Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Rollin-on-1]

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

Overly increasing the max charge voltage just leads to single cell group overvoltage and premature bms cut off.

If charge cut off happens around the manufacturer specified roughly 50-60mA per patalleled cell there is no problem with balancing.

In contraty, risk of fire should be drasticly decreased.

Agreed, that is how things should work.  It sounds like the charger output voltage and the BMS cutoff voltage are not well calibrated and cells aren't getting fully charged and are not getting balanced.  I'm wondering if anyone has had success in getting their cells to balance?

[litewave]

2 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

I'm wondering if anyone has had success in getting their cells to balance?

@Marty Backe has posted a YT video demonstrating how to adjust the S22 charger to achieve a full 126v 'balanced' charge across all cells.

The video wasn't perfectly clear, and he edited out the tedious experimentation twisting the potentiometer screw.

Maybe someone can replicate his success more effectively and describe what direction and roughly how much the screw needs to be turned.

 

[Rollin-on-1]

1 hour ago, litewave said:

@Marty Backe has posted a YT video demonstrating how to adjust the S22 charger to achieve a full 126v 'balanced' charge across all cells.

The video wasn't perfectly clear, and he edited out the tedious experimentation twisting the potentiometer screw.

Maybe someone can replicate his success more effectively and describe what direction and roughly how much the screw needs to be turned.

 

Several people have adjusted the pots, but I have yet to see anyone get a fully balanced pack.  With the BMS 2.12 from soft tuner, the cells that are balancing so up in blue (iirc).  I have seen screen shots of a few cells showing up as blue, but only a fraction of the cells in the pack.  To get them to start balancing, the charger was adjusted up to something like 126.7v.  But it sounded like the amps didn't go down like they usually do for balancing.  I believe it was @supercurio that was experimenting with the output voltages.

[Driftcycle]

Looks like KingSong is more focused on getting the S16 / S24 out rather than addressing the issues that are now cropping up - https://www.facebook.com/kingsong.international/posts/501292125331875

Hopefully they do a V12 style recall if more users continue to be affected with motor / controller issues, once those are ironed out we should be good.

I rather just deal with soft problems like the sliders.

They still have time to get this wheel right so that we can postpone moving to the 130lb wheels until KingSong design team innovates that category with a lighter 60+ mph wheel .

I for one am not looking forward to the first time losing control of a 130lb wheel and watch it tumble down the street playing Russian Roulette with an innocent bystander as I'm sure not many want to be tethered to a 130lb+ wheel.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Driftcycle

[Forwardnbak]

ERIDERZ - my local dealer was outstanding! 

My wheel has a new motor and ready for pick up. I’ll be rolling again tomorrow. Take 2, fingers crossed. 

[fbhb]

2 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

ERIDERZ - my local dealer was outstanding! 

My wheel has a new motor and ready for pick up. I’ll be rolling again tomorrow. Take 2, fingers crossed. 

Sweet, excellent prompt service from your dealer. Glad to hear you will be rolling again real soon!

[Forwardnbak]

8 minutes ago, fbhb said:

Sweet, excellent prompt service from your dealer. Glad to hear you will be rolling again real soon!

Yea that service was way excellent. Such an unexpected time to turn it all around. Great support. I know the service team worked way hard and a massive shout out! 

[Chriull]

6 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

Several people have adjusted the pots, but I have yet to see anyone get a fully balanced pack.  With the BMS 2.12 from soft tuner, the cells that are balancing so up in blue (iirc).  I have seen screen shots of a few cells showing up as blue, but only a fraction of the cells in the pack.  To get them to start balancing, the charger was adjusted up to something like 126.7v.  But it sounded like the amps didn't go down like they usually do for balancing.  I believe it was @supercurio that was experimenting with the output voltages.

Seems Kingsong did not do something good by showing cells getting "balanced" - either the contrary. This beeing balanced means the cell got charged to some voltage above 4.2V and gets discharged by the bleeding resistor again.

A new and good pack is perfectly fine if no cell gets balanced at a full charge.

