Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[enaon]

4 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Sure. A new concept. Part-time QC.

this is how I deal with KS. I look at the serial, see the manufactured date and batch number. Then sit back, and imagine that this day it happened that the QC guy was around, and feel lucky. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by enaon

[Paul g]

5 minutes ago, enaon said:

I think I have lost you, am not sure if you are comparing the s18 or the s22 to the max, and why

Comparing the S22 with the Max. Why? Because I badly need a wheel  😭

[enaon]

6 minutes ago, Paul g said:

Comparing the S22 with the Max. Why? Because I badly need a wheel  😭

get the s22 if you can, if you don't like it you can sell it to me 

I am joking, they are common in that they both roll, other that this they do not compare well, both will be fun. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by enaon

[Paul g]

2 minutes ago, enaon said:

get the s22 if you can, if you don't like it you can sell it to me 

I have a lemon V12  😂  for selling first . Interested? 

[enaon]

1 minute ago, Paul g said:

I have a lemon V12  😂  for selling first . Interested? 

I  am a suspension junkie. 

[techyiam]

3 minutes ago, Paul g said:

I have a lemon V12  😂  for selling first . Interested? 

Don't you have just early batch issues, pedal bolts, and driver board?

[Paul g]

Just now, techyiam said:

Don't you have just early batch issues, pedal bolts, and driver board?

Board issues. Isn’t that enough? What do you mean “just” ??

[enaon]

1 minute ago, Paul g said:

Board issues. Isn’t that enough? What do you mean “just” ??

it is an opportunity to make use of the protection gear, don't let it go to waste.  

[Paul g]

20 minutes ago, enaon said:

it is an opportunity to make use of the protection gear, don't let it go to waste.  

You are funny 😄 .  

Well I promised my self when I get back to UK I’ll change the board with the new black one. The bad incidents reported on this forum made me pause that. Even so I plan to buy an other wheel because it is depression inducing to have only one wheel and to have constant issues with it. 

QC related: I noticed on the black V12 board some scratches on the FETs. At first I thought InMotion put used FETs on the new boards, but after some pondering, maybe it was QC checked and then the paste cleaned off mosfets.

edit: this is a picture of the actual board they sent me as replacement

Edited July 26, 2022 by Paul g
add stuff

[techyiam]

5 minutes ago, Paul g said:

Board issues. Isn’t that enough? What do you mean “just” ??

With any other consumer product, I would say ludicrous. However, having been exposed to the EUC World, I am forced to face the fact that that's how things are because many are willing to buy early batches with serious flaws. Let see, were, 16X, S18, EX, V11, Sherman, Commander, flawless? Not even close. 

[Paul g]

Just now, techyiam said:

With any other consumer product, I would say ludicrous. However, having been exposed to the EUC World, I am forced to face the fact that that's how things are because many are willing to buy early batches with serious flaws. Let see, were, 16X, S18, EX, V11, Sherman, Commander, flawless? Not even close. 

 I was fooled by InMotion lies “ the most safe EUC “ hype! Rinse and repeat:  “The safest EUC on the market! We present you : V13 !”

[techyiam]

11 minutes ago, Paul g said:

QC related: I noticed on the black V12 board some scratches on the FETs. At first I thought InMotion put used FETs on the new boards, but after some pondering, maybe it was QC checked and then the pastel cleaned off mosfets.

Although the photo is not detailed enough to see clearly, what it does show of the mosfets doesn't look bad. What I am surprised by is that the phase wire leads, along with others are well trimmed. I think you got a later batch than mine.

[Paul g]

Just now, techyiam said:

Although the photo is not detailed enough to see clearly, what it does show of the mosfets doesn't look bad. What I am surprised by is that the phase wire leads, along with others are well trimmed. I think you got a later batch than mine.

Yes, the’re well trimmed. I’m impressed as well. I worked in a factory as well. You have all sorts of workers, some do good job and some give you head-to-wall smashing kind of pain.

