King Song S18 Discussion

[Shield]

5 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

I cancelled my preorder.

Upon reflection I realized a simple fact. I’m too poor to beta test a $2000 item, regardless of my intense desire to have said item and my belief that I’ll get exactly what I’m paying for. This  mismanagement of sending out wheels that are preproduction to reviewers and then stating “Don’t you worry we have a fix for everything” is a bit unbelievable at face value. The risk is too high and to sit and wait to see what it really is upon release costs me $0. 
 

if you have the money the risk it may certainly worth it. But I cannot risk wobble/body panel destruction/shock clearance on a primary wheel as I will sell my KS16 to partially fund. 
 

I will wait to see how this all pans out and go from there. 

This mirrors my situation, thoughts and concerns exactly. 

[Zopper]

16 hours ago, jmsjms said:

But what about the wobble: Is that issue being worked on? Too many posts here and I can't go through all of them to see if the company's been working to fix this issue before shipping out the models. As a first time user it worries me because I will be taking this thing on the road with car traffic.... If they can't fix it, then I am also considering canceling the preorder, and going another route with a different wheel.

From a personal experience (and a few people around me), I think that a small wheel like V5F or S1 is a much better option for a beginner.  You will crash it. That’s inevitable.

And the small, light, compact and cheap wheel has a much smaller risk of hurting you or damaging itself/something around, than one of those  big wheels that weights thrice as much. If you are not afraid about the wheel getting some road rash, you will ride more confidently and learn faster.

A friend who is about 220 lbs/over 6 feet is just upgrading from the tiny Ninebot S1 (which he bought as a third hand wheel for about $120 and plans so sell it to another friend once he has his new wheel). So it’s possible even if you are a big guy. 

This way, you can start riding sooner and by the time you will decide to buy a big wheel, the S18 will be out already and perhaps with some teething pains fixed.

[stephen]

Speedyfeet 250 mile review

 

[stephen]

In Ian's video he also mentions the wobbles he's an experienced rider to maybe adjusting the pedal height will fix that, them plastic parts are a bit delicate and they just from it taking forward, wouldn't be too good in a big crash , the bit that chipped off is there a battery under there?, good review tbh very honest

This is a link to the new shock KS is using

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by stephen

[Jon Stern]

33 minutes ago, stephen said:

Speedyfeet 250 mile review

250km, not miles!

[stephen]

3 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

250km, not miles!

Lol well he's actually done 400 km but who cares it's a review and we love reviews 😊😊

[tim716]

13 minutes ago, stephen said:

In Ian's video he also mentions the wobbles he's an experienced rider to maybe adjusting the pedal height will fix that, them plastic parts are a bit delicate , the bit that chipped off is there a battery under there?, good review tbh very honest

This is a link to the new shock KS is using

 

IMHO the reason for the wobbling “issue” is the combination of high pedals and little support in the upper area, which allows tilting the wheel between the legs. Thicker pads should solve this, actually I expected KIngSong to make this change.

[fbhb]

4 hours ago, tim716 said:

IMHO the reason for the wobbling “issue” is the combination of high pedals and little support in the upper area, which allows tilting the wheel between the legs. Thicker pads should solve this, actually I expected KIngSong to make this change

King Song has actually stated and conveyed this to @Jason McNeil, that both of those changes (amongst others) will be made before the final production begins.  The pedals are height adjustable, up or down by 2cm and the padding at the top is to increase in thickness from 4mm to 12mm! 

Edited June 29, 2020 by fbhb

[ir_fuel]

Not coming to this forum very often, and therefore having to read a lot of posts at once, over a timeframe of several weeks, it's really interesting to see the emotional rollercoaster this topic has become (I get KS16X flashbacks  ).

I think the main problem is impatience. We've been here countless times with EUC's. If you preorder you never know what you'll get, and if you get it how good it will end up being, as there are always tweaks and updates done to any wheel. I think you should consider your risk aversion factor, take a decision and stick to it. If you are strapped on cash or risk averse just wait until everyone gets their wheels, rides them for a couple of weeks and decide then. We all remember the hype around the Z10? Well look where we are today, you can buy them 600 euro cheaper than at launch, and have one in a couple of days. Hype around the KS16X and all the issues (bluetooth, firmware, tilt, tire, wobble ....). You can buy one today with all the issues sorted.

The really "crazy" ones are the ones that pre-order a batch 1 wheel from Chinese websites. If there are issues you're completely on your own. But that's the risk you take for saving quite a bit of money of course.

 

[AtlasP]

16 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

... (I get KS16X flashbacks  ).

... Hype around the KS16X and all the issues (bluetooth, firmware, tilt, tire, wobble ....). You can buy one today with all the issues sorted.

Some would argue the KS16X never had some of its core issues satisfactorily resolved.

• It still overreports speed and doesn't get anywhere close to its advertised 31 mph.
• It still has a reputation for cutting out as you approach its max speed.
• It still suffers from the bait-and-switch of the firmware change to now start throttling at 50% battery instead of 30% as originally marketed and sold. (Imagine buying a wheel and having it downgraded after you've already taken ownership of it.)