Should be not trivial to adjust the charger with all the involved tolerances (from BMS and motherboard voltage measurements) and not worsening the situation... ;(

However if one thinks of adjusting his charger to "optimize balancing" maybe oine should start by reading through 

to understand how passive balancing works in every detail do really improve the charging.

[That Guy]

1 hour ago, Driftcycle said:

Looks like KingSong is more focused on getting the S16 / S24 out rather than addressing the issues that are now cropping up - https://www.facebook.com/kingsong.international/posts/501292125331875

Haha! KingSong are reading our posts here very carefully and have now responded to our concerns about their future... :-)

[techyiam]

39 minutes ago, That Guy said:

Haha! KingSong are reading our posts here very carefully and have now responded to our concerns about their future... :-)

You may be right. This is good news two reasons.

(1) Kingsong takes feedback from the euc community seriously. 

(2) Kingsong is not only not closing down and fleeing, they are committed, and are hard at work on their next euc release.

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, Driftcycle said:

I for one am not looking forward to the first time losing control of a 130lb wheel and watch it tumble down the street playing Russian Roulette with an innocent bystander as I'm sure not many want to be tethered to a 130lb+ wheel.

First of all, losing control of a 130 lbs euc is a lot better than losing control of a 600 lbs motorcycle, or worse, 6000 lbs SUV. In addition, it is a lot eaier to go faster on a motorcycle or in a car.

Secondly, an euc breaks up upon impact a lot easier than either a motorcycle or an SUV. In short, an euc would do a lot less damage than either a motorcycle  or an SUV.

Thirdly, unlike a motorcycle or car, a newbie won't be able to ride a 130 lbs euc. Unless you are an advanced rider, the probability is low that you will be riding a 130 lbs euc.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by techyiam

[Driftcycle]

57 minutes ago, techyiam said:

First of all, losing control of a 130 lbs euc is a lot better than losing control of a 600 lbs motorcycle, or worse, 6000 lbs SUV. In addition, it is a lot eaier to go faster on a motorcycle or in a car.

Secondly, an euc breaks up upon impact a lot more easier than either a motorcycle or an SUV. In short, an euc would do a lot less damage than either a motorcycle  or an SUV.

Thirdly, unlike a motorcycle or car, a newbie won't be able to ride a 130 lbs euc. Unless you are an advanced rider, the probability is low that you will be riding a 130 lbs euc.

 

Agreed - you do have a point, there are indeed more dangerous things to lose control of in this world sadly.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Driftcycle

[EUCzero]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

First of all, losing control of a 130 lbs euc is a lot better than losing control of a 600 lbs motorcycle, or worse, 6000 lbs SUV. In addition, it is a lot eaier to go faster on a motorcycle or in a car.

Secondly, an euc breaks up upon impact a lot easier than either a motorcycle or an SUV. In short, an euc would do a lot less damage than either a motorcycle  or an SUV.

Thirdly, unlike a motorcycle or car, a newbie won't be able to ride a 130 lbs euc. Unless you are an advanced rider, the probability is low that you will be riding a 130 lbs euc.

 

Well... thing is that it does not happen nearly as often in a car or on a MC as on an EUC.
For real? How often does it happen in % of you car rides? The car just going on without control....  or a MC.
The think of how often it happens during EUC riding in %...

Come on. Keep it real. Don't live in a fantasy!
Don't hear me wrong. I love riding EUC. But never ever start believing it is just as safe as driving a car.
 

Edited August 17, 2022 by EUCzero

[techyiam]

32 minutes ago, EUCzero said:

Come on. Keep it real. Don't live in a fantasy!
Don't hear me wrong. I love riding EUC. But never ever start believing it is just as safe as driving a car.

Do you know why the Motor Vehicle Act was passed in 1972? in Canada, and I believe in the USA too?

And do you know why euc’s are not currently federally regulated?

Show us the statistics to support your claim.

Edited August 17, 2022 by techyiam

[Robse]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

First of all, losing control of a 130 lbs euc is a lot better than losing control of a 600 lbs motorcycle, or worse, 6000 lbs SUV. In addition, it is a lot eaier to go faster on a motorcycle or in a car.

Secondly, an euc breaks up upon impact a lot easier than either a motorcycle or an SUV. In short, an euc would do a lot less damage than either a motorcycle  or an SUV.

