EUC World application & online service

[travsformation]

4 hours ago, Unventor said:

I would like make a public praise to @travsformation too because from what I have seen he have collected and suggested many good things. How @Seba are able to keep building stuff and changes is beyond me.

Thanks for your acknowledgment Unventor! Just happy to give back to such an awesome community!

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by travsformation

[travsformation]

31 minutes ago, vasuvius said:

With version 1.0.9 on Android 10 (Google Pixel 3), there is no way to exit the app. Removing it from the recent apps tray does not kill the app. Keeps running. 

Just in case you want this on the backlog. App doesn't seem to chug any battery while sleeping in the background, so, not an issue.

See this reply on the previous page

 

[tvw3]

@Seba Is Wheel Log Viewer inop with the .csv log files that EUC World produces and stores on the service? I have a 3MB file that EUC World updated. When I tried the Wheel Log Viewer it uploaded the file but then did not show anything. Tried on both Firefox 73.0.1 (64-bit) and IE 11.0.175. Is some particular add-on expected? Thanks.

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, tvw3 said:

@Seba Is Wheel Log Viewer inop with the .csv log files that EUC World produces and stores on the service? I have a 3MB file that EUC World updated. When I tried the Wheel Log Viewer it uploaded the file but then did not show anything. Tried on both Firefox 73.0.1 (64-bit) and IE 11.0.175. Is some particular add-on expected? Thanks.

If I understand you correctly (I might have this wrong) I think that answer to might be that euc.world uses a sync file service in android. 

The reason we discussed this was due to some behavior investigation some reported and it show up a little different for most of us when trying to close the app. 

@Seba have tried to do different fixes for it but... 

In short 2 things happens. If log files still is not uploaded the sync service will stay active and you might see this as a not working task/app screen. 

The other thing is if you open and quit euc.world with short within short time interval, android 10 precibe this as a possible app crash and auto restart kicks in launching the app again. 

Then on some android systems, a new way to do gestures kicks in to making closing the app harder. 

All above things comes across euc.world seems unstable or as it crashed. At first I didn't get what the debate was about but later that day I started to pick it up as I had hard time to close/quit the app too. 

Sorry for the long answer.

@Sebamight be able explain better. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Unventor

[MadInMad]

Hi all. I think EUC world is an excellent app, and I use it a lot for my MSX.
But not for my other wheels, this is because I find it too time consuming to change all settings to fit the different wheels. 
So my suggestion to improve the app even more would be a way to "bookmark" all settings, or could this be done in an other way?

[Seba]

19 minutes ago, MadInMad said:

Hi all. I think EUC world is an excellent app, and I use it a lot for my MSX.
But not for my other wheels, this is because I find it too time consuming to change all settings to fit the different wheels. 
So my suggestion to improve the app even more would be a way to "bookmark" all settings, or could this be done in an other way?

What version are you using and what settings you need to change for your wheels?

[Seba]

6 hours ago, tvw3 said:

@Seba Is Wheel Log Viewer inop with the .csv log files that EUC World produces and stores on the service? I have a 3MB file that EUC World updated. When I tried the Wheel Log Viewer it uploaded the file but then did not show anything. Tried on both Firefox 73.0.1 (64-bit) and IE 11.0.175. Is some particular add-on expected? Thanks.

Because of limited time, I focus on EUC World development and there is little time I can spare on wheellogviewer.net. In future, wheellogviewer.net functionality will be implemented as a part of EUC World. Send me CSV file that causes this problem to sebastian@euc.world, I'll try to check why it doesn't open.

[travsformation]

4 hours ago, MadInMad said:

But not for my other wheels, this is because I find it too time consuming to change all settings to fit the different wheels. 
So my suggestion to improve the app even more would be a way to "bookmark" all settings, or could this be done in an other way?

If you use the current version on the Play Store, all alarms (speed, current, temp.) are wheel-dependent and are saved (remember the wheel has to be connected when you set them)

[MadInMad]

31 minutes ago, travsformation said:

If you use the current version on the Play Store, all alarms (speed, current, temp.) are wheel-dependent and are saved (remember the wheel has to be connected when you set them)

OK, nice! I didn't know that. Now I will use the app much more! 

[tvw3]

@Seba Maybe a stupid question but how do I send you a .csv file? I don't see any such option.

