Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[That Guy]

I reckon S23 is coming…

[Mrd777]

Well I ordered a S22 a YEAR ago from Ewheels, I still am waiting for the wheel and its been a crazy journey watching and reading about every aspect of this wheel, from a fire, to a slider and now a possible wire (recall) on boards.   I just went through all this with my V12, and yes I know how these first generation wheels are problematic and we should just stay away.    Now what?    

Does it make sense to cancel this order pick one up a few batches down the road?  I'm tired of this game..

[litewave]

1 minute ago, Mrd777 said:

Well I ordered a S22 a YEAR ago from Ewheels, I still am waiting for the wheel and its been a crazy journey watching and reading about every aspect of this wheel, from a fire, to a slider and now a possible wire (recall) on boards.   I just went through all this with my V12, and yes I know how these first generation wheels are problematic and we should just stay away.    Now what?    

Does it make sense to cancel this order pick one up a few batches down the road?  I'm tired of this game..

I'm in the same situation as you. One year is an awfully long time to wait.

Still, I'm giving Jason and eWheels at least until the V13 reveal. I'm certain he is going the extra mile to make sure the wheels are safe for his customers, as well as to mitigate any business risks.

[Rawnei]

Some self-promotion, for those who might not have seen it but might be interested I am designing a bunch of 3D printed accessories for the S22 that are free to download, I have a thread over here:

More things coming.

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Mrd777 said:

Does it make sense to cancel this order pick one up a few batches down the road?  I'm tired of this game..

I'm thinking along the same lines sadly. Summer is turning to fall... maybe next June they'll have sorted out the batch 1 problems. I don't expect a significant change to the sliders though!

1 hour ago, litewave said:

Still, I'm giving Jason and eWheels at least until the V13 reveal. I'm certain he is going the extra mile to make sure the wheels are safe for his customers, as well as to mitigate any business risks.

That seems a fair date. I had been hoping to have enough time to sort out any infant mortality issues before taking it on a road trip—only room for 1 wheel and I don't want to drag around something that ends up with a dead motherboard. And I really really don't want to pedal a bicycle (so arcane). But the timing is getting very tight.

The "in customs, should be next week" message has been the standard for several weeks now so either the shipment is just about to clear or we're getting hozed (unlikely, what would be the point of that after all this time?). My hope is on 'just about to clear', I heard the shipment that arrived in the Port of Tacoma took about a month to get through customs when it usually takes a week so...

But if it can't get to me with a bit of time to shake it down before the road trip starts… I'll ride the crap out of 16XS and S18 until next summer. eWheels won't care, they have plenty of orders lined up.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Tawpie

[enaon]

15 hours ago, supercurio said:

some or all S22 units so far.

this makes a lot of difference, kingsong's serial includes production date and sequential number, maybe step one is to make a list of the ones with a problem, or ask KS for a production date range affected.
 

Edited August 4, 2022 by enaon

[UniMe]

I remain confused why they didn't simply refine and expand the S18. It seems they had a functional base to build from, but instead 'reinvented the wheel'!!

It must be possible to build a wheel with about 6-7" of smooth travel, where the rider sags about 2.5-3" into it. When a manufacture finally gets there it'll be a win for sure, so long as it's reasonably waterproof and reliable.

Doesn't seem too hard, sad to see manufactures being so inept.

[Forwardnbak]

1 hour ago, UniMe said:

I remain confused why they didn't simply refine and expand the S18. It seems they had a functional base to build from, but instead 'reinvented the wheel'!!

It must be possible to build a wheel with about 6-7" of smooth travel, where the rider sags about 2.5-3" into it. When a manufacture finally gets there it'll be a win for sure, so long as it's reasonably waterproof and reliable.

Doesn't seem too hard, sad to see manufactures being so inept.

i remain confused about the time between the fire and now, that was a heap of time to test quality of units and have FW ready. 

[techyiam]

11 hours ago, Mrd777 said:

Does it make sense to cancel this order pick one up a few batches down the road?  I'm tired of this game..

If you are allowed, I would. 

