Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Rawnei]

For reference if anyone seeing the same problem on their S22.

So I had a fault in my S22 yesterday, out riding near home testing suspension settings and it started to tilt back then beep, display shows battery with exclamation mark, app says BMS NTC fault, left side pack BMS error, temperature sensor no.5 on left pack shows -40c.

Had to trolley the wheel home which was a bit difficult because of the very aggressive tilt-back and (at least perceived) rolling resistance, halfway home I discovered that you can turn the wheel around and then it was super easy to push for 20-30 meters as it was slowly tilting to the other direction and then you turn it around again and keep repeating like that.

After some troubleshooting, re-flashing BMS and such basic steps I communicated with Myewheel and they had already seen a case like this where the wire for a temp sensor had come loose causing the exact same error, it was easy enough to remove the pack to check and confirm that it's the same problem.

So I had the option to ship pack back to Myewheel for repair or try to repair locally, me and @supercurio (who has much more soldering experience than me) decided to take a look at the pack today and yes the wire for temp sensor no.5 had just snapped off from the solder point, reason: the temp sensor was installed in such a way that wire was stretched and had no headroom so any tiny movement/vibrations would put to much stress on it until it snapped. I'm just happy this didn't happen when I was far away from home out in the forest the other day🙏.

We (mostly @supercurio 🙏) fixed the pack today and all is fine again, the wire is very small, the area you have to work within is also quite cramped so it's a bit difficult plus you're working on a live battery pack 😨 but in the end the operation was a success.

1. Solder point is covered by epoxy so you have to soften that with acetone and scrape it off first

2. Since temp sensor (which is installed with silicone on battery) was installed in such a way wire became a bit too short we moved the sensor a bit closer (and attached it again with silicone)

3. Re-soldered wire to solder point

4. Put some silicone over the solder points

5. When installing the pack back in into the case you can use a string pulled through inside the case and attached to the power/bms cables to easily get them through the hole at the top (tip I got from Myewheel) making the installation procedure super easy

According to Myewheel KS is already aware of this issue.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Rawnei

[wstuart]

3 hours ago, onkeldanuel said:

Was it completely stock or was done something to Suspension/sliders? Since i had a V11 too and now have a S22 coming i like your input

I also would like your input if you could compare to a V11.  I too have a v11

[supercurio]

After less than 140km ridden and some immense fun, on street and off-road a couple days ago with @Rawnei, my S22 motor started to make bad sounds.
It wasn't the fender, not the bearing either, nope. Seemed to be coming from the motor itself. It was quickly confirmed by the sound increasing after small accelerations or braking.
I was riding again with @Rawnei today, just left home we decided to ride back the 1-2km to back slowly.

Once back home, I tried to see if the sound would appear on free-spinning with the idea of making a video. It did, and it disappeared! It was unlikely that would be an actual fix so I tried more.
Changing direction back and forth was stuttering a bit, and the sound would disappear and re-appear sometimes worse.

Then I grabbed the camera to show the bad sound issue for warranty purposes and, well, see for yourself:

 

List of possibly relevant issues identified with this wheel:

1. Controller making significant coil noise according to how the motor was driven.
2. Noticed in the beginning of the awesome off-road ride in Ekerö: odd rubbing-like sound, more when turning right than left which fixed itself after a few km (we thought it could have been the poorly seated tire/fender)
3. Noticed since the beginning: vertical oscillations beyond 50kph, which I attributed to the tire.
4. Noticed since yesterday: vibrations when self-balancing, more apparent at 0 or low speeds. I compared with @Rawnei's S22 today, his was very stable and had 0 motor vibration.

I had concerns due to the controller "singing" and motor vibrations and considered requesting replacements.
If not another - working wheel, that will require new, hopefully reliable controllers and motor now. What a bummer. QC at its worst.

On the plus side (almost) not riding a wheel exhibiting a fault prevented a crash, so at least there's that. Make sure to not ride you S22 if its motor makes any unexpected sound.

Edited August 14, 2022 by supercurio

[wstuart]

7 minutes ago, supercurio said:

After less than 140km ridden and some immense fun, on street and off-road a couple days ago with @Rawnei, my S22 motor started to make bad sounds.
It wasn't the fender, not the bearing either, nope. Seemed to be coming from the motor itself. It was quickly confirmed by the sound increasing after small accelerations or braking.
I was riding again with @Rawnei today and pretty bumped, we decided to ride back the 2km to home slowly.

