INMOTION V11 (2020)

[Mark Wilson]

2 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

So you NEED to get 2 wheels with suspension on for the road one for the off road. As much as I love Chooch I cant help getting a little frustrated here, maybe the future will bring a better suspension wheel for road and off road with less errors and difficulties ?

You don't need to get 2 wheels if you want to ride both on road and off road. In my opinion the V11 and S18 are both "jack of all trades" style wheels, both being fairly capable on and off road. I don't know a lot about motorcycles but if I were to compare, I see the S18 as a "dual sport" style (more focused on off roading) and the V11 as an "adventure" style (more focused on comfort). Each of these wheels are a first of their kind and we don't have a lot to compare them to but it seems pretty obvious to me that neither are optimal for any one situation. Though in the future I expect to see more niche offerings for suspension purposefully designed for either on or off road. You can't expect a dual sport/adventure bike to be as fast on the racetrack as a liter bike or as good as a 450 on a motocross track.

[UniVehje]

I still can’t understand this meme about S18 being the off-road wheel and V11 a street wheel. To me there’s nothing in the S18 that says it’s an off-road wheel. All the supposed advantages in the S18 suspension (when assembled properly) are towards high speed riding. Off-road riding is by nature very low speed and at those speeds the unsprung weight or more complicated settings have very little advantage. 

But I still haven’t tested an S18 with a working suspension so my thoughts are based on theory. 

[Mark Wilson]

6 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

I still can’t understand this meme about S18 being the off-road wheel and V11 a street wheel. To me there’s nothing in the S18 that says it’s an off-road wheel. All the supposed advantages in the S18 suspension (when assembled properly) are towards high speed riding. Off-road riding is by nature very low speed and at those speeds the unsprung weight or more complicated settings have very little advantage. 

But I still haven’t tested an S18 with a working suspension so my thoughts are based on theory. 

In my mind the simplest way to judge the "better" off roader would be the one that can go faster over certain terrain. Maybe I think that because going fast is what is fun to me. How would you determine the "better" off roader?

[eve]

17 minutes ago, Mark Wilson said:

In my mind the simplest way to judge the "better" off roader would be the one that can go faster over certain terrain. Maybe I think that because going fast is what is fun to me. How would you determine the "better" off roader?

And how do you judge that? You take V11 to rocky mountain trails and it gets destroyed while S18 will have no problems and you take them to a relatively smooth trail and V11 has no problems speeding trough S18. 

So which one is a better offroader? 

Edited August 30, 2020 by eve

[Mark Wilson]

15 minutes ago, eve said:

And how do you judge that? You take V11 to rocky mountain trails and it gets destroyed while S18 will have no problems and you take them to a relatively smooth trail and V11 has no problems speeding trough S18. 

So which one is a better offroader? 

Unfortunately I don't have any smooth trails around me so when I say off-road I really mean bumpy, narrow singletrack trails because that's what I'm used to riding. So for me and my riding style I think the S18 (assuming that the suspension works correctly) would be the better off-roader. If what you refer to as off-road is smooth, flowy trails then yeah, the V11 might be the better off-roader in that case.

[eve]

There is different levels of bumpy. @Mark Wilson 

So i think people who want a wheel for trails need to choose depending on that.

 

[Llorx]

I guess that also because the S18 has a increasing suspension while the v11 is linear. In the v11 you top-down more than in a S18, so the more bumpy a ride is, the worse the linear suspension feeling is. As you say, depends a lot on the offroad terrain type.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Llorx

[eve]

29 minutes ago, Llorx said:

I guess that also because the S18 has a progressive suspension while the v11 is linear. In the v11 you bottom-out more than on a S18, so the more bumpy a ride is, the worse the linear suspension feeling is. As you say, depends a lot on the offroad terrain type.

Well when the linkage gets fixed the suspension will be better because only the wheel moves and you can put a much better shock on it but V11 is good too. Imo its more of a the position of the shock, weight and shell design.

Edited August 30, 2020 by eve

[UniVehje]

4 hours ago, Mark Wilson said:

In my mind the simplest way to judge the "better" off roader would be the one that can go faster over certain terrain. Maybe I think that because going fast is what is fun to me. How would you determine the "better" off roader?

Speed is one. Or just getting through without touching the ground with your legs. Or maybe just comfort? I’m not really even talking about which is better, that is subjective and depending on use case. My point is that the V11 suspension is really good. It’s not the bottle neck any more. There’s nothing wrong with it when it comes to riding single tracks. Maybe the fixed version of S18 suspension will be even better but not by much and at that point there are many other factors in play anyway. If I’d like to make my V11 better off-roader I can think a few improvements and better suspension is not on the top three list. Grip would be number one. 

