking @winterwheel. \

 

We can't have people being attacked, Tasku. You have my support on this. I'm all for a healthy debate where people are accountable for their own comments. Nobody should be personally attacked.

If you truly believe attacks have been made against Winterwheel, then as his friend you must come forth:

1. So that there's no vagueness or confusion, simply define what you mean by "attack"

You didn't say threaten, or bully, or insult. You said "attack" and that can mean a lot of things, some of which are very serious. Since it was your word, you must be able to give us the detail of what constitutes an attack in your worldview.

2. Provide the evidence of the attack.

To avoid misrepresenting someone's words, just use the handy quote feature that you've already been using.

 

Also, I want to make sure of something. You don't think that challenging a person's words is the same as attacking them, do you?

The only thing I have seen is people disagree with Winterwheel's words. I know I'm one of them for sure. I haven't seen anyone attack his character such that you needed to write his biography. But, you're friends, and I respect that. That's why you should have the chance to clarify.

With your help, we can keep the conversations focused on content and not get into personal attacks. 

Thank you in advance for coming forward with what you know about these "attacks."

 

 

[winterwheel]

I'll say I'm not quite so pessimistic about things (media reaction to pev incidents) and leave it at that.

Edited June 25, 2021 by winterwheel

[Paulo Mesquita]

2 hours ago, Treatz said:

 

Absolutely, not only will I allow it, I will offer you the exact same courtesy

This topic is of extremely high value, contrary to your statement. The topic is safety, concern for others and reflecting on how we want to be seen. What, to you, is more important than those topics when it comes to EUC’s?

As for the “misinformation, opinions, sidetracks, nonsense and trolling” that you accuse others of: those are all terms that I believe accurately describe your posts during this thread. I can’t see a single place where you helped bring the topic on track and many instances where you throw out blanket statements that are off topic. 

It appears we are both now filled in.

Itrully believe that this topic, egos aside, will bring new levels of enlightenment to us all as a community. It is crucial that we exchange, insights, ideas and information, valid to our many countries, laws, societies and cultures. 

It is vital if we are committed to protect and keep alive this hobby/sport that we all love!!!! 

[Paulo Mesquita]

Guys, please don't make it personal. This discussion is vital to all of us. I, for one, am reading and trying to understand and validate every point of view. In Portugal we have a saying:" From the discussion light is born". 

Let's keep thinking and respecting everyone's opinion. I might be a rookie on EUCs, but in life I'm not. And I truly believe that this thread is probably the most important in our forum. I also believe that we are, slowly, with all our opinions and different cultural views, refining and defining what will be the the future, understandable and silent ethics code of EUC riding. 

We are building something important for the EUC future here, although we still don't completely grasp it yet. 

Please keep the debate going on, it is crucial. 

[Paulo Mesquita]

12 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

I'll say I'm not quite so pessimistic about things (media reaction to pev incidents) and leave it at that.

I agree with part of what youre saying. My problem is politicians. They put everyone in the same bag when they draft a law on something they don't understand completely.... 

[Paulo Mesquita]

15 minutes ago, Treatz said:

We can't have people being attacked, Tasku. You have my support on this. I'm all for a healthy debate where people are accountable for their own comments. Nobody should be personally attacked.

If you truly believe attacks have been made against Winterwheel, then as his friend you must come forth:

1. So that there's no vagueness or confusion, simply define what you mean by "attack"

You didn't say threaten, or bully, or insult. You said "attack" and that can mean a lot of things, some of which are very serious. Since it was your word, you must be able to give us the detail of what constitutes an attack in your worldview.

2. Provide the evidence of the attack.

To avoid misrepresenting someone's words, just use the handy quote feature that you've already been using.

 

Also, I want to make sure of something. You don't think that challenging a person's words is the same as attacking them, do you?

The only thing I have seen is people disagree with Winterwheel's words. I know I'm one of them for sure. I haven't seen anyone attack his character such that you needed to write his biography. But, you're friends, and I respect that. That's why you should have the chance to clarify.

With your help, we can keep the conversations focused on content and not get into personal attacks. 

Thank you in advance for coming forward with what you know about these "attacks."

 

 

I'm an ex advertising copywriter and I've seen no bullying here, only a live, insightful debate and ideas. 

This has not been at all unpleasant to read and participate in, on the contrary. 

... Maybe because I'm calloused by four marriages... (sorry, I can't resist in lightening up the environment a bit). 

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Treatz]

haha...I definitely want dating tips from you! (maybe not so much on the marriage tips though :D)

Like Sarif said to Morpheus in Matrix Revolutions:  "You never truly know someone, until you fight them."  It's true. We're gonna disagree. I think all of us who debated here have revealed who we are in ways. It's how we "fight" with each other that matters. 

I'm totally down for moving on to other issues and do what all of us should be doing instead:  riding our wheels (without risking other people's safety, in my humblest of opinion).  

Stay safe and have fun, to everyone!

[Paulo Mesquita]

8 minutes ago, Treatz said:

.... "You never truly know someone, until you fight them.".... 