Thirdly, unlike a motorcycle or car, a newbie won't be able to ride a 130 lbs euc. Unless you are an advanced rider, the probability is low that you will be riding a 130 lbs euc.

 

Motorcycles and SUV's dont drive like idiots on pavements, bicycle lanes, among pedestrians etc....

[techyiam]

34 minutes ago, Robse said:

Motorcycles and SUV's dont drive like idiots on pavements, bicycle lanes, among pedestrians etc....

Regardless of what you are riding, if you are recklessly endangering the public, the police will stop you and even arrest you. 

Interestingly enough, I have only seen a few euc riders when I am out riding. It is still a rare sight. But all of them so far are polite. Although I haven’t really seen many ding dongs riding PEV’s in general, euc riders are among the least rowdy in these parts. And they ride well. I don’t see learners on the road or on bike paths unless if they are a kids. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by techyiam

[EUCzero]

I gonna let this discussion go back to S22. And not continue to discuss general EUC safety here.

[Rollin-on-1]

13 hours ago, Chriull said:

Seems Kingsong did not do something good by showing cells getting "balanced" - either the contrary. This beeing balanced means the cell got charged to some voltage above 4.2V and gets discharged by the bleeding resistor again.

A new and good pack is perfectly fine if no cell gets balanced at a full charge.

Should be not trivial to adjust the charger with all the involved tolerances (from BMS and motherboard voltage measurements) and not worsening the situation... ;(

However if one thinks of adjusting his charger to "optimize balancing" maybe oine should start by reading through 

to understand how passive balancing works in every detail do really improve the charging.

Are you in the S22 telegram chat?  There has been some good conversation by knowlegeable people on the charging/balancing observations.  The discussion could use your input as well.

Here is the link to the telegram chat:

https://t.me/s20eagle

[Chriull]

4 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

Are you in the S22 telegram chat?  There has been some good conversation by knowlegeable people on the charging/balancing observations.  The discussion could use your input as well.

Here is the link to the telegram chat:

https://t.me/s20eagle

Thanks for the link - just did a short scan and did not find something in the near padt about balancing there. Quite much discussion going on

Will try to follow a bit next time...

Or scan a bit more the history whats written there to gather some observations about the s22 bms firmware behaviour.

[Javier464]

I have updated the protectors of the guides to be able to grease and perform maintenance easily 

 

I put the video

 

https://youtu.be/Th-_d49wYMI

[Rollin-on-1]

12 hours ago, Chriull said:

Thanks for the link - just did a short scan and did not find something in the near padt about balancing there. Quite much discussion going on

Will try to follow a bit next time...

Or scan a bit more the history whats written there to gather some observations about the s22 bms firmware behaviour.

There is a search function built into telegram.  That should help you find the relevant discussions.  There were two big discussions about 1 - 2 weeks apart.  The most recent was a day or two ago.

[supercurio]

10 hours ago, Javier464 said:

I have updated the protectors of the guides to be able to grease and perform maintenance easily
I put the video

https://youtu.be/Th-_d49wYMI

Clever design 👏
Does it make cleaning more difficult however (then more of a tradeoff). I don't know if cleaning is necessary in that case.

[Rawnei]

Slider protectors won't fully 100% protect from dust and spraying more PTFE on top go dusty channels won't help much I recon, if it was dust proof then no huge need to re-apply PTFE, maybe I'm wrong though? 🤷

[Javier464]

I refer to the tests

Before every 100 km my sliders would get stuck, now I have 300 km and it is still perfect, I have not had to apply more ptfe yet

[Tawpie]

18 hours ago, Javier464 said:

I have updated the protectors of the guides to be able to grease and perform maintenance easily 

 

I put the video

 

https://youtu.be/Th-_d49wYMI

Are you going to sell your guide/protectors? They do look like an excellent solution and I'd buy a set (in black, or better still blue ).

What I think is special about your solution is being able to flush out the sliders without taking the wheel apart. Sure, some amount of dust will still get in there but if you can flush it out and re-lubricate without removing the motor that's a huge improvement.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Tawpie