[UniVehje]

3 hours ago, Llorx said:

I guess that also because the S18 has a increasing suspension while the v11 is linear. In the v11 you top-down more than in a S18, so the more bumpy a ride is, the worse the linear suspension feeling is. As you say, depends a lot on the offroad terrain type.

No, coil spring is linear and considered a good thing. Air springs use negative chambers to make it behave more linear. Can you elaborate more on the top-down effect on the V11 suspension? Or are we talking about different things? I’m learning from this: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday-negative-spring-air-shocks-2012.html

[Skywalker]

Excellent link,very informative.

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Skywalker

[sofu]

Greetings council members, I come bearing news from Inmotion Liam regarding the most reliable way to tell batch 2 apart from batch 1:

[mrelwood]

 

16 hours ago, onizukagto said:

If you do more road routes, do V11. If you do mostly off road,do S18. 

If you do mostly commute and night trips, V11. 

If you just do short trips or just for fun, S18. 

More importantly, if you want to disassemble and rebuild the suspension to make it work properly, S18. If you just want to go ride on your new wheel, V11.

16 hours ago, Mark Wilson said:

I see the S18 as a "dual sport" style (more focused on off roading) and the V11 as an "adventure" style (more focused on comfort).

I indeed get a very strong 4-stroke large adventure motorcycle feeling from the V11, all the way to how the power is delivered during faster or longer accelerations. Something I’ve never quite felt on an EUC before. As far as comfort goes, the lack of which on the S18 did remind me of an actual motocross bike, without ever having ridden one. Oh, and equipped with street tires of course.

14 hours ago, UniVehje said:

To me there’s nothing in the S18 that says it’s an off-road wheel.

Exactly. Maybe it’s just the lack of riding comfort? 

14 hours ago, UniVehje said:

But I still haven’t tested an S18 with a working suspension so my thoughts are based on theory. 

Like everyone else’s as well. They just don’t tend to or know to mention it.

13 hours ago, Mark Wilson said:

How would you determine the "better" off roader?

To me it comes down to control, which consists of grip, maneuverability, power delivery, clearance, etc. Having the ability to go from exactly where and how you intend to, in all situations. That’s why I can’t score the S18 at all well in this regard, as the wheel doesn’t turn very tightly, tire slips easier, and the side contours being of no use to my legs they only make the pads very narrow bringing only discomfort.

13 hours ago, Llorx said:

I guess that also because the S18 has a increasing suspension while the v11 is linear.

Increase (both the positive and) the negative chamber pressures and you can get the V11 suspension as progressive as you want. I learned that I can completely change the behavior going from 0 through 120 psi.

9 hours ago, UniVehje said:

No, coil spring is linear and considered a good thing. Air springs use negative chambers to make it behave more linear.

I’m sure you meant to type “more progressive”, or “less linear“...

[UniVehje]

59 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I’m sure you meant to type “more progressive”, or “less linear“...

I don't know if I use the terms correctly. I meant linear force curve like talked about on the video below.

 

[Llorx]

12 hours ago, UniVehje said:

No, coil spring is linear and considered a good thing. Air springs use negative chambers to make it behave more linear. Can you elaborate more on the top-down effect on the V11 suspension? Or are we talking about different things? I’m learning from this: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday-negative-spring-air-shocks-2012.html

Oh, that's what I saw in the V11 vs S18 @evX_Mick YouTube video. I don't own any of those. Waiting for more versions to come up

EDIT: Now I see that you mean "more progressive". Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Llorx

[Llorx]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Increase (both the positive and) the negative chamber pressures and you can get the V11 suspension as progressive as you want. I learned that I can completely change the behavior going from 0 through 120 psi.

That's cool. I only saw how the S18 can be tuned. Didn't know anything about V11 suspension tuning.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Llorx

[Zopper]

58 minutes ago, Llorx said:

That's cool. I only saw how the S18 can be tuned. Didn't know anything about V11 suspension tuning.

Both wheels have dual-chamber air shocks. The biggest advantage S18 has  is that you can swap the shock for a different one (after the suspension is fixed and working as it is supposed to do - it's useless to do with half-jammed S18) and that you have a rebound wheel on the shock.

[UniVehje]

2 minutes ago, Zopper said:

Both wheels have dual-chamber air shocks. The biggest advantage S18 has  is that you can swap the shock for a different one (after the suspension is fixed and working as it is supposed to do - it's useless to do with half-jammed S18) and that you have a rebound wheel on the shock.