[techyiam]

7 minutes ago, Paul g said:

 I was fooled by InMotion lies “ the most safe EUC “ hype! Rinse and repeat:  “The safest EUC on the market! We present you : V13 !”

Which early batch wheel is better?

Now that the dust has settled, the V12 is a very good wheel, IMO.

The V13 may be as well. But it is way too early to tell.

What I don't understand is your misunderstanding of early batch wheels. EVERY early batch wheel will have issues, period. Why are you still expecting something different. 

People needs to stop buying early batch wheels if they can't handle the fallout. 

[Paul g]

Just now, techyiam said:

What I don't understand is your misunderstanding of early batch wheels. EVERY early batch wheel will have issues, period. Why are you still expecting something different. 

People needs to stop buying early batch wheels if they can't handle the fallout. 

Literally no EUC experience before the V12  👶🍼

[techyiam]

14 minutes ago, Paul g said:

Literally no EUC experience before the V12  👶🍼

No wonder. That would suck. Sorry to hear that you bought an early batch wheel for learning. That would have ruined your experience. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by techyiam

[Tawpie]

4 hours ago, supercurio said:

In the end, his motor vibrates loudly near 0 RPM. I would not ride it either.

Sounds like the spring to me (needs a bit more preload), but it's a video so difficult to tell. Maybe this has been suggested in the comments already, I'm too lazy to look.

An interesting tidbit about QC... back in the day when Xerox was circling the drain (remember them, the copier company?) because their copiers were garbage, the very first thing the expert they brought in to fix things did was... eliminate the QC department. The theory: final QC is a crutch that absolves individual line workers from responsibility to do their job right. QC will catch it, right? If the checking is done at the next workstation (each worker examines each incoming work piece to ensure the steps performed at the previous station are done correctly) and rejected right then and there, every individual worker will have more immediate feedback about their contribution to overall machine build. Add TPC concepts and it's called lean manufacturing, six sigma and all that. It worked, Xerox machines were vastly better built as a result, but it was too late for the business—customers discovered they had viable options for considerably less money.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Tawpie

[Paul g]

It was great for 12 or so days of actual use 🥲😁

[Paul g]

3 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Sounds like the spring to me (needs a bit more preload), but it's a video so difficult to tell. Maybe this has been suggested in the comments already, I'm too lazy to look.

An interesting tidbit about QC... back in the day when Xerox was circling the drain (remember them, the copier company?) because their copiers were garbage, the very first thing the expert they brought in to fix things did was... eliminate the QC department. The theory: final QC is a crutch that absolves individual line workers from responsibility to do their job right. QC will catch it, right? If the checking is done at the next workstation (each worker examines each incoming work piece to ensure the steps performed at the previous station are done correctly) and rejected right then and there, every individual worker will have more immediate feedback about their contribution to overall machine build. Add TPC concepts and it's called lean manufacturing, six sigma and all that. It worked, Xerox machines were vastly better built as a result, but it was too late for the business—customers discovered they had viable options for considerably less money.

Interesting. Obviously QC doesn’t work if it doesn’t provide immediate feedback at the individual level. What were they thinking 🤔 ?

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Sheesh, getting mine this week,  a bit nervous, hope it's not a dud after all this waiting!

Knock on wood, turn around three time, fondle the talisman, seek the favor of your deity of choice... the local wheels have all been good except for one that has a bad charger. Been put through the wringer too, no Toronto-like incidents.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Tawpie

[Rawnei]

So my S22 arrived today!

First ride: overall super nice impressions, tire feels great for me coming from the Kenda 262 very similar feeling, I ran it at 38psi which is 8psi higher than I ride on Sherman Max and it felt good 👍 no idea why so many people are complaining about it, it feels nimble to me and has a behavior I am already used to. Plan on pumping it up to 40 and hopefully will still feel nice and give me a great safety margin for the rim combined with suspension.