What is also seriously concerning is that the issues that Kevin encountered some months ago, of which Kingsong agreed to address, are still present in the latest production units as confirmed by @Rawnei.

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, UniMe said:

I remain confused why they didn't simply refine and expand the S18. It seems they had a functional base to build from, but instead 'reinvented the wheel'!!

+1 on that.

Especially, in light of what they end up with after the amount of time they spend on it.

(1) Slider design that is inferior to what might be found in some toys.

(2) 126V system that is crippled, and can be outperformed by 100V systems, and is still buggy.

(3) Quick tire change design that is rendered useless because of inept use of fasteners and thread locking compound. 

(4) Motor clunking that was never resolved even after Kevin brought it to light when he received the first S22 in the UK.

Having said that, I like the styling in person. It has a solid premium feel to it. And it feels tight. Ergo wise, the top is too wide for my legs. And lastly, its suspension action reminds of the S18.

Unfortunately, they don't seemed to be capable of getting a few critical parts right.

Since they don't seem to have the engineering prowess, perhaps they should consider resorting to upgrading the S18.

[buffs]

Has anyone tried lowering the suspension geometry to improve suspension comfort? I've seen videos from Wrong Way and Ekolka (the "Mustard" modifications) where they adjusted the geometry to the lowest position for improved comfort. My wheel came in the middle position. Is it as simple as removing the 3 screws on each side and adjusting to the lowest position, or is more disassembly required?

[Miko.cz]

15 minutes ago, buffs said:

Has anyone tried lowering the suspension geometry to improve suspension comfort? I've seen videos from Wrong Way and Ekolka (the "Mustard" modifications) where they adjusted the geometry to the lowest position for improved comfort. My wheel came in the middle position. Is it as simple as removing the 3 screws on each side and adjusting to the lowest position, or is more disassembly required?

I recommend you to try first this middle position, maybe you will be nicely suprised as I was. (I had the same idea, but i will probably keep default. Maybe change spring a bit to 550 or 650lbs - needs more km)

Edited August 4, 2022 by Miko.cz

[buffs]

42 minutes ago, Miko.cz said:

I recommend you to try first this middle position, maybe you will be nicely suprised as I was. (I had the same idea, but i will probably keep default. Maybe change spring a bit to 550 or 650lbs - needs more km)

i installed a 450lb coil and have been riding it for about 80 miles. It's definitely better with the lower spring rate, but it's still not very comfortable on small bumps. My S18 is actually more comfortable on the small bumps. On something like a curb drop, the S22 is much better. I was hoping the S22 would be a better version of the S18 for comfort, but I haven't found the right configuration yet. That's why I'm interested in changing the suspension geometry, assuming that's an easy adjustment to make.

[Rawnei]

25 minutes ago, buffs said:

i installed a 450lb coil and have been riding it for about 80 miles. It's definitely better with the lower spring rate, but it's still not very comfortable on small bumps. My S18 is actually more comfortable on the small bumps. On something like a curb drop, the S22 is much better. I was hoping the S22 would be a better version of the S18 for comfort, but I haven't found the right configuration yet. That's why I'm interested in changing the suspension geometry, assuming that's an easy adjustment to make.

Might be the sliders also, could be improved like eco-drift did (this is what I have done but with slider custom slider protectors) but it's difficult to advice it since not everyone has the know-how or components (3D printer) to do so, could go wrong also.

[Miko.cz]

29 minutes ago, buffs said:

i installed a 450lb coil and have been riding it for about 80 miles. It's definitely better with the lower spring rate, but it's still not very comfortable on small bumps. My S18 is actually more comfortable on the small bumps. On something like a curb drop, the S22 is much better. I was hoping the S22 would be a better version of the S18 for comfort, but I haven't found the right configuration yet. That's why I'm interested in changing the suspension geometry, assuming that's an easy adjustment to make.

sorry, wrong assumption you are waiting for it or just received.