Once back home, I tried to see if the sound would appear on free-spinning with the idea of making a video. It did, and it disappeared! It was unlikely that would be an actual fix so I tried more.
Changing direction back and forth was stuttering a bit, and the sound would disappear and re-appear sometimes worse.

Then I grabbed the camera to show the bad sound issue for warranty purposes and, well, see for yourself:

 

List of possibly relevant issues identified with this wheel:

1. Controller making significant coil noise according to how the motor was driven.
2. Noticed in the beginning of the awesome off-road ride in Ekerö: odd rubbing-like sound, more when turning right than left which fixed itself after a few km (we thought it could have been the poorly seated tire/fender)
3. Noticed since the beginning: vertical oscillations beyond 50kph, which I attributed to the tire.
4. Noticed since yesterday: vibrations when self-balancing, more apparent at 0 or low speeds. I compared with @Rawnei's S22 today, his was very stable and had 0 motor vibration.

I had concerns due to the controller "singing" and motor vibrations and considered requesting replacements.
If not another - working wheel, that will require new, hopefully reliable controllers and motor now. What a bummer. QC at its worst.

On the plus side (almost) not riding a wheel exhibiting a fault prevented a crash, so at least there's that. Make sure to not ride you S22 if its motor makes any unexpected sound.

BUMMER!!!!

Every time I'm about to pull the trigger on my S22 pre order, I see a post like this....... maybe it's a sign???  I'm considering switching to the T4.

- didn't you post a video with that wheel earlier where you tested for bad mosfets by picking it up and tilting it back and forth?  Maybe that test caused this?

- maybe the motor bearing wasn't seated correctly causing rubbing in the motor.  Early Begode EXs suffer from this, but the motor sounds don't get that bad.

Edited August 14, 2022 by wstuart

[supercurio]

14 minutes ago, wstuart said:

BUMMER!!!!

Only an educated guess until the motor is opened, but I suspect loose motor coils or magnet(s). I don't think bearings are involved since the issue was amplified by motor torque (aka coils pulling on magnets), and torque has essentially no impact on the bearings.

You're right, the V12-style spin test highlighted some strong clonks, uncommon - no other wheel does that. Possibly an indicator of the issue ahead of time?
Today the issue started a minute after some off-road, going over roots and rocks.

I still recommend the test every owner. If there's a defect, you want the wheel to fail early when it's indisputably under warranty, and when you're not risking to crash.
Because yes, even riding "like Marty" and without testing, that one would have failed sooner or later.

Edited August 14, 2022 by supercurio

[Miko.cz]

23 minutes ago, supercurio said:

After less than 140km ridden and some immense fun, on street and off-road a couple days ago with @Rawnei, my S22 motor started to make bad sounds.

Sorry to hear that.
Im afraid I have some issue with my motor too (after 80km). Distributor will check it tommorow. But its different sound - its a clang-clang-clang (not every wheel turn), random appearing, with much higher probability when turning left. Sometimes 5km nothing, completely irrelevant on surface ridden or speed or power demands. Only sound, nothing else affected (yet).

Edited August 14, 2022 by Miko.cz

[supercurio]

@Miko.cz very similar description to what happened first, sounds louder on one side than another, which eventually disappeared after riding at 55kph+.
Centrifugal force might have helped to put things back in place at the time.

I would not recommend riding it, and see what happens with the spin test. That's pretty much what finished mine.
Although maybe not the best idea since it's likely to also fry the board. But yes, no doubt must be checked.

Edited August 14, 2022 by supercurio

[Paul g]

@supercurio is very probable the hall sensors got loose and detached. Does the seller allow you to open the motor? @Miko.cz, the same. The sensor hits the internal ribs of the side panel.

You could have the some magnets that got loose, as you say, but that is worse than just a hall sensor busted.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Paul g

[supercurio]

8 minutes ago, Paul g said:

@supercurio is very probable the hall sensors got loose and detached. Does the seller allow you to open the motor? @Miko.cz, the same. The sensor hits the internal ribs of the side panel.

