Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[oolong]

8 hours ago, Mayhem said:

Nothing wrong with being excited for new tech. We all enjoy these machines in the same regard but you can’t complain about Q.C when people paid for an unproven product……

Oh you can definitely complain about QC on a new product....  KS spent a long time testing this thing and we would assume after being in the business for nearly 10 years they should have gotten their manufacturing techniques down by now to insure as few defects as possible.  KS was always known as the "quality" alternative to Gotway/Begode, but clearly they've been slipping with the S20/S22.   Of course early batches have more risks but manufacturers should always be in the mindset of releasing "proven" products.   KS probably lost millions of dollars on the S22 just from bad PR and production delays.

A lot of those delays couldn't be avoided due to Covid, but clearly they dropped the ball once things got going again.

The next generations of EUCs are no joke as far as speed and performance and these companies literally have our lives in their hands.  Though to be fair, I haven't heard any issues of high speed cut outs like with the Master.  Most of the issues with the S22 seem to be low speed scenarios, motor noises, and charging issues.  So the S22 does appear to be a reasonably "safe" wheel even with the various problems that have been reported.

[Miko.cz]

I have my S22 for about month now. Im relearning riding (because of injury and switching from smaller 16S). About 300km only now.

1. one year preorder was too long, but in general what does it meant:
   • a lower price (2630 USD)
   • some Covid complications
   • some issues solved (at last firmware/)
   • unicycle tested in real for a year
   • final hardware solution
2. My issues
   • motor knock
   • 2 screews replaced (QC!) by reseller
3. Overal feeling:
   • KS QC is really terrible (this time, 16S have no rela issues) - but I know it, Jack mentioned it before in first video
   • stable product parts and market - no v1, v1.5, v2 incompatible like the Master
     (no problems with what received is already obsolette)
   • no worries about hardware, I dont remember fatal crash for S22 (suspension, rim... but still, NY flamethrower was crazy)
   • too much born issues, even for 1.batch - again, QC should reduce most of them!
   • added: Still missing 3rd party report about BMS solution promissed by KS after NY incident
4. My S22 feeling:
   • great wheel, range and comfort for my use
   • looks like easy to opening
   • tons of headroom for me (speed, power, tolerance to rider or surface problems)
   • immediatelly ready for ride from the box (all-in-one for start)
   • reseller (ekolka) is helping to address QC issues and tons of my questions
   • KS have not very good communication, for example about how new BMS works (charging not to 126V, why yes or no)
   • minor issues - front lights glare, backward leaning, not very good seat
   • question - sliders. I simply dont know the solution quality from long therm, we have a lot of demo pieces running for 1 year, still OK.
5. Changes:
   • PTFE to sliders and 450lbs coil
   • front light covers to reduce glare

Sorry for a toooooooo long post. I still dont regret. We will see.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Miko.cz
added BMS report missing

[techyiam]

On 8/24/2022 at 2:36 PM, Elliott Reitz said:

Anyway, I'm looking forward to an S22 V2 40T. 

Will this be your third S20/22? 

[Hellkitten]

2 hours ago, That Guy said:

Tell us later what he thinks of S22... ;-)

He’s riding a Sherman max.......🤣

[techyiam]

8 minutes ago, Hellkitten said:

He’s riding a Sherman max.......🤣

Wait a minute. He switched from his S22 to a Master only about 3 months ago. Are you implying that he bought a Sherman Max recently, or did he borrow one from somebody?

[Tawpie]

6 hours ago, techyiam said:

did he borrow one from somebody?

He's on eevee's payroll now, so has pretty good access to wheels!

[techyiam]

44 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

He's on eevee's payroll now, so has pretty good access to wheels!

Is @Jack ex-KS in Vancouver or Toronto?

@Hellkitten is in Toronto, at least that is what his profile says.

If Jack is in Toronto, shipping would be costly. Jack wouldn't be able to switch wheels on a whim, I presume.

[Mayhem]

9 hours ago, oolong said:

but clearly they've been slipping with the S20/S22.   Of course early batches have more risks but manufacturers should always be in the mindset of releasing "proven" products. 

Exactly this but a proven product is never what is released on early batches. That’s a heck of gamble to take not only with your money but with your life. These machines are flying…. Just look at the v13 for example inmotions “high speed tester” chickened out at a speed slower then the v12 top speed. Which means the v12 was never tested at high speed by inmotion so it’s no surprise why v12 is a cut out wheel….

 

if the products were proven upon release we wouldnt have such high Qc problems with preorder batches. Don’t give the companies money until we see what we are actually getting with irl testing. 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Mayhem

[NErider]

I received the Grizzla Pads in the mail already and the Erides Pedals are set to be delivered today. And with any luck, this time next week, I may have the S22. Being on the East Coast, I'm sure to be a few days behind some of you. 