[Tawpie]

4 hours ago, buffs said:

Is it as simple as removing the 3 screws on each side and adjusting to the lowest position

Without direct knowledge, it 'seems' like it's just the 3 screws on each side. You might need to disconnect the shock (bottom end) or at least release all the preload on the spring, when you change the linkage arrangement the shock gets involved too.

[jrhz06]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Without direct knowledge, it 'seems' like it's just the 3 screws on each side. You might need to disconnect the shock (bottom end) or at least release all the preload on the spring, when you change the linkage arrangement the shock gets involved too.

Just 3 screws on each side, easy peasy.

[Rawnei]

9 hours ago, buffs said:

Has anyone tried lowering the suspension geometry to improve suspension comfort? I've seen videos from Wrong Way and Ekolka (the "Mustard" modifications) where they adjusted the geometry to the lowest position for improved comfort. My wheel came in the middle position. Is it as simple as removing the 3 screws on each side and adjusting to the lowest position, or is more disassembly required?

Unfortunately they have used apt amount of loctite and it's very difficul to get them off without damaging them.

[Tawpie]

14 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Unfortunately they have used apt amount of loctite and it's very difficul to get them off without damaging them.

Here's a question: given that is this case where

     a) having the screws vibrate loose and fall out is catastrophic and
     b) the screws are easily available for visual inspection,

a mechanical retainer would be more appropriate than locktite?

I hesitate to say something like "split lock washer" given what KS decided to do with them on the S18, but sometimes it seems that glue isn't the only, and might not be the ideal solution.

I wish we had a mechanical/structures Engineer that could go through and tell us exactly what fastener to buy (which material) and how hard to torque each one.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Tawpie

[litewave]

7 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Unfortunately they have used apt amount of loctite and it's very difficul to get them off without damaging them.

Use a heat gun as demonstrated in several videos.

[Elliott Reitz]

8 hours ago, buffs said:

i installed a 450lb coil and have been riding it for about 80 miles. It's definitely better with the lower spring rate, but it's still not very comfortable on small bumps. My S18 is actually more comfortable on the small bumps. On something like a curb drop, the S22 is much better. I was hoping the S22 would be a better version of the S18 for comfort, but I haven't found the right configuration yet. That's why I'm interested in changing the suspension geometry, assuming that's an easy adjustment to make.

Lowering the geometry reduces your travel.  And I don't find the S22 too topheavy.  Rather its just a sluggish pig under 5mph.  So I don't recommend changing geometry - because you'll find it stiffer too (I tried it).  The suspension is 3:1 travel : shock-compression at the top, but only 1.1:1 at the bottom.  So lowering geometry makes it stiffer for the small stuff.  

8 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Might be the sliders also, could be improved like eco-drift did (this is what I have done but with slider custom slider protectors) but it's difficult to advice it since not everyone has the know-how or components (3D printer) to do so, could go wrong also.

The grease and those rubber bottom-out-stoppers got like glue in my 1st S22.  After removing them, and removing the grease replacing it with 3in1 oil my sliders work way better now.  

Edited August 4, 2022 by Elliott Reitz

[Rawnei]

22 minutes ago, litewave said:

Use a heat gun as demonstrated in several videos.

They are near the batteries, not a fun place to use a heat gun, one option is to take the motor out but that's a lot of work if you just want to move those links.

[Elliott Reitz]

2 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

They are near the batteries, not a fun place to use a heat gun, one option is to take the motor out but that's a lot of work if you just want to move those links.

Mine came loose easy enough.  But I have a set of impact bits to go with a DeWalt 20V impact driver (screw-driver).  That seems to break things loose better than manual tools. Also after full insertion to the bolt I lean it to eliminate any contact-slack (that works on the battery box screws that strip so easy).

[Eucner]

40 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

a mechanical retainer would be more appropriate than locktite?

This is good. It might not fit into all tight places. https://www.nord-lock.com/nord-lock/products/washers/

Edited August 4, 2022 by Eucner

[jrhz06]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

They are near the batteries, not a fun place to use a heat gun, one option is to take the motor out but that's a lot of work if you just want to move those links.

Mine came out without any issues.