So what we have is a once-reputable company that rushed their previous product to market to try to keep up with a competitor with poor/dangerous results (some of which were never properly resolved), and now all signs (including by at least 4-5 separate reviewers now) point to a repeat of the exact same situation.

Edited June 29, 2020 by AtlasP

[ir_fuel]

Sorry for dragging this thread off-topic, but anyone doing their research on this forum should realise that if speed is your ultimate goal, KS is the wrong brand. I think that even with all the different opinions and preferences people have on this forum, they will all give the same answer to the question "I want a wheel that goes 25+mph sustained, which brand should I buy?".

(KS16X rider myself, first batch with V1.5 mainboard after the first one broke down, max sustained speed I do on my KS16X is about 26mph, as reported by the wheel, no idea how many "real" mph that is).

Edited June 29, 2020 by ir_fuel

[jimjam.nyc]

10 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Sorry for dragging this thread off-topic, but anyone doing their research on this forum should realise that if speed is your ultimate goal, KS is the wrong brand. I think that even with all the different opinions and preferences people have on this forum, they will all give the same answer to the question "I want a wheel that goes 25+mph sustained, which brand should I buy?".

(KS16X rider myself, first batch with V1.5 mainboard after the first one broke down, max sustained speed I do on my KS16X is about 26mph, as reported by the wheel, no idea how many "real" mph that is).

This is just the thing. Anyone discussing this knows if 30mph is too slow for you, move on. 

It's funny that speed is the debated topic on here. If you are offroading, almost all reviews so far said they can actually go faster on this wheel because the suspension allows it. So even though the speed is limited, you can actually push that limit in more situations. Kind of a funny spot to be in.

[tim716]

4 hours ago, fbhb said:

King Song has actually stated and conveyed this to @Jason McNeil, that both of those changes will be made before the final production begins.  The pedals are height adjustable, up or down by 2cm and the padding at the top is to increase in thickness from 4mm to 12mm! 

Yes. This should eliminate the wobbling tendency.

Look here, from 3:01:

You can even see some wobbling there. And you can also see that he rides NOT EVEN TOUCHING the sides of the wheel. This is the recipe for wobbling. This wheel DESPERATELY needs bigger pads.

[stephen]

1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

Not coming to this forum very often, and therefore having to read a lot of posts at once, over a timeframe of several weeks, it's really interesting to see the emotional rollercoaster this topic has become (I get KS16X flashbacks  ).

I think the main problem is impatience. We've been here countless times with EUC's. If you preorder you never know what you'll get, and if you get it how good it will end up being, as there are always tweaks and updates done to any wheel. I think you should consider your risk aversion factor, take a decision and stick to it. If you are strapped on cash or risk averse just wait until everyone gets their wheels, rides them for a couple of weeks and decide then. We all remember the hype around the Z10? Well look where we are today, you can buy them 600 euro cheaper than at launch, and have one in a couple of days. Hype around the KS16X and all the issues (bluetooth, firmware, tilt, tire, wobble ....). You can buy one today with all the issues sorted.

The really "crazy" ones are the ones that pre-order a batch 1 wheel from Chinese websites. If there are issues you're completely on your own. But that's the risk you take for saving quite a bit of money of course.

 

 

1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

Some would argue the KS16X never had some of its core issues satisfactorily resolved.

• It still overreports speed and doesn't get anywhere close to its advertised 31 mph.
• It still has a reputation for cutting out as you approach its max speed.
• It still suffers from the bait-and-switch of the firmware change to now start throttling at 50% battery instead of 30% as originally marketed and sold. (Imagine buying a wheel and having it downgraded after you've already taken ownership of it.)

So what we have is a once-reputable company that rushed their previous product to market to try to keep up with a competitor with poor/dangerous results (some of which were never properly resolved), and now all signs (including by at least 4-5 separate reviewers now) point to a repeat of the exact same situation.

I have the first batch z10 and the first batch 16x never had any problems since they was released , the 16x has a lot of torque and still has at the top end which is somewhat dangerous if you don't take it steady at the top, I've done 30mph for testing but I'd rather stay around 27mph but i don't do that for long periods due to  UK roads ,,,,busy and winding and narrow,,,

Like other say it you want speed buy something else but if your a happy rider at around 20-25mph and 20+ miles is enough then the s18 should be good, there's always people going to push the limits and with 1100wh you'll be soon having to watch your speeds, i can have my batteries last me all day if just general riding about, even on the z10, depends what you use each wheel for 👍

 

[meepmeepmayer]

New @EcoDrift article with updates on the S18 (and V11):

https://www.translatetheweb.com/?from=ru&to=en&dl=de&ref=trb&a=https%3A%2F%2Fecodrift.ru%2F2020%2F06%2F29%2Fnovosti-o-monokolesah-s-podveskoj-muki-ozhidaniya%2F

Some small improvements on the S18.