[travsformation]

28 minutes ago, tvw3 said:

@Seba Maybe a stupid question but how do I send you a .csv file? I don't see any such option.

See below...  

13 hours ago, Seba said:

19 hours ago, tvw3 said:

@Seba Is Wheel Log Viewer inop with the .csv log files that EUC World produces and stores on the service? I have a 3MB file that EUC World updated. When I tried the Wheel Log Viewer it uploaded the file but then did not show anything. Tried on both Firefox 73.0.1 (64-bit) and IE 11.0.175. Is some particular add-on expected? Thanks.

Because of limited time, I focus on EUC World development and there is little time I can spare on wheellogviewer.net. In future, wheellogviewer.net functionality will be implemented as a part of EUC World. Send me CSV file that causes this problem to sebastian@euc.world, I'll try to check why it doesn't open.

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by travsformation

[tvw3]

Duh... Thanks.

[palachzzz]

Hi @Seba, where I can find latest source codes of EUC.world?

[Seba]

3 hours ago, palachzzz said:

Hi @Seba, where I can find latest source codes of EUC.world?

Hi @palachzzz  Latest GPL-ed EUC World source can be found at https://github.com/slastowski/EucWorldAndroid. Due to the terms of the agreement with King Song, the introduction of full support for King Song's unicycles required a license change and since then EUC World is no longer an open source application. The vast majority of WheelLog code has been rewritten, the remaining code fragments are used under an individual license granted to me by Kevin Cooper (the original creator of WheelLog) and @Jason McNeil (apparently a copyright owner).

Anyway, I wrote about all this in detail to you in an email sent on 27 December 2019. I didn't receive any response from you, but judging by your question today and bearing in mind that it was the Christmas and New Year's Eve period, I assume that you probably didn't noticed this email in your mailbox.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Seba
Corrected link

[palachzzz]

1 hour ago, Seba said:

Hi @palachzzz  Latest GPL-ed EUC World source can be found at https://github.com/slastowski/EucWorld. Due to the terms of the agreement with King Song, the introduction of full support for King Song's unicycles required a license change and since then EUC World is no longer an open source application. The vast majority of WheelLog code has been rewritten, the remaining code fragments are used under an individual license granted to me by Kevin Cooper (the original creator of WheelLog) and @Jason McNeil (apparently a copyright owner).

Anyway, I wrote about all this in detail to you in an email sent on 27 December 2019. I didn't receive any response from you, but judging by your question today and bearing in mind that it was the Christmas and New Year's Eve period, I assume that you probably didn't noticed this email in your mailbox.

hm.. so you just changed license without waiting response from all contributors? 

[Seba]

4 minutes ago, palachzzz said:

hm.. so you just changed license without waiting response from all contributors? 

No, I waited for your response for over 3 weeks, meantime removing parts that according to my knowledge was contributed by you. But if you think your rights may have been violated, please send me information about the code to which you own copyrights. If they are still in the EUC World code, they will be removed ASAP.

[palachzzz]

35 minutes ago, Seba said:

No, I waited for your response for over 3 weeks, meantime removing parts that according to my knowledge was contributed by you. But if you think your rights may have been violated, please send me information about the code to which you own copyrights. If they are still in the EUC World code, they will be removed ASAP.

Let's talk purely, I see that most of the functionality has not been removed, or rewritten. So you just changed the license at the request of Kingsong who flooded this business with money. I think this is unacceptable. But I will not ask (neither now, nor in the future) to remove anything from EUC World because end users of your application will suffer from it. But I needed to clarify this for myself.

Edited March 6, 2020 by palachzzz

[euccommuter]

2 hours ago, Seba said:

Latest GPL-ed EUC World source can be found at https://github.com/slastowski/EucWorld.

The project does not seem to exist anymore

2 hours ago, Seba said:

Due to the terms of the agreement with King Song, the introduction of full support for King Song's unicycles required a license change and since then EUC World is no longer an open source application.

Not that I have contributed to this awesome project (sadly) but as a huge fan of Open Source this decision saddens me.

Any chance for releasing as Open Source parts of the project without the proprietary KS code? It will be easier to automate this process now with CI/CD rather than later if you change your mind. I think it's too early to close the doors to the community, plz think about it

Edited March 6, 2020 by euccommuter
grammar

[palachzzz]

3 minutes ago, euccommuter said:

Any chance you can release as Open Source parts of the project without the proprietary KS code?