Edited August 26, 2022 by NErider
Edit for grammar

[NErider]

53 minutes ago, Mayhem said:

Exactly this but a proven product is never what is released on early batches. That’s a heck of gamble to take not only with your money but with your life. These machines are flying…. Just look at the v13 for example inmotions “high speed tester” chickened out at a speed slower then the v12 top speed. Which means the v12 was never tested at high speed by inmotion so it’s no surprise why v12 is a cut out wheel….

 

if the products were proven upon release we wouldnt have such high Qc problems with preorder batches. Don’t give the companies money until we see what we are actually getting with irl testing. 

There has got to be way to test the wheels on a treadmill of some type without putting people at risk.

 It would have to have adjustable resistance to account for wind load and acceleration forces. It wouldn't even have to be accurate. You just add resistance until the volts drop, or the amp limit is reached and the tilt back should start to proof its functions. 

[Tawpie]

17 minutes ago, NErider said:

There has got to be way to test the wheels on a treadmill of some type without putting people at risk.

There are videos of test rigs at GW and KS, I haven't seen any videos at IM but they must have them!

[Mayhem]

7 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

There are videos of test rigs at GW and KS, I haven't seen any videos at IM but they must have them!

^^^ this, all companies should use these rigs and put some serious mileage on the wheels. Makes no sense to base all your specs on these light weight riders they use in china when their main target audience aren’t feather weights. 

[Miko.cz]

16 minutes ago, Mayhem said:

^^^ this, all companies should use these rigs and put some serious mileage on the wheels. Makes no sense to base all your specs on these light weight riders they use in china when their main target audience aren’t feather weights. 

China population in 2020: 1.4 bilion, avg. male 77.7 kg (171.3 lb). As a member of small nation I can just say: deal with it (sorry).
Range measuremets are affected by tons of thing, so its there just for a very limited idea, more for marketing fight (I dont like it, but it seems to be normal).

[NErider]

I was think more along testing for  tiltback, cutouts, mosfet popping, battery fire, grinding noises from the motor, ect than range testing. 

[Mayhem]

13 minutes ago, Miko.cz said:

China population in 2020: 1.4 bilion, avg. male 77.7 kg (171.3 lb). As a member of small nation I can just say: deal with it (sorry).
Range measuremets are affected by tons of thing, so its there just for a very limited idea, more for marketing fight (I dont like it, but it seems to be normal).

Much greater population without a doubt but they aren’t the ones who are putting these machines through their paces ( max speed, range etc..) 

correct a marketing gimmick just like when they claim 90 miles range!! (at a speed of 18mph on a perfectly flat road with no wind & 150lb rider)

Edited August 26, 2022 by Mayhem

[litewave]

Kingsong S20 S22 Eagle Range Test (Production Model)

3,083 views Jun 19, 2022 Simple range test of my production version Kingsong S22. 180 lbs (81.6Kg) all up with the max speed of the wheel set to 25 Mph (40Kph). Average speed about 18-20 Mph (28 - 32 Kph)

 

 

[litewave]

On 8/24/2022 at 1:53 PM, oolong said:

The impression I got from a week or so ago was that eWheels already had the S22s in their possession and they were going to spend a week checking things over and making sure there are no major issues before shipping them out.  This makes it sound like they are just going to ship them out as soon as they receive them.

Based on the previous batch, it seems like 10% (my guess) of S22s are having some kind of issue.  Some minor, other's major.  It would be nice if they did some basic checks and updated the firmware before sending them out.  I would actually pay extra for them to do that rather than dealing with potential early batch issues when it gets here. 

Yet another week and still no 40T S22s have shipped.

eWheels has many years experience importing wheels through Port of LA, and I wonder if they set unreasonable expectations. Were they basing their emails to customers on previous timelines? Is the timeline the same, or was their payment late? Was there something about this shipment of S22s that is taking longer to clear US Customs than others? The S22 product page has been showing ETA September for some time, even though their recent emails were suggesting [previously] July then (late) August.

Edited August 26, 2022 by litewave

[Tawpie]

There was a report that eWheels said customs hadn't cashed the check they wrote on Aug 8, that report is about a week old. I would guess this is a case of "only customs knows", perhaps eWheels knows too but thus far they're not willing to share.