Suspension feels good, not as cushy as say V11 but on big roots or curbs you can feel the difference, I'm a few kgs below 100kg geared up so stock spring feels fine for me, I have not done skatepark jumping yet that is on my list but going down stairs felt good, jumping in the skatepark will be by benchmark for what kind of spring I need (stay on 750 or go softer). The linkage was at highest setting from factory, it's really tall to get on, taller than V11 but once riding it felt very good to me, I didn't feel any disadvantage being so high up it felt good and the pedal clearance is welcomed for technical off road.

Stock pads I tried them for a while but nah, they are too wide and felt awkward I couldn't set them up as I like so eventually I switched to my trusty Clark Pads which immediately felt much better, the Clark pads kinda fit but stick out a bit forward or back depending on your personal setup, for me in it's in the back meaning the parts to support braking is compromised, so they need some kind of support where they stick out, not necessarily a whole plate but small 3D printed block or yoga block or whatever leaning against the battery case and attached with Velcro against the pads that already has Velcro should be more than sufficient I recon.

Torque, I've no issue with it so far, did some light off road, went up the half pipe in the skatepark where steepest part of is 35 degrees which is quite steep and tall, I was worried it would fail and I would drop the wheel before doing the climb but it went up without a problem which felt great, test passed 🥳, I need to test more technical off road but torque feels good enough so far.

Pedals feels good, spikes are good, stock position feels good, nothing to complain about, feel absolutely no need to switch them around to a more forward position, fits me really good as is.

Seat is the one negative, as a seated rider it doesn't feel super good, you sit too far forward and don't get too much support, specially coming from a Shermax with Luna seat it feels like I was back on a circus wheel, I have some ideas though how to improve it so might become a better experience with time.

Overall very nice and positive first ride 👍👍

I have a bunch of ideas for 3D printed parts (which I will freely share) for this little sucker so stay tuned.

[jrhz06]

Check your suspension links for bolt tightness and clearance to tire. When mine is full up for max pedal clearance I don’t even have 1mm clearance to the tire. I run mine one notch down from full up and lots of clearance to tire.

[Rawnei]

More riding today damn this is a fun wheel!

Had so much fun playing around, jumping things, bonking things, going fast it feels zippy. Stairs are so cushy now and going fast off road is fun!

Did a bunch of jumps in the skatepark and I think the 750lb spring is suitable for my weight, I can really send it and get a nice cushy landing even if I overshoot.

Pumped tire up to 40PSI and behaviour is great, feels both stable and nimble.

Liking this wheel more and more and can't really relate to all the negative critique that I've heard, this is a great wheel.

BTW I was mistaken about the linkage being at the highest setting from the factory, double checked today and it's in the middle, seems they learned from the pre production wheels.

[Brendan "nog3" Halliday]

7 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

More riding today damn this is a fun wheel!

Had so much fun playing around, jumping things, bonking things, going fast it feels zippy. Stairs are so cushy now and going fast off road is fun!

Did a bunch of jumps in the skatepark and I think the 750lb spring is suitable for my weight, I can really send it and get a nice cushy landing even if I overshoot.

Pumped tire up to 40PSI and behaviour is great, feels both stable and nimble.

Liking this wheel more and more and can't really relate to all the negative critique that I've heard, this is a great wheel.

BTW I was mistaken about the linkage being at the highest setting from the factory, double checked today and it's in the middle, seems they learned from the pre production wheels.

The units we recieved and the units I had seen in the wild were all shipped in the middle as well. Glad you are enjoying the S22.

[Julian-NZ]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

More riding today damn this is a fun wheel!

Had so much fun playing around, jumping things, bonking things, going fast it feels zippy. Stairs are so cushy now and going fast off road is fun!

Did a bunch of jumps in the skatepark and I think the 750lb spring is suitable for my weight, I can really send it and get a nice cushy landing even if I overshoot.

Pumped tire up to 40PSI and behaviour is great, feels both stable and nimble.

Liking this wheel more and more and can't really relate to all the negative critique that I've heard, this is a great wheel.

BTW I was mistaken about the linkage being at the highest setting from the factory, double checked today and it's in the middle, seems they learned from the pre production wheels.

How much do you weigh?
I'm still waiting for mine to arrive.