... applies to ex wives too 😁

[AssassinOTL]

Well for everyone that’s worried about getting banned, don’t worry that much. It’s New York, it’s the culture no one there takes it personal, it seems like everyone outside the city was more upset than the people on the crosswalks, these events have been happening since before YouTube. I.E 

you don’t hear a mob going after the cyclist that run these events all the time and around the world. So I’m just saying put the torches and pitchforks down. And the nitpicking of words. I’d hate to see cancel culture bleed over into this community I’m not really vocal on this forum but it seems majority of the community is. But I’ve been watching this go on longer that the Twitter bouts, and just think the toxicity is just going to breed more from here on out. 

 

[winterwheel]

1 hour ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

My problem is politicians.

Sure, but let's remember quite a few of those millions of scooter riders also have a right to vote, pressure their local politicians etc.

[Paulo Mesquita]

1 minute ago, winterwheel said:

Sure, but let's remember quite a few of those millions of scooter riders also have a right to vote, pressure their local politicians etc.

And if they are millions they might have more leverage than us to get some kind of legitimacy for EVs 👍

[Treatz]

2 hours ago, AssassinOTL said:

Well for everyone that’s worried about getting banned, don’t worry that much. It’s New York, it’s the culture no one there takes it personal, it seems like everyone outside the city was more upset than the people on the crosswalks, these events have been happening since before YouTube. I.E 

you don’t hear a mob going after the cyclist that run these events all the time and around the world. So I’m just saying put the torches and pitchforks down. And the nitpicking of words. I’d hate to see cancel culture bleed over into this community I’m not really vocal on this forum but it seems majority of the community is. But I’ve been watching this go on longer that the Twitter bouts, and just think the toxicity is just going to breed more from here on out. 

 

 

Everything you said is an absolute rerun:  Everyone who disagrees with you is cancel culture, nitpicking, carrying pitch forks, haters, bullies, going after people, toxic. etc. We literally covered every single one of your points, including the whole "if you're not from ny, you're a whimp" stuff. 

Is there a single new thing here, AssassinOTL? 

You're the one claiming to be so fed up with this thread, wishing everyone would shut up and move on. Yet here you are, in full view,throwing every single distraction that's been called out already. 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Treatz

[PLEASE_DELETE]

14 hours ago, Treatz said:

It’s time for moderators to step in, please.  There has to be something against trolling on this forum.

If this guy can’t see the connection between escooters and euc’s, just like he can’t see the difference between criticism and bullying, then he’s not here to have a sincere conversation. At this stage, it’s starting to appear as gaslighting. 

He barges in here calling us bullies because he disagrees with us. Then he prances in here with his “repeat after me” nonsense…in bold…3 annoying times. 

this thread is about concern for other people’s safety—yet he’s tried to make it about everything else. Just read his comments throughout this thread. This forum member clearly won’t let the conversation be about that.

He can’t comprehend that the public and lawmakers and law enforcement see no meaningful distinction between euc’s and e-scooters, but he makes it our problem.

Not to go too far off topic, but he attacked me saying I was trolling, and I reported to mods.  They didn't agree with me.  I put him on my ignore list.  I suggest you do the same.

[AssassinOTL]

57 minutes ago, Treatz said:

 

Everything you said is an absolute rerun:  Everyone who disagrees with you is cancel culture, nitpicking, carrying pitch forks, haters, bullies, going after people, toxic. etc. We literally covered every single one of your points, including the whole "if you're not from ny, you're a whimp" stuff. 

Is there a single new thing here, AssassinOTL? 

You're the one claiming to be so fed up with this thread, wishing everyone would shut up and move on. Yet here you are, in full view,throwing every single distraction that's been called out already. 

 

 

This is the toxic mentality I’m talking about. I never posted my take on it, so how could you be against it? But you’ll over look the point I made, and brush over it because you won’t drop your torch and pickaxe have a good life living as a keyboard warrior. 

[AssassinOTL]

Go ahead an make all the fuss you want about it, till the wrong person hears and bans it because all of the negative attention rather than seeing the actual event, then you’ll learn, this thread is a lost cause. Won’t be back 🤣

[Treatz]

36 minutes ago, AssassinOTL said:

This is the toxic mentality I’m talking about. I never posted my take on it, so how could you be against it? But you’ll over look the point I made, and brush over it because you won’t drop your torch and pickaxe have a good life living as a keyboard warrior. 

I'm not against your take. I don't even know what your take is. 

I've never approached you for a conversation. We've never met. We've never spoken. I've never wronged you.

But you can't say the same. Without knowing me, you judged my character publicly and called me names on this forum.

I have no idea who you are why you are saying any of these things. You came out of nowhere at me. You really do live up to your screen name.

Everything I've said is here in print and anyone can check it out at any time. You and I have no problems as far as I'm concerned. But you do owe me an apology. That's a fact.

I think what you did is toxic. Have I done ANYTHING to you at all to earn your attacks on me?  The answer is no.

However, I do wish you a good life without any insult or parting shot. I wish you happy and safe wheeling. But please, do not address me directly ever again.