No way, only split it to another App, or ask KingSong to change their mind

[euccommuter]

@palachzzz and @Seba then what's going to happen now to the other EUC brands, are they going to be removed and this is going to become a KS only app?

[Chriull]

21 minutes ago, palachzzz said:

Let's talk purely, I see that most of the functionality has not been removed, or rewritten.

In the last on github available version?

Quote

So you just changed the license at the request of Kingsong who flooded this business with money.

Afaik Kingsong did nothing but share information against a non disclosure agreement.

The whole initiative imo came from @Jason McNeil, who looks/pushes since quite some time for better apps.

Quote

I think this is unacceptable.

I'd also prefer this to go on as open source project, but as KS wheel owner i like that i don't have to use the KS app anymore...

Quote

But I will not ask (neither now, nor in the future) to remove anything from EUC World because end users of your application will suffer from it. But I needed to clarify this for myself.

Thanks, especially for your wheellog contribution! Which seems you started again?

8 minutes ago, euccommuter said:

The project does not seem to exist anymore

https://github.com/slastowski/EucWorldAndroid

 

[Seba]

10 minutes ago, palachzzz said:

Let's talk purely, I see that most of the functionality has not been removed, or rewritten. So you just changed the license at the request of Kingsong who flooded this business with money. I think this is unacceptable. But I will not ask (neither now, nor in the future) to remove anything from EUC World because end users of your application will suffer from it. But I needed to clarify this for myself.

Pavel, I really recognize what you did for EUC community, as a developer and EUC rider I also recognize your great contribution not only to WheelLog, you also served forum community with your technical expertise. The last thing I want is to treat anyone in unfair way. I also don't want to enter any dispute and that's why I don't want to argue what was rewritten and what not. Nothing good for users would come out of this.

We all know that there have long been doubts about the legal status of the WheelLog and for this reason at some moment you have been accused for violating someone else's rights. I think it was very unfair in the context of the work you put into this application. I can understand that this was one of the reasons why your enthusiasm for further development of the WheelLog has cooled down. I don't want to get involved in similar dispute and I don't want my enthusiasm to cool down. I invested more than thousand of hours of work for EUC World project, huge amounts of my private money and my precious time to give community an application that will serve it well. I'm sure you had the same intentions. And I don't get any profits from it, but on the contrary, I still put time, knowledge and hard earned money into it. When others drive on their EUC using EUC World, I sit at my desk and develop this application.

And I would like to make it clear - King Song didn't paid a dime for implementing KS support in EUC World so I don't know what "flooding with money" are you talking about. It was entirely @Jason McNeil initiative to support King Song users by convincing King Song to share technical details. As a result King Song agreed to use their firmware servers by EUC World users and supported me disclosing some old and incomplete sources that eventually turned out to be of little help for me. I spent almost a month reverse-engineering their BLE protocol, network communication. While Jason supported EUC World with generous donation (that was fully spent to cover storage upgrade on euc.world server), I didn't this for money. I did this because at the end of 2019 Google and Apple removed KS apps from their app stores and King Song users was left without any reliable Android support. While KS app was still available for download as an APK from KS website, it was caused massive problems and bricked many wheels during update attempt. Especially that KS released 2.0 firmware at the time... And many users  didn't wanted to "install application from untrusted source".

41 minutes ago, palachzzz said:

But I will not ask (neither now, nor in the future) to remove anything from EUC World because end users of your application will suffer from it. But I needed to clarify this for myself.

I really, really appreciate it. I would also like you to know that I will always be happy to share with you the knowledge and experience I gained while developing EUC World. After all, we both do this for EUC community and this is our passion, not business.

[Seba]

44 minutes ago, euccommuter said:

The project does not seem to exist anymore

https://github.com/slastowski/EucWorldAndroid - I edited previous post as I forgot to add "Android",

45 minutes ago, euccommuter said:

Not that I have contributed to this awesome project (sadly) but as a huge fan of Open Source this decision saddens me.

I'm sorry that you regret your decision to support EUC World. I will be happy to return your donation. Just give me your email in a private message and I will return entire amount of your donation thru PayPal.

