Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Miko.cz]

14 hours ago, supercurio said:

I ran the V12-style stress test multiple times on my S22 unit (still unridden)....

I would like to have your nerves
As a result, isnt this stress test similar to quick acceleration/braking test ride like in the first fire in NY?

[Paul g]

15 minutes ago, enaon said:

I actually like the design of s22's suspension system, time will tell if indeed it is easy to get worn out if maintained.  

 

The truth is, good or bad, there is no other wheel out there to ofer that suspension travel, so it’s the only one really built for off-road. 

I wish it had telescopic sliders, but KS probably decided is too expensive.

[supercurio]

42 minutes ago, Paul g said:

Some better news! Enjoy riding it! Sweden is so beautiful, so many bicycle paths! I can only wish London was the same! 

Thanks. Happy to see the video was eventually rendered in HDR by YouTube, you can tell it was a really sunny day 😄
However... I think I'll wait, details coming in the next post.

[EMA]

15 hours ago, supercurio said:

I ran the V12-style stress test multiple times on my S22 unit (still unridden).

It passed!
I recommend this test on any new wheel - any model. Here's how to do it on an S22.

 

this is something, but a real offroad/climbing test is even better to test the wheel 

[tk463]

24 minutes ago, supercurio said:

However... I think I'll wait, details coming in the next post.

Did you break it on the pull test ? 

[enaon]

1 hour ago, Paul g said:

I wish it had telescopic sliders, but KS probably decided is too expensive.

I am happy it does not, I do not think cost was the their focus(it was going to be cheap anyway), i think they were looking to solve "rigidity" problems. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by enaon

[supercurio]

(message re-written upon request of the original source after multiple discussions with KingSong)

KingSong has communicated with their Chinese distributors about potential issues they identified affecting the mainboard and motor. Therefore they are preparing to send a certain amount of replacement parts, limited to their domestic market.

My predictions on the matter:
It is possible that KS is implementing this strategy to gain insight on the effectiveness on reliability and performance of the changes made. Depending on the results, international customers might also get replacement boards. That is still unclear and too early to tell.

Edited August 4, 2022 by supercurio
Original communication from KS to distributors removed upon request

[UniVehje]

So far of the three S22 units that I know of in Finland, one has a voltage difference problem (going back) and another blew the board after free spin incident (waiting for a new board). The third one (mine) has been stuck at UPS warehouse for a week now. 

[Rawnei]

20 minutes ago, supercurio said:

• Replacing the motor might be very hard for some, due to how the motor and suspension slider mechanism are attached.

In theory it should not be hard but since the screws are impossible to get off that makes it hard, even the screws for the linkage are stuck so even if motor comes with the base brackets you still need to get those off.

[techyiam]

34 minutes ago, enaon said:

I am happy it does not, I do not think cost was the their focus(it was going to be cheap anyway), i think they were looking to solve "rigidity" problems. 

  The closed box channel does provide rigidity. I am not familiar with the S18. What sort of rigidity issues have you encountered or know about?

[supercurio]

46 minutes ago, tk463 said:

Did you break it on the pull test ? 

At least I'll run the pull test confidently now as I'm expecting the S22 will get replacement boards.

Kingsong will have a meeting internally soon to decide how to handle the (potential?) recall internationally.
Distributors outside of china are not in the loop yet. I guess they should be after that meeting.

For now, if you ask your distributor, know that they'll be completely oblivious to the situation.

[daniel1234]

39 minutes ago, supercurio said:

At least I'll run the pull test confidently now as I'm expecting the S22 will get replacement boards.

Kingsong will have a meeting internally soon to decide how to handle the (potential?) recall internationally.
Distributors outside of china are not in the loop yet. I guess they should be after that meeting.

For now, if you ask your distributor, know that they'll be completely oblivious to the situation.

Looking forward for pull test result ! I had s22 just for 2 days - but seems there is some current limitation on low RPM. I think they protecting battery. Take all gear and expect nosedive on pull test

[supercurio]

Okay there are concerning indicators on KingSong's approach.

I'm afraid there are now elements corroborating the infamous Facebook post claiming that KingSong was trying to keep customers quiet on issues. Down to tracking down who shared what, and complaining about it by calling people involved.
It's disappointing to see after we enjoyed more open, transparent and technical communication from KingSong on previous issues and delays.

Then in ongoing discussions, there are mentions of issues affecting only batches of Chinese wheels.
That's despite the mainboard failures which have been experienced globally (higher count than publicly reported) which would match the description of what the Chinese wheels are recalled for.

