Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Paul g]

35 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Room temperature 24c, board temperature 18c, battery temperature 27c, motor temperature 18c.

Thanks @Rawnei! So indeed they misreport. It is amazing that they exaggerate battery temp. That could be a strategy to give the appearance there are errors in the temp sensors while still having much lower temps reported there where it counts most: board and motor.

Edit:    According to this site:  https://www.omega.com/en-us/resources/thermistor  the thermistors are highly accurate measuring devices and is no way they could give such errors:

“Temperature Range, Accuracy and Stability

Thermistors are highly accurate (ranging from ± 0.05°C to ± 1.5°C), but only over a limited temperature range that is within about 50°C of a base temperature. The working temperature range for most thermistors is between 0°C and 100°C. Class A thermistors offer the greatest accuracy, while Class B thermistors can be used in scenarios where there’s less need for exact measurement. Once the manufacturing process is complete, thermistors are chemically stable and their accuracy does not change significantly with age.”

Edited July 31, 2022 by Paul g

[Rawnei]

34 minutes ago, Paul g said:

Thanks @Rawnei! So indeed they misreport. It is amazing that they exaggerate battery temp. That could be a strategy to give the appearance there are errors in the temp sensors while still having much lower temps reported there where it counts most: board and motor.

Edit:    According to this site:  https://www.omega.com/en-us/resources/thermistor  the thermistors are highly accurate measuring devices and is no way they could give such errors:

“Temperature Range, Accuracy and Stability

Thermistors are highly accurate (ranging from ± 0.05°C to ± 1.5°C), but only over a limited temperature range that is within about 50°C of a base temperature. The working temperature range for most thermistors is between 0°C and 100°C. Class A thermistors offer the greatest accuracy, while Class B thermistors can be used in scenarios where there’s less need for exact measurement. Once the manufacturing process is complete, thermistors are chemically stable and their accuracy does not change significantly with age.”

Before jumping to conclusions I think it's good if more people check to get a bigger sample base.

[Miko.cz]

I work in server rooms (etc.) environmental monitoring devices/sensors manufacturer.
This kind of measurement is VERY limited (remember air is isolant, inhomogeneous environment, I walked around, sensors are not even at same place), but better than nothing:
Here is my quick test (cold start).

Relative room Humidity is around 44%

After start (2nd try, 1st was 2minutes before and I failed to read data in EUCW = on/off EUC+phone):

• Room sensor:  25.8°C
• Motor/Batt sensor: 25.3°C
• Heatsink sensor: 25.5°C
• Motor EUCW: 17°C
• Batt EUCW: 28°C
• Temperature (PCB?) EUCW: 18°C

15minutes later (parking position, no balancing, lights off, BT to EUCW active):

• Room sensor:  25.8°C
• Motor/Batt sensor: 25.6°C
• Heatsink sensor: 26.5°C
• Motor EUCW: 17°C
• Batt EUCW: 30°C
• Temperature (PCB?) EUCW: 19°C

Main fw: 2.22, BMS fw:2.10
Result: "Motor temperature" and "Temperature" (is it PCB?, i dont know) lies during cold start period.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Miko.cz
added fw ver

[Paul g]

1 hour ago, Miko.cz said:

I work in server rooms (etc.) environmental monitoring devices/sensors manufacturer.
This kind of measurement is VERY limited (remember air is isolant, inhomogeneous environment, I walked around, sensors are not even at same place), but better than nothing:
Here is my quick test (cold start).

Relative room Humidity is around 44%

After start (2nd try, 1st was 2minutes before and I failed to read data in EUCW = on/off EUC+phone):

• Room sensor:  25.8°C
• Motor/Batt sensor: 25.3°C
• Heatsink sensor: 25.5°C
• Motor EUCW: 17°C
• Batt EUCW: 28°C
• Temperature (PCB?) EUCW: 18°C

15minutes later (parking position, no balancing, lights off, BT to EUCW active):

• Room sensor:  25.8°C
• Motor/Batt sensor: 25.6°C
• Heatsink sensor: 26.5°C
• Motor EUCW: 17°C
• Batt EUCW: 30°C
• Temperature (PCB?) EUCW: 19°C

Result: Motor temperature sensor and "Temperature" (is it PCB?, i dont know) lies during cold start period.

 

 

Thanks! That is quite consistent reading. 

[Miko.cz]

56 minutes ago, Paul g said:

Thanks! That is quite consistent reading. 

Yes, under given circumstances KS was proven to be lying (at cold start with my piece). This is not about only some tolerance.
Looking forward to hear others, 8°C difference can be visible with almost any home cheap thermometer too.

