King Song S18 Discussion

[onizukagto]

to be honest, i don't really see the problem of Kingsong changing the stock shock model.

 

I mean, one of the appealing aspects of this unit was the fact that the user could swap out the shock with their own, and considering that the riders who are drawn to the S18, this is the main appeal.

Sure, its kind of a negative for those who want the complete package, but honestly kingsong is never the type of unit thart you simply leave everything to stock.

[.....]

7 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

to be honest, i don't really see the problem of Kingsong changing the stock shock model.

 

I mean, one of the appealing aspects of this unit was the fact that the user could swap out the shock with their own, and considering that the riders who are drawn to the S18, this is the main appeal.

Sure, its kind of a negative for those who want the complete package, but honestly kingsong is never the type of unit thart you simply leave everything to stock.

It's less of a big deal, IF they changed it to simply save money from the other shock. My biggest worry is that the reason they changed it is because of clearance issue? If this is true, then what clearance issues will I find in the future, as I swap to a better shock? It just seems awfully late in the game, to revise yet ANOTHER shock. Its almost like a bait and switch. Advertise it with a certain spec, then change it again and again, after taking preorders. MOST of the time, we accept minor changes that improve the product. I'm not sure that going from a fox to a dual valve generic THEN to a single valve generic, aligns with the 'minor adjustment to improve the product".  Was the shock change simply a decision based on $$ or availability, or was it a clearance issue? If cutting costs to meet the selected price point is the issue, I understand and would rather it be on the shock (while allowing room for me to invest in another), than some non user replaceable part. Ideally, I would have been priced correctly, so these decisions havent as much influence on final product.

Edited June 26, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[FullTilt]

2 hours ago, xorbe said:

WAIT UP: according to a post on reddit, the shock was downgraded because that one doesn't touch the shell.  If that's true, you won't be upgrading shocks.

Being that the S18's main advantage is the promise of superior suspension, this could prove disastrous. Surely KS can't be serious about leaving no path to at least upgrade.

On 6/16/2020 at 10:13 PM, FullTilt said:

That might explain it. So, if they now tweak the design for the cheaper shock, how upgradeable would it then be to the Fox shock (or others)? Hope they'll think it through.

I've been waiting to get clarity on what KS is doing to address the 36RC rubbing issue. If reports are accurate, my guess is that rather than re/mold/design the shell (originally meant for Fox shock) to accomodate the 36RC (and likely others that take up more space), they decided to find a shock that fits - the 38RC. This might mean that you could still upgrade to Fox (which is more $$), but not the 36RC and others that take up similar space. If this is the case, and the 38RC's air system doesn't perform as well, KS effectively passed on the cost of a true solution to customers. Smart or cunning depending on how you look at it.

[fbhb]

Here is a side by side comparison of the Two DNM shocks from an image posted on the King Song Telegram page.  The AO-38RC would most definitely offer more clearance if the image of each shock is to scale!  I too am trying to find out as much as possible on this shock change, as it could have a big impact on what the S18 is all about, possibly/hopefully for the better!!! 

One thing that is very obvious however, the DNM AOY-36RC is definitely not on the DNM website and vary scarce to buy online, often showing as "out of stock" or "discontinued".  Alternatively, a search for the AOY-36RC actually leads you to a listing for the AO-38RC so it must be the replacement model in DNM's current line-up.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by fbhb

[Jon Stern]

Frankly I'm shocked by these changes!

(See what I did there?)

Edited June 26, 2020 by Jon Stern

[onizukagto]

43 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Its almost like a bait and switch. Advertise it with a certain spec, then change it again and again, after taking preorders. MOST of the time, we accept minor changes that improve the product. I'm not sure that going from a fox to a dual valve generic THEN to a single valve generic, aligns with the 'minor adjustment to improve the product".  Was the shock change simply a decision based on $$ or availability, or was it a clearance issue? If cutting costs to meet the selected price point is the issue

You only have to see the actions kingsong took with the 1st batch of 16X and it will answer all your questions.

All riders of that batch became testers, the unit had quality and bugs that the users had to fix themselves. This is a known trait of Knigsong and while everyone complains about it, riders who got the 1st batch of units accept this. 

So i don't think you should be surprised if they do the same thing this time, KingSong does what KingSong does, you can complain or say whatever you want, but Kingsong isn't going to respond or care what you think.

So just accept the reality and be pleasantly surprised if they do anything different. haha 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by onizukagto

[Hansolo]

Not from me... A french review

English subtitles availables

 

 

[Steven89]

Can't find any photos of the black version. I mean... not the prototype..the real one 

How much difficoult do you think it will be to change the shock? 