I'm also a big fan of open source. But let's make it clear - open source doesn't work for such niche applications like WheelLog and EUC World. This is why WheelLog was always struggling to keep actively developed and maintained, while commercial DarknessBot is actively developed and maintained. Without the support of a sufficiently large user base and a sufficiently large number of active developers, such a project has no chance of survival. WheelLog has always been a project that one person worked on (not including some one-off contributions) - Kevin, Pavel, not to mention me.

48 minutes ago, euccommuter said:

what's going to happen now to the other EUC brands, are they going to be removed and this is going to become a KS only app?

WheelLog and EUC World was always meant to be universal and not related to any particular wheel make. I don't see the point in removing any support that is already implemented?

[palachzzz]

The source code of the Wheellog is the only relevant place where anyone can get information about the EUC exchange protocols now. I know about the existence of some Arduino-projects for wheels, which took information from the sources of the WheelLog. Some other projects also scooped up information from there, for example this one: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vvv_valera_valera.EUCer (still in Russian only, but it doesn’t matter in general).
The initial reason for my todays claim: I planned to release some code that did not previously exist in the public domain regarding wheel protocols. I'm not against that this functionality appears in EUC World or anywhere else. But I don’t like the idea if it works only in one direction (like it was previously for WheelLog, when some people did something but never returned it to WheelLog)

2 hours ago, Chriull said:

hanks, especially for your wheellog contribution! Which seems you started again?

I have never been true android developer, so all this time I did it by existence of free time, and interesting requests by comminity. The way I realized it - wasn't the best way, some bugs which were present in WheelLog for a long time @Seba fixed pretty fast. That's why I breathed a sigh of relief when Sebastian started contributons. 
 

1 hour ago, Seba said:

We all know that there have long been doubts about the legal status of the WheelLog and for this reason at some moment you have been accused for violating someone else's rights. I think it was very unfair in the context of the work you put into this application. I can understand that this was one of the reasons why your enthusiasm for further development of the WheelLog has cooled down. I don't want to get involved in similar dispute and I don't want my enthusiasm to cool down. I invested more than thousand of hours of work for EUC World project, huge amounts of my private money and my precious time to give community an application that will serve it well. I'm sure you had the same intentions. And I don't get any profits from it, but on the contrary, I still put time, knowledge and hard earned money into it. When others drive on their EUC using EUC World, I sit at my desk and develop this application.

I totally understand this, but I do not like the idea that Kingsong's inability to make a working application spills out for the community in this way.

1 hour ago, Seba said:

But let's make it clear - open source doesn't work for such niche applications like WheelLog and EUC World. This is why WheelLog was always struggling to keep actively developed and maintained, while commercial DarknessBot is actively developed and maintained.

Surprisingly, this works. The EUC World comes from the existence of open source WheelLog. Some other projects appeared the same. But I agree that it was never good for WheelLog.
Regarding active developing of DarknessBot - people ask for two years to add logs in DB, but only now there is Beta with logs realized in acceptable way. 
The same was with me - sometimes I was asked to add something I don't like or don't need, and in most of cases I never did it, I guess, it was the reason of you contributions @Seba , just think about it.

So as I told, no claims from my side anymore. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by palachzzz

[euccommuter]

1 hour ago, Seba said:

I'm sorry that you regret your decision to support EUC World. I will be happy to return your donation. Just give me your email in a private message and I will return entire amount of your donation thru PayPal.

Sorry I meant coding contribution. I'm more than happy for having donated to this project

1 hour ago, Seba said:

open source doesn't work for such niche applications

I agree that one man's job in niche development is always prone to abandonment, but the thing is that Open Source gives the chance to anybody to continue working on somebody else's forgotten project. Also you give a chance to code wanderers to help lonely wolves

1 hour ago, Seba said:

commercial DarknessBot is actively developed and maintained

Well, in all fairness Darkness Production is a company that develops apps, but even if you plan to create your own company (random idea) you can still create Open Source apps.

1 hour ago, Seba said:

WheelLog and EUC World was always meant to be universal and not related to any particular wheel make. I don't see the point in removing any support that is already implemented

Good to know. I was asking because I don't know what was the agreement with KS, but thought of the possibility for them to want a KS only EUC World to hurt the other brands.