Yes possible that the hall sensor got detached instead, your hypothesis makes a lot of sense. Do you know on which side the hall sensor is supposed to be?
Poorly attached hall sensor would also explain the motor vibrations. Then the early symptoms would have appeared only after the first street ride - with power pads where I rode aggressively.
That also means that bumps - brilliantly handled by the suspension would have triggered the issue, not the spin test.

Opening the motor is not my priority since I have a bunch more work to complete first, to get another unavailable, poorly QC'd wheel back in working order (my own Sherman Max).
If I open this motor, that would be to investigate but not to attempt to repair it, I'll demand a working replacement part. 

At no point the wheel indicated any hall sensor or other error BTW.

[NErider]

Since making full payment on my S22 confirming my pre-order,  I was really hoping that I would not be seeing the type of posts that have been popping up here in the past few days. Lol 

For the above possible motor issue,  I did see a vid about KS finding metallic debris inside the motor stuck to the magnet causing faults. And the repair was to disassemble, wipe it away,  and put back into service. 

But the board may have already smoked too so...?  Best wishes? 

[Miko.cz]

Well, we will see. Distributor is not expecting magnet or some free debris as it could totaly crash the motor. Expected some particulary/half loosed part. But thats the speculation for now only, I will let you know. Im also changing coil from 750 to 450lbs same time.

[Forwardnbak]

KINGSONG?? anyone going to help all these nice folks with issues? 

[Forwardnbak]

mine is down now 

just on advice from KS, noise in motor 

[wstuart]

4 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

mine is down now 

just on advice from KS, noise in motor 

I saw you mentioned that slight motor noise in your last video.  I was a little surprised because from your videos it seems like you are pretty gentle on that wheel. 

So Kingsong told you to not ride your wheel because of that small intermitent clicking sound from the motor??

Edited August 15, 2022 by wstuart

[Forwardnbak]

4 minutes ago, wstuart said:

I saw you mentioned that slight motor noise in your last video.  

So Kingsong told you to not ride your wheel because of that small intermitent clicking sound from the motor??

yep, i’ve shot 2 more videos since that one. In the vid today i took time to get some better audio of it and sent it to KS. They spoke with engineers and told me to stop riding as it’s my motor. Told me to contact my dealer which is already helping, i asked the dealer if it’s too late and can i switch to v13. Waited a long time and not even a week in its down, just like so many others - shame 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Forwardnbak

[wstuart]

Just now, Forwardnbak said:

yep, i’ve shot 2 more videos since that one. In the vid today i took time to get some better audio of it and sent it do KS. They spoke with engineers and told me to stop riding as it’s my motor. Told me to contact my dealer which is already helping, i asked the dealer if it’s too late and can i switch to v13. Waited a long time and not even a week in its down, just like so many others - shame 

So sorry to hear that man!  Yeah thats not fair - you waited a long time and deserved to have a good wheel.

[Rawnei]

1 minute ago, Forwardnbak said:

yep, i’ve shot 2 more videos since that one. In the vid today i took time to get some better audio of it and sent it to KS. They spoke with engineers and told me to stop riding as it’s my motor. Told me to contact my dealer which is already helping, i asked the dealer if it’s too late and can i switch to v13. Waited a long time and not even a week in its down, just like so many others - shame 

The problem is due to poor QC and there is nothing saying that Inmotion has better QC with all the problems they have been having with V12 HS and HT, if they send you a new motor where they know the issue has been identified and fixed that would be a very good option.

[Forwardnbak]

1 minute ago, Rawnei said:

The problem is due to poor QC and there is nothing saying that Inmotion has better QC with all the problems they have been having with V12 HS and HT, if they send you a new motor where they know the issue has been identified and fixed that would be a very good option.

it’s the silence from KS, and the long long time they had to fix these issues. 

Inmotion for me has been a flawless experience. I understand they have issues.

It is what it is but my confidence has kind of gone from KS at this point. I asked if they could elaborate on the cause? updated motors available? new control boards? they couldn’t offer anything so not too sure they have a fix.

 

[Rawnei]

3 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

it’s the silence from KS, and the long long time they had to fix these issues. 