The rebound knob is really the only big difference. I'm still not quite sure how big and advantage that is. I don't seem to have a problem with rebound so far. Otherwise both are dual chamber shocks, one is taken from the front of a mountain bike and the other is from the back. And being a stock part, the V11 shock should also (in theory) be swappable. But it might be much more difficult to find another shaft that fits. I tried but didn't come up with anything. For the most common type of shafts you might need to modify the system heavily. It will be interesting to see what people come up with in the future. 

 

[VizioN-Scope]

 

[DjPanJan]

Rainy in Poland: 🌊🚿🛁🤽🏻‍♂️🤿

 

[eve]

11 hours ago, mrelwood said:

More importantly, if you want to disassemble and rebuild the suspension to make it work properly, S18. If you just want to go ride on your new wheel, V11.

We know youre V11 fanboy you dont have to announce it every post. Jeez.

11 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Increase (both the positive and) the negative chamber pressures and you can get the V11 suspension as progressive as you want. I learned that I can completely change the behavior going from 0 through 120 psi.

Yeah and then end up like Hsiang. Progressive indeed.

6 hours ago, UniVehje said:

The rebound knob is really the only big difference.

 People dont seem to understand the concept of unsprung weight. Was nice enough to timestamp the video for you.

https://youtu.be/Rwim0seTp1Q?t=265

That is with the stock s**t linkage. With a proper setup its almost like going downhill on a smooth road. While on V11 youre a bunny.

I think even better example would be Wrong Ways new S18 video. He was shredding stairs much faster which gave the crappy linkage much more push.

Edited August 31, 2020 by eve

[Finn Bjerke]

Dear Eve.

1. Talk for yourself not on behalf of others pls. 
2. Show mrelwood some respect if possible. 

This staement:
"More importantly, if you want to disassemble and rebuild the suspension to make it work properly, S18. If you just want to go ride on your new wheel, V11."

Is based on the fact that some s18 needs to be fixed before they are functional. You can find a ton of info about it if you want.  

 

 

 

[eve]

26 minutes ago, Finn Bjerke said:

1. Talk for yourself not on behalf of others pls. 
2. Show mrelwood some respect if possible. 

1. Thats what im doing. 

2. ? we have a discussion here and all he does is V11 FOREVER! S18 is bad! In every post. Literally.

He was already caught up on this behaviour unbecoming of a moderator. But well its his personal opinion which i wont be taking from him but atleast it would be nice if he didnt do it every post maybe?

All S18 need to be fixed before you can get good suspension. That doesnt make it a bad wheel. It does make it a badly assembled wheel though.

[Finn Bjerke]

You state; 
"We know youre V11 fanboy you dont have to announce it every post. Jeez."    

Dont talk on behalf of others pls.  "We know" really means "I know"   ....     

My statement: 
"I think Mrelwood have made some very important contributions to the community overall. " 
is different from 
"we think Mrelwood have made some very important contributions to the community overall." 

UC? 

It annoys the hell ouf of me that Kingsong S18 (sometimes) needs extra fixing before the suspension works well and that Inmotion v11 does not come with good sidepads so that your feet is not pushed away from the pedal. (The great video from Manu wheelr shjows just that in the link you have here) Also It annoys me that I can not blood  wait for em to make better suspension products I have to be a naive first mover on this..... Not overly clever. 

your  statement 
"All S18 need to be fixed before you can get good suspension. "  = "All S18 needs to be fixed before you can get good suspension. " ? Yes ? 

That is new info thank you, I thought only some of em were in need of extra bearings etc.  If all of em needs fixing its royal pain in the b.. 

your  statement 
"He was already caught up on this behaviour unbecoming of a moderator."  This sentence is broken english to the best of my knowledge also its not correct.  In no way is he "unbecoming"   I am waiting for my suspension wheel and I have changed my mind 3 times,  Mrelwood and chooch gave me the info I want, but I still hate the idea you have to repair the KS s18 before its fully functional. Mrelwood have experienced both wheels and generously shares valid info about - nobody forces us the read it.  

have fun Be nice. 
 

[Finn Bjerke]

Eve: your statement:
" we have a discussion here and all he does is V11 FOREVER! S18 is bad! In every post. Literally."

NO mrelwood is debating wheels you are attacking a person, again.... talk for youssef mate. also try to debate the matter at hand. The matter is this among other things: 

Mrelwood statement is: 
" as the wheel doesn’t turn very tightly, tire slips easier, and the side contours being of no use to my legs they only make the pads very narrow bringing only discomfort." 

Why do you want to shut him up? Its relevant very mcuh so, its not "fanboy" its technical relevant info from a thoughtfull person who knows both wheels.