[ggldkm]

2 hours ago, Hansolo said:

Not from me... A french review

English subtitles availables

 

 

As far as I understand this wheel is absolutely useless for me because of inconvenient trolley handle.. Sad. This wheel is not for going to buy a beer))

[EUChristian]

2 hours ago, Steven89 said:

Can't find any photos of the black version. I mean... not the prototype..the real one 

How much difficoult do you think it will be to change the shock? 

The real one evidently won’t exist until the day it ships to us. No one has even seen a real one. 

[EUChristian]

4 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

It's less of a big deal, IF they changed it to simply save money from the other shock. My biggest worry is that the reason they changed it is because of clearance issue? If this is true, then what clearance issues will I find in the future, as I swap to a better shock? It just seems awfully late in the game, to revise yet ANOTHER shock. Its almost like a bait and switch. Advertise it with a certain spec, then change it again and again, after taking preorders. MOST of the time, we accept minor changes that improve the product. I'm not sure that going from a fox to a dual valve generic THEN to a single valve generic, aligns with the 'minor adjustment to improve the product".  Was the shock change simply a decision based on $$ or availability, or was it a clearance issue? If cutting costs to meet the selected price point is the issue, I understand and would rather it be on the shock (while allowing room for me to invest in another), than some non user replaceable part. Ideally, I would have been priced correctly, so these decisions havent as much influence on final product.

Every update I lose more confidence. Bait and switch is a strong phrase but yes it definitely feels more and more applicable here. 
 

V11 thread - 2200w motor to replace the 2000W one...ie they are getting upgrades while we get downgrades!  

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, EUChristian said:

they are getting upgrades while we get downgrades!  

Don’t worry, “we” gladly welcome “you“ to join “us” instead! 

[FreeRide]

While I'm not buying this first release of the S18, I still think it is going to be a great wheel. That said no wheel is for everyone (at least not yet).

[ggldkm]

Finally, I bought KS-16X, I don’t want to be a beta tester of mechanisms of dubious reliability and resistance to aggressive environment )) In addition, the S18 trolley handle is awful. Over time, the battery will be -20%, and another -20% in winter, and this is too much, too high pedals will destabilize at speed, and if you lower them, the sense of suspension will be decreased, and issues of first revisions are also almost guaranteed. In general, the disadvantages were outweighed) I also do not see the urgent need for a suspension for me because I drive on asphalt 97% of the time. Just need to wait 2-3 years and we will see something sufficiently developed to buy.

Edited June 28, 2020 by ggldkm

[FreeRide]

4 hours ago, ggldkm said:

Finely, I bought KS-18XXL, I don’t want to be a beta tester of mechanisms of dubious reliability and resistance to aggressive environment )) In addition, the S18 trolley handle is awful. Over time, the battery will be -20%, and another -20% in winter, and this is too much, too high pedals will destabilize at speed, and if you lower them, the sense of suspension will be decreased, and issues of first revisions are also almost guaranteed. In general, the disadvantages were outweighed) I also do not see the urgent need for a suspension for me because I drive on asphalt 97% of the time. Just need to wait 2-3 years and we will see something sufficiently developed to buy.

At the rate these things change, with-in 2 years I think we will see a good level of advancement in the suspension models.  I can understand though not waiting until then.

[Dogtaoist]

11 hours ago, FreeRide said:

While I'm not buying this first release of the S18, I still think it is going to be a great wheel. That said no wheel is for everyone (at least not yet).

This will be my first wheel! Looking forward to sharing my experience. 

[jmsjms]

17 hours ago, Dogtaoist said:

This will be my first wheel! Looking forward to sharing my experience. 

My first wheel too. My main worry is the wobble. I am hoping they fix that issue that I watched on some of the reviews. My second worry is the shock setup. Anything that deals with me having to do manual work on the wheel doesn't digest well with me. I am not mechanically savvy... nor interested in becoming one.

[EUChristian]

7 minutes ago, jmsjms said:

My first wheel too. My main worry is the wobble. I am hoping they fix that issue that I watched on some of the reviews. My second worry is the shock setup. Anything that deals with me having to do manual work on the wheel doesn't digest well with me. I am not mechanically savvy... nor interested in becoming one.

You should be able to set it and forget it. Not sure if you have to refill it so often?  Set to medium setting and it should tackle everything fine. 

[mrelwood]

1 minute ago, EUChristian said:

You should be able to set it and forget it. Not sure if you have to refill it so often?  Set to medium setting and it should tackle everything fine. 

Might work, for medium weight riders only... Although it’s inevitable that many will do just that. If even that.

Inmotion mentioned that the pressure of the air shocks should be checked once a month. Not sure if it applies to S18 style (rear) shocks as well.

[.....]