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, Miko.cz said:

Yes, under given circumstances KS was proven to be lying (at cold start with my piece). This is not about only some tolerance.

Just for clarification - I'd assume the cold start is no start atter storing in an about 

1 hour ago, Miko.cz said:

8°C

cooler place? The EUC was sitting at the ambient temperature for hours before?

[Miko.cz]

53 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Just for clarification - I'd assume the cold start is no start atter storing in an about 

cooler place? The EUC was sitting at the ambient temperature for hours before?

EUC was in that place switched off and without charging since yesterday (12+h). Ambient temperature was around 25°C here (test done in 11:30, no night effect possible).
Lower temperature here was only in my fridge

[Rawnei]

Went up this hill today, it's quite long, steep and uneven terrain, had gone up a kinder but very rocky hill just moments before so things were already a little more heated.

Motor temperature went up 38c, from 74c to 112c, board temperature when up by 15c from 33c to 48c, wheel never complained, motor didn't grunt, no beeps.

Also hit 69.4kmh GPS speed (according to EUC World), wheel reported speed at that moment was 73.4kmh.

Tour: https://euc.world/tour/612273410818111

Edited July 31, 2022 by Rawnei
Added link to the tour

[supercurio]

31 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Went up this hill today, it's quite long, steep and uneven terrain, had gone up a kinder but very rocky hill just moments before so things were already a little more heated.

Motor temperature went up 38c, from 74c to 112c, board temperature when up by 15c from 33c to 48c, wheel never complained, motor didn't grunt, no beeps.

Nice! That's why the discussion on accuracy of the motor temperature reading is pretty relevant.
112 ℃ is hot. I wonder if the side covers or rim would feel warm or hot to the touch then. Maybe they didn't have time to serve as heatsink.

It would be most useful to have a "magnet temperature" reading, but that's not exactly easy to implement. Hot motor coils is not too bad, but too hot magnets and they won't be magnets anymore.

I guess that touching the rim might be a good test then as it should reflect the magnets temperature.

31 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Also hit 69.4kmh GPS speed (according to EUC World), wheel reported speed at that moment was 73.4kmh.

Tour: https://euc.world/tour/612273410818111

Depending if it was beeping or not, that makes the S22 a faster wheel than both Sherman Max and Sherman OG!
Thanks for sharing the tour.

Edited July 31, 2022 by supercurio

[supercurio]

41 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Also hit 69.4kmh GPS speed (according to EUC World), wheel reported speed at that moment was 73.4kmh.
Tour: https://euc.world/tour/612273410818111

Also, looking at the max speed, it was achieved with the voltage dropping down to 114V, it's 3.8V per cell.
After riding 20km, not too bad.

Edited July 31, 2022 by supercurio

[enaon]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

Motor temperature went up 38c, from 74c to 112c, board temperature when up by 15c from 33c to 48c, wheel never complained, motor didn't grunt, no beeps.

 

nice info, my comments on the motor temp being the same as main(mosfets/heatsink) temp were a mistake, I had an error in my tests, I can see the correct motor temp now on the watch. 

so it looks that on KS, the Motor temp is as importand, or maybe more importand to monitor than mosfets temp. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by enaon

[Miko.cz]

Thanks everyone for sharing experience. Once I will be able to do a harder ride (Im afraid month or so), I will add mine values for comparation.
Here is my today learning ride. Tons of ride on garage roof (training balance, precision, turn radius, minimal speed, start/stop, mini jumps a pot holes...) and very short trip later, ankle hurst so I returned.
About 18km with only 10% battery drain :)) (spoiler: slow avg speed, only 12Wh/km usage. So its not normal usage)

Edited July 31, 2022 by Miko.cz
typo

[supercurio]

Alexander Vodnev, the creator of the S22 sliders alternative based on rollers will be in Amsterdam for a few days, he's looking to meet riders there. If anybody is interested you can reach him on Telegram! From here

https://t.me/s20eagle/15950

Then he'll also come to Stockholm and we'll meet, as well as be able to compare with a stock S22 😁

[supercurio]

I received my S22 unit this morning!
Planning to complete a pull force test with firmware 2.21 (main) 2.08 (BMS), then 2.23 (main)

I read reports of stronger acceleration with the 2.23, so let's see if it can be measured.
I'm terrified burning the board tho.
But at the same time with how I plan to use it for (hardcore off-road, climbing, skatepark) it's safer for my person to test the wheel first. Otherwise I'll be left stranded in the middle of nowhere at some point.