 

So if your S22 dealer experienced any mainboard or motor issues, I would encourage them to get in touch with KingSong now to demand resolution and inquire about the recall, as the discussion at the moment doesn't seem to go in the right direction.

Edited August 3, 2022 by supercurio

[UniVehje]

2 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Then in ongoing discussions, there are mentions of issues affecting only batches of Chinese wheels.
That's despite the mainboard failures which have been experienced globally (higher count than publicly reported) which would match the description of what the Chinese wheels are recalled for.

I know for certain at least 3/50 or 6% of one distributor's lot have had board failure so far. Could become more later. That's already 3x the rate mentioned on this chinese message. 

[techyiam]

8 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Then in ongoing discussions, there are mentions of issues affecting only batches of Chinese wheels.

In light of this new development, are you still going to do your pull test on your S22?

[supercurio]

@UniVehje 6 mainboard issues out of 7X (obfuscated intentionally) for another distributor

[supercurio]

8 minutes ago, techyiam said:

In light of this new development, are you still going to do your pull test on your S22?

There is mounting evidence indicating that whatever are the issues, they are not conveniently limited to a Chinese batch for which it's much easier and cheaper to complete a recall.

I mean, the usual dance begun. OEM downplaying the issues, "it's only this batch", "it's fixed since XXX production" etc.
Every single time 😔

Edited August 3, 2022 by supercurio

[techyiam]

15 minutes ago, supercurio said:

There is mounting evidence indicating that whatever are the issues, they are not conveniently limited to a Chinese batch for which it's much easier and cheaper to complete a recall.

I mean, the usual dance begun. OEM downplaying the issues, "it's only this batch", "it's fixed since XXX production" etc.
Every single time 😔

Ah, so Kingsong may not be better than Inmotion in this regard. No doubt cost is going to mount nonlinearly once you go international. So, it is no surprise that all the manufacturers would hem and haw, initially. 

[Guilherme]

On 8/2/2022 at 1:58 AM, Tawpie said:

Argggggg... obviously, call your reseller first.

If they'll allow it, I would open it up and unplug, inspect and replug all of the connectors just in case one got loose? IIRC, @Brendan "nog3" Halliday might know what that error means, he would surely have better advice than I can offer.

yeah,, they said it was simple: remove the baterry....and... 

 

But NO : I bought a brand new.. I will not open it....

 

so I return and they will send me a new one...

 

by the way: here in Brazil it cost U$ 6.000  .....

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Guilherme said:

so I return and they will send me a new one...

good call. no sense in accepting dead on arrival! But 6000USD, that's a lot of money. oof.

My fingers are crossed for your next delivery to work perfectly!!!

[Paul g]

I’m curious though, how these incidents occurred, were these wheels under extreme stress, more then was declared they can do, or just in normal use? Because that makes all the difference.

[Paul g]

8 hours ago, enaon said:

I am happy it does not, I do not think cost was the their focus(it was going to be cheap anyway), i think they were looking to solve "rigidity" problems. 

@enaon Sorry, what kind of rigidity? You mean the close tolerances that made the tubes too tight and affected sliding?

Edited August 3, 2022 by Paul g

[Guilherme]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

good call. no sense in accepting dead on arrival! But 6000USD, that's a lot of money. oof.

My fingers are crossed for your next delivery to work perfectly!!!

Tks Dude

[UniMe]

sigh... recalls already...

I appreciate the early adopters and enthusiasts willing to take a chance with this new product and to go through all the hassles of teaching a company what they should have tested and known since the beginning.

I had a lot of hope for this wheel, but am 100% certain there is no way I would sign up for the amount of maintenance that is required with the suspension design. Perhaps KS will redesign this with a roller system (apparently it can be done) in the next year or two. I buy a product to use, not to modify and endlessly maintain.

 

[Tawpie]

Who knows anymore. Rollers and grit don't get along well together either (remember the clay wheels on skateboards and steel wheels on the clamp-to-your-shoes roller skates?). I still see most "outdoor use" sliders implemented as tube-in-a-tube with a hard wiping collar and internal o-ring… there's probably a reason.

I can deal with routine maintenance, I take my other KS wheels apart regularly to 'clean and inspect' anyway. Less maintenance is obviously better, but if it's really as straightforward as it appears, I think it'll be tolerable. Even @GoGeorgeGo's EX20S benefited from a clean and lube.

I finally got eWheels to reply to my "when" emails... "in customs" remains the status. Getting pretty bummed though. "This" far from saying forget it, I'll try again next year. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Tawpie