Remember that the CPSC is mad at both KS and US distribution for not recalling the 16S over a battery fire, there may be a pissing contest going on. According to reports 160 e-bikes and e-scooters caught fire in New York last year so it's possible the safety regulators are flexing their muscles.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Tawpie

[kiitick]

Customs has been paid, they cashed the check a week ago.  Now all we are waiting for is for them to pull their heads out and release the containers.  As with any other bureaucracy, it could be anything that is causing the delay.  Maybe the ONE person that is the final stage took this week off because he got covid. 

I think eWheels is an awesome company, they have been really transparent with what's been going on. If you are impatient to get a s22 in the US, I believe that EUCO has them in stock, or they did as I was typing this response.  I'm going to hold out and get the higher discharge battery, as I know what a difference it makes with my s18.  Having preordered LOTS of things, kickstartered MANY projects, and having lived before Amazon next day shipping, I can be patient with a company that has been really good to me. 

I'm still as excited about this wheel as I was when I preordered it back in December. Luckily, I know that Ewheels is great at working with me if there are any problems.   

[spitfire1337]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

There are videos of test rigs at GW and KS, I haven't seen any videos at IM but they must have them!

The V13 teaser had the wheel on a test rig.

[litewave]

4 minutes ago, kiitick said:

Customs has been paid, they cashed the check a week ago.  Now all we are waiting for is for them to pull their heads out and release the containers.  As with any other bureaucracy, it could be anything that is causing the delay.  Maybe the ONE person that is the final stage took this week off because he got covid. 

I think eWheels is an awesome company, they have been really transparent with what's been going on. If you are impatient to get a s22 in the US, I believe that EUCO has them in stock, or they did as I was typing this response.  I'm going to hold out and get the higher discharge battery, as I know what a difference it makes with my s18.  Having preordered LOTS of things, kickstartered MANY projects, and having lived before Amazon next day shipping, I can be patient with a company that has been really good to me. 

I'm still as excited about this wheel as I was when I preordered it back in December. Luckily, I know that Ewheels is great at working with me if there are any problems.   

I'm a prior customer and have been grateful for their support and customer service. I have also posted many positive comments about them on this site. However, I am not he only one to have these questions.

None of the responses so far address the question if they set (and managed) reasonable customer expectations for this shipment. I see this as an opportunity to provide constructive feedback.

[Tawpie]

33 minutes ago, litewave said:

None of the responses so far address the question if they set (and managed) reasonable customer expectations for this shipment.

I would say that eWheels, along with KS, totally booted this. There are many reasons I'm sure, but eWheel's communication has been uncharacteristically bad. I'm giving them extra slack because of the warehouse fire, pandemic, S20 fire, staffing issues, parts shortages, shipping delays etc. etc. but yeah, they haven't set or managed expectations very well at all.

If @Jason McNeil still reads this forum, when schedules are murky and all we hear are crickets, when targets are missed and no explanation is given… it doesn't help calm my jitters. eWheels has been famous for customer care for some time, but IMO they botched this one pretty badly.

(yes, I am and almost certainly will remain a loyal eWheels customer based on past experience and how they are handling the GW 900 wH battery situation. I view them as having my back, and these wheels are so uncertain, especially in their initial release, that I need eWheels' level of assurance)

Edited August 26, 2022 by Tawpie

[oolong]

4 hours ago, Mayhem said:

if the products were proven upon release we wouldnt have such high Qc problems with preorder batches. Don’t give the companies money until we see what we are actually getting with irl testing. 

 

Well the catch S22 is that people doing IRL testing are giving up the money to do so...   But like I said KS easily lost out on millions due to these early issues.   Gotway has always relied upon speed to market with the fastest and most powerful.  Whereas KS has always relied on quality.   If you're late to the market and your quality sucks then what do you have?     So I would think this is the kick in the pants that they need to get back on track. I hope they do because now that everyone is over 40mph+ I care more about quality than I do about raw speed.

[oolong]

1 hour ago, litewave said:

Yet another week and still no 40T S22s have shipped.

It's crazy....   I know that eucs have extra scrutiny because of the batteries, etc. but come on....    It is beyond absurd at this point.

[techyiam]

8 minutes ago, oolong said:

I care more about quality than I do about raw speed.

But in the case of the S22, you have neither. 

Sure, if you are a S22 diehard, you can overlook the many serious flaws, and be happy with the suspension dynamics after much work, and the red paint.

Early on, when @Jack ex-KS was still the marketing director for the S20, he admitted the the S18 launch was a flop, and Kingsong were serious about drastically improving their approach to new wheels, so that a repeat won't occur. Instead, we have now witnessed Kingsong have doubled down on failure.

And in the meantime, Begode continued to improve quality and performance quietly. 

I think only the V13 can challenge them. I hope Inmotion can pull it off.

There are couple of cgi concept images of the Sherman-S floating around, but there isn't enough of anything to garner interest.