6 hours ago, jmsjms said:

My first wheel too. My main worry is the wobble. I am hoping they fix that issue that I watched on some of the reviews. My second worry is the shock setup. Anything that deals with me having to do manual work on the wheel doesn't digest well with me. I am not mechanically savvy... nor interested in becoming one.

It seems that you are buying into the EXACT things you are worrying about. Why not buy any number of other proven wheels that have NONE of the worries?

Set and forget it is a misnomer when it applied to most things with air in them. Seals will leak down, tires will allow air to escape thru the rubber. A suspension wheel will DEFINITELY be more to worry about and maintain. Personally, for a first wheel for someone who doesnt want the OBVIOUS maintenance and calibrating needed on a suspension wheel: look to proven hard tail designs that are as reliable and 'set and forget' as possible. Why spend more for a suspension that you care not to maintain, while losing range, gaining weight and giving up a great trolley system of previous wheels? Is it because it just LOOKS cool? Being a first wheel, how can a person possibly assume the NEED for a suspension at all? Higher center of gravity, known wobbles, its almost like the s18 is completely NOT a learner or first wheel.

Edited June 28, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[B08AH]

On 6/26/2020 at 9:36 AM, Zwheeler said:

Well,

according to my research the AO-38RC *does indeed* have a negative chamber. Just download the manual from AO-38RC page https://www.dnmshock.com/products.php?func=p_detail&p_id=18&pc_parent=13 and the negative chamber is mentioned there.

On a Amazon page about DNM AOY-38RC https://www.amazon.com/DNM-AOY-38RC-Mountain-Lockout-165x35mm/dp/B07KK381HF they say "The negative air valve could possibly touch some frames, so DNM developed the new 38RC shock without negative air valve" I guess that means, that even if the valve is missing, the chamber is still there

just my 2 cents

-Z-

too late, everyone cancelled their preorders already

[.....]

2 hours ago, B08AH said:

too late, everyone cancelled their preorders already

Or resigned to eating the cost of another type of shock shortly after arrival... 

[Ben Kim]

55 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Or resigned to eating the cost of another type of shock shortly after arrival... 

i think everyone's enthusiasm for the S18 is at an all time low.  I'm also considering cancelling my preorder.  

[Jon Stern]

6 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

i think everyone's enthusiasm for the S18 is at an all time low.  I'm also considering cancelling my preorder.  

I didn't even pre-order the S18, but I'm so disappointed that I'm thinking of not pre-ordering the V11 instead.

[.....]

1 hour ago, Ben Kim said:

i think everyone's enthusiasm for the S18 is at an all time low.  I'm also considering cancelling my preorder.  

I preordered mine as a birthday gift to myself... of course my birthday just came and went (this year will be perfect as I am at the age that answers everything). The delays in shipping kinda suck. Of course, the redesign and changes may be half improvement, half not. I am always looking for a reason to be angry, so I just ignore myself a lot. I fell in LOVE with the idea of a suspension wheel when I saw them. I also recognize that if its implemented correctly, a suspension wheel will be my off road monster. For now there is only 2 choices... the v11 or the sks18(still trying to make the name stick). My preference for the suspension geometry is leaving just ONE choice...the sks18. Now that I am down to one choice, KS is getting the brunt of my obsession. I could always wait and buy the next idea, but I'd imagine my roller coaster of enthusiasm would just start over. I am tiring myself somehow, so we DO NOT want me to start over. I think we just all have such high hopes and somewhat high expectations. We should ALL know better, but hope springs eternal and surely does drive the market.  Mine's still on preorder, as it was my freaking birthday present damnit, and if it aint the s18, I'm not sure theres ANY wheels out right now that decimate my 18L for my current compromises and uses. The good news about buying a wheel that winds up NOT meeting expectations: you get to beat its ass and modify it since you don't give a shit and recognize its not quite a keeper in its current factory condition. I still maintain that there's a chance the sks18 and v11 will meet our expectations of ride quality and a lot of us will be content......until the next wheel drops its knickers for us to drool on. The all time low may be happening EVERYTIME we hear of another revision that isnt really an upgrade. More weight, cheaper shock, loose padding. Good news is that its seemingly not made of sugar cubes and I've seen it being rinsed off. Adjustable pedals aint too shabby. I view an euc as a disposable item and if i couldnt afford to lose the money, I wouldnt even play.  Cmon guys, we need someone here with a positive outlook, to offset most of the rest of us. *I see the older dual valve shock on ebay for $80 new. As long as we can confirm that it was cost/availability and not format size, i guess the factory shock gives me a good excuse to buy another fancy farkle. From what i can tell about mtb shocks... they range from $80-1000. Sounds like a fun thing to start learning about. Hopefully its similar to shocks I've already researched a little. My OTHER bday present (3d printer), may come in VERY handy.... see, hope springs eternal.

Edited June 28, 2020 by ShanesPlanet