Edited August 1, 2022 by supercurio

[techyiam]

4 minutes ago, supercurio said:

I read reports of stronger acceleration with the 2.23, so let's see if it can be measured.
I'm terrified burning the board tho.

If it were me, I would enjoy your new wheels first.

[supercurio]

Understandable @techyiam 🙏 It also means that no wheel would ever get measured (it was the same dilemma with the V12 stress tests)

Edited August 1, 2022 by supercurio

[Miko.cz]

6 minutes ago, supercurio said:

I received my S22 unit this morning!
Planning to complete a pull force test with firmware 2.21 (main) 2.08 (BMS), then 2.23 (main)

I read reports of stronger acceleration with the 2.23, so let's see if it can be measured.
I'm terrified burning the board tho.
But at the same time with how I plan to use it for (hardcore off-road, climbing, skatepark) it's safer for my person to test the wheel first. Otherwise I'll be left stranded in the middle of nowhere at some point.

Congratulation! Take care mate and dont forget to check BMS fw (2d ago was actual 2.10) too after flashing main, not like me
I like the sound of accelerating (still limited by me) + absolute no strange sounds like on demo pieces.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, supercurio said:

Understandable @techyiam 🙏 It also means that no wheel would ever get measured (it was the same dilemma with the V12 stress tests)

Why is that? I didn't say not to test. I said, enjoy first. It is quite odd that I need to be one doing the quoting. See below.

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

If it were me, I would enjoy your new wheels first.

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by techyiam

[enaon]

35 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Understandable @techyiam 🙏 It also means that no wheel would ever get measured (it was the same dilemma with the V12 stress tests)

go for it, for science 

100euro from me if something goes wrong. Thank you for your attitude. 

[Rawnei]

Took wheel apart today to apply plastidip on motor cable (to protect from rust), clean sliding mechanism and apply PTFE and install dirt protectors for sliding mechanism instead of the rubber stoppings, taking a pause before assembling again so have not yet tested it.

The wheel is pretty easy to service, there are some tricks to get the motor out easily, some screws are still non-stainless and impossible to remove, like the suspension link screws won't loosen at all (luckily you don't need to do that to remove motor), I broke one of the screws holding one of the four bars for the sliding mechanism in place but luckily I had a screw removal drill bit and got it out, went and bought stainless one and replaced all of those.

So basically KS hasn't changed the screws like they promised e-rides, tsk tsk, the sliding mechanism is full of some kind of heavy grease that really attracts dirt, one of the rubber stoppers broke off during disassembly much like ecodrift, it was basically stuck in place had to use a screwdriver to force it out.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Rawnei

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, Rawnei said:

So basically KS hasn't changed the screws like they promised e-rides, tsk tsk, the sliding mechanism is full of some kind of heavy grease that really attracts dirt.

Sorry to hear that. I am losing faith in Kingsong more and more. With all the complaints and testimonies online, and they continue to apply sticky grease on the sliders. 

Edited August 1, 2022 by techyiam

[Rawnei]

Wheel assembled again and it's alive!

Initial impression suspension feels more plush, cleaned out sliders from KS grease, sprayed PTFE in there instead, removed the rubber stoppers, installed slider protectors with their own stoppers, put plastidip on the motor-cable to prevent rust, switched slider screws to stainless (will switch more screws later).

Aside from stupid things screws not coming out it was a pleasure to work with this wheel, very easy, it was a bit tricky to get the motor in together with the custom slider protectors however as those need to be carefully aligned 4 of them at the same time then the sliders 🙄, luckily I had a box with just the right dimensions that I could rest the motor on top of for the procedure or otherwise I don't know how I would have done it.

Will go out and test-ride later tonight!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1djfTP5kFgtXEUJKxXelKwwkhl7Hj2uK5/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dri8wEL-m7-dN5rh6VOCFIOTBN2k8emk/view?usp=sharing

 

[Rawnei]

Good news: Suspension feels a lot more responsive and plush now, very very noticeable change.

Though something is loose, sometimes when motor vibrates something on the wheel is ausing an awful noise, suspect it has to do with the screws I replaced, maybe didn't tighten enough? Maybe something misaligned? Will investigate tomorrow, taking it apart again will be super easy now.

[Guilherme]

Hi 

I just unboxed my S22 ... and when I turned on: EEROR 27 !!!

AND in the app:BMS get no data....

[Julian-NZ]

3 hours ago, Guilherme said:

Hi 

I just unboxed my S22 ... and when I turned on: EEROR 27 !!!

AND in the app:BMS get no data....

Noooooooo! 
Still waiting for mine! 
I hope it doesn't have the same problems.