Inmotion for me has been a flawless experience. I understand they have issues.

It is what it is but my confidence has kind of gone from KS at this point. I asked if they could elaborate on the cause? updated motors available? new control boards? they couldn’t offer anything so not too sure they have a fix.

 

Having had problems both with V11 and V12 they we're far from flawless for me, one required motor change, same predicament you are in now, other required a brand new control board design.

[Forwardnbak]

5 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Having had problems both with V11 and V12 they we're far from flawless for me, one required motor change, same predicament you are in now, other required a brand new control board design.

damn that sucks you had such a bad run, i guess that’s how brand loyalty starts both good and bad. My experience with inmotion has been ok. I like that they step up and offer solutions is what i’ve seen of them.

Silence from KS worries me, plus the amount i am seeing down without them responding. I know 2 that landed in my state in the last week and both now down. 

[Rawnei]

3 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

damn that sucks you had such a bad run, i guess that’s how brand loyalty starts both good and bad. My experience with inmotion has been ok. I like that they step up and offer solutions is what i’ve seen of them.

Silence from KS worries me, plus the amount i am seeing down without them responding. I know 2 that landed in my state in the last week and both now down. 

The best we can do is put pressure on them together with the resellers, the resellers are in a bad situation as well as all the problems are eating up their margins.

[Robse]

Excuses given:   my comment is of no practical use for anyone, but this is so bad reading, even worse than the V12 mosfet story, that i have to say something: I'm sad for all the "proud" owners of this wheel.   I'm gratefull to the gods of wheels that in a dream told me to NOT TO buy a suspension wheel...and NOT TO buy another 16" (V12)  OMG!!!   If it had been me, i would probably have traveled to *****, found the people responsible, made them drink 10 liters of vinegar and told them how bad i think they are acting.

[That Guy]

Can this break KingSong? :-( They haven’t announced a new wheel for almost a year now… 

[daniel1234]

15 hours ago, supercurio said:

After less than 140km ridden and some immense fun, on street and off-road a couple days ago with @Rawnei, my S22 motor started to make bad sounds.
It wasn't the fender, not the bearing either, nope. Seemed to be coming from the motor itself. It was quickly confirmed by the sound increasing after small accelerations or braking.
I was riding again with @Rawnei today, just left home we decided to ride back the 1-2km to back slowly.

Once back home, I tried to see if the sound would appear on free-spinning with the idea of making a video. It did, and it disappeared! It was unlikely that would be an actual fix so I tried more.
Changing direction back and forth was stuttering a bit, and the sound would disappear and re-appear sometimes worse.

Then I grabbed the camera to show the bad sound issue for warranty purposes and, well, see for yourself:

 

List of possibly relevant issues identified with this wheel:

1. Controller making significant coil noise according to how the motor was driven.
2. Noticed in the beginning of the awesome off-road ride in Ekerö: odd rubbing-like sound, more when turning right than left which fixed itself after a few km (we thought it could have been the poorly seated tire/fender)
3. Noticed since the beginning: vertical oscillations beyond 50kph, which I attributed to the tire.
4. Noticed since yesterday: vibrations when self-balancing, more apparent at 0 or low speeds. I compared with @Rawnei's S22 today, his was very stable and had 0 motor vibration.

I had concerns due to the controller "singing" and motor vibrations and considered requesting replacements.
If not another - working wheel, that will require new, hopefully reliable controllers and motor now. What a bummer. QC at its worst.

On the plus side (almost) not riding a wheel exhibiting a fault prevented a crash, so at least there's that. Make sure to not ride you S22 if its motor makes any unexpected sound.

We have one s22 with same problem in Brno czech republic from first batch -> it went to reseller for repair. It sucks that is so hard to take motor apart - there will be just some mess around magnets. Clinging noise slowly getting worse - rider rather stopped riding wheel. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by daniel1234

[Forwardnbak]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

The best we can do is put pressure on them together with the resellers, the resellers are in a bad situation as well as all the problems are eating up their margins.

i agree i’ve stuck by my reseller and think heaps about them. I understand their position. As a consumer i’ve let ks know my thoughts, i think dealers need to be stronger with them. These aren’t cheap and people and dealers feel it $ also it just bums you out.