[fryman]

10 hours ago, stephen said:

In Ian's video he also mentions the wobbles he's an experienced rider to maybe adjusting the pedal height will fix that, them plastic parts are a bit delicate and they just from it taking forward, wouldn't be too good in a big crash , the bit that chipped off is there a battery under there?, good review tbh very honest

This is a link to the new shock KS is using

 

Hey, that jig being used to cut round stock looked cool.

[EUChristian]

10 hours ago, stephen said:

Speedyfeet 250 mile review

 

This is a great review. Notes no major problems except for the front plastic cracking from it hitting the ground. Suspension held up well. Looks like they are under the impression for most a one time setting should be all that is necessary. Tallness is the unit causes it to fly forward if the motor is disengaged. 
 

I like how the Veteran tried to solve resiliency issues with the metal bars (although they put the front light outside of the bars and it cracked off in a review. Sigh). Like a roll cage on a car, that takes the impact and saves the plastic. As these designs morph I think we will see more of that. 
 

 

[meepmeepmayer]

Some posts about the Gotway suspension have been moved:

 

[B08AH]

15 hours ago, tim716 said:

IMHO the reason for the wobbling “issue” is the combination of high pedals and little support in the upper area, which allows tilting the wheel between the legs.

And a sensation of a "different" wheel. Every wheel that I had, there were wobbles first few hundred kilometers. I had wobbling on 16x for like 500km. Now at 3500 mark, I forgot what it even feels like. The wobble feeling will definitely come back with S18. Up until I get used to it.

That's normal.

[B08AH]

 

12 hours ago, AtlasP said:

Some would argue the KS16X never had some of its core issues satisfactorily resolved.

• It still overreports speed and doesn't get anywhere close to its advertised 31 mph.

Some would argue that 16X issues never existed in the first place. And it does not overreport speed. It is quite precise even. I compared it to GPS speed and it is accurate at 35km/h.

Trying so hard to never ride it above that mark, so wont say nothing about cutoff rumors and speed limiting. Just don't care.

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by B08AH

[B08AH]

20 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

if speed is your ultimate goal, KS is the wrong brand.

moreover, you might want to not look into EUCs at all if all you need is speed

Edited June 30, 2020 by B08AH

[AtlasP]

20 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

anyone doing their research on this forum should realise that if speed is your ultimate goal, KS is the wrong brand. I think that even with all the different opinions and preferences people have on this forum, they will all give the same answer to the question "I want a wheel that goes 25+mph sustained, which brand should I buy?".

 

 

 

This is a strawman. Many responsible riders (including several prominent youtubers), without having "speed [as their] primary goal", consider mid-20s mph to be a sweet spot for the form factor, which means an 84v wheel that can hit 31 mph would/should be a totally fine choice (and it is now from _all other manufacturers_--from the 84v MSX/Nikola, to the new V11, and even the Z10).

King Song fans used to take the slower-but-safer attitude, but now they're getting passed by InMotion in speed while InMotion already has the superior safety track record (particularly after the 16X). In a weird way it's like InMotion and King Song are trading places, with the 16X and now possibly S18 both belonging more in the same category as the V10F (low-to-mid-20s only), while the V11 belongs more in the same category with the 84v MSX & Nikola (mid-to-upper-20s).

Edited June 30, 2020 by AtlasP

[B08AH]

14 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

King Song fans used to take the slower-but-safer attitude, but now they're getting passed by InMotion who has the superior safety track record

inmotion superior what now? After V8?

 

i just have to post this again. All you need to know about inmotion suspension. And its safety.

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by B08AH

[Jon Stern]

1 hour ago, B08AH said:

inmotion superior what now? After V8?

 

i just have to post this again. All you need to know about inmotion suspension. And its safety.

 

This difference could be fundamental (given the lower unsprung weight on the S18), but there are many variables here. Speed, suspension chamber pressure, rider weight, and tire pressure.

As for safety, the V11 could be worse in this regard than the S18, but still be better than every other wheel ever made. Sure if this is your number 1 buying reason, if this test is independently verified, then it should seal the deal. But if you're looking for other things, and better safety than every wheel without suspension, the V11 might be the wheel to buy.

This is an extreme test. Hitting a angular speed bump at speed with straight legs isn't typical riding.

Oh, and there are many other factors in safety. Stability, lights, torque, stopping distance, and probably quite a few more.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Jon Stern

[EUChristian]

Speed is more important than safety for many. That is until you take your first fall at 35MPH and listen to the sound of your snapping bones. I won’t disagree that there are a few that go through even that and yearn for more. The rare among us - and the most brave. I’ve learned my lesson. 
 

I agree however that that video is an extreme test that shows one aspect of safety and even with suspension I would still bend my legs slightly on a bump like that. For instance, watching a video on the Veteran I see that braking is incredibly difficult. You sacrifice the weight for stopping power and it would suck to careen into a car at 42mph. There are many aspects to safety. 
 

As a counterpoint I will say however that kuji pads absolutely helps my riding skill and if INMOTION can figure out how to mount them on the V11 they would have a leg up from their current position. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by EUChristian