KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[ir_fuel]

27 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

As for braking wobbles, I can’t figure out how to aggressively straight line brake on this wheel without wobbles. Have tried both symmetrical and asymmetrical stances.

If I slowly decelerate at, let’s say 50% effort, it doesn’t wobble. But as soon as I try to brake it hard, it wobbles.

But it doesn’t bother me too much, since I’ve learned how to heel pump brake.

TBH you are working around a problem that shouldn't be a problem.

I really wonder where that behaviour comes from. AFAIK I have never read so much about brake wobbles in any other wheel's topic.

[Patton250]

Just now, ir_fuel said:

TBH you are working around a problem that shouldn't be a problem.

I really wonder where that behaviour comes from. AFAIK I have never read so much about brake wobbles in any other wheel's topic.

 Anywhere from 15 psi to 25 psi I can accelerate as fast as possible get up to 30 mph with zero wobbles then hit the brakes as hard as I can with zero wobbles. I truly don’t understand why you are having problems. I’m very sorry that you are. 

[ir_fuel]

If only I wouldn't be the only fool in a 30km radius from where I live to ride these things. I never get the chance to test other wheels and compare. 

[ir_fuel]

Just now, Patton250 said:

 Anywhere from 15 psi to 25 psi I can accelerate as fast as possible get up to 30 mph with zero wobbles then hit the brakes as hard as I can with zero wobbles. I truly don’t understand why you are having problems. I’m very sorry that you are. 

But 15PSI, seriously?

I'm not used to PSI numbers, but Googling showed me that's 1 bar? For me, for a tubed tire, that's like riding on a flat.

[ir_fuel]

38 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

At 30psi, I get wobbles past 15mph.

Was searching on pressures and found this post of yours. This is exactly the pressure I am currently using. I find it unbelievable that this is considered "too much" for this wheel.

Just really worried that if I remove more air I risk destroying the rim or the inner tube.

[Patton250]

3 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

But 15PSI, seriously?

I'm not used to PSI numbers, but Googling showed me that's 1 bar? For me, for a tubed tire, that's like riding on a flat.

 No I just tried it at that psi. I settled in at 20 PSI. 

[ir_fuel]

That's still seriously low. That's lower than I run my tubeless Z10.

But then again, considering a few of you use this, I might as well give it a shot too. I wonder how reluctant it will be to corner at that pressure.

[chrisjunlee]

15 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

TBH you are working around a problem that shouldn't be a problem.

I really wonder where that behaviour comes from. AFAIK I have never read so much about brake wobbles in any other wheel's topic.

Agreed. Hoping it's rider error, since @Patton250 isn't hitting it.

9 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Was searching on pressures and found this post of yours. This is exactly the pressure I am currently using. I find it unbelievable that this is considered "too much" for this wheel.

Just really worried that if I remove more air I risk destroying the rim or the inner tube.

It took a while to get used to the lower pressure, cause as you said, it feels so flat. And it's the reason why I kept on trying out different pressures: I wanted to go higher since I'm worried about the tire pinch. 

I think it was @eddiemoythat sold me on the lower pressure being OK.

FWIW, I'm at 350 miles, most of that at 18 PSI. Haven't done any curb bobps or drops though.

2 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

That's still seriously low. That's lower than I run my tubeless Z10.

But then again, considering a few of you use this, I might as well give it a shot too. I wonder how reluctant it will be to corner at that pressure.

It corners like a dream for me. Carving feels amazing at speed, especially since the lower pressure soaks up all the bumps.

What's your bodyweight again?

Edited August 11, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Mike Sacristan]

64kg rider and I ride at 19 PSI on my MSX. Tomorrow i'm going to go down to 17 and do some tests.
I count the MSX as 19.5" x 3" and the Nikola/16X as 17.5" x 3" so you can recalculate for that.

Check out the beginning of the clip where I stand and jump and bounce on the MSX.
I would have to do something really stupid to hit the rim like hitting a curb dead on at speed.

 

[ir_fuel]

5 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

What's your bodyweight again?

In ze morning on ze bathroom scale a bit below 68kg. That's just below 150pounds.

[ir_fuel]

1 minute ago, Mike Sacristan said:

64kg rider and I ride at 19 PSI on my MSX

Now we are doing metric and imperial units in the same sentence. Aarrggg 

[Patton250]

7 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

That's still seriously low. That's lower than I run my tubeless Z10.

But then again, considering a few of you use this, I might as well give it a shot too. I wonder how reluctant it will be to corner at that pressure.

 I have my Z 10 at 15 psi. Maybe 16 or 17 psi. It runs really awesome at that pressure for me. 

[ir_fuel]

It's hard to have a flat, if your tire is already flat  

Time to do some experimenting.

[chrisjunlee]

5 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

In ze morning on ze bathroom scale a bit below 68kg. That's just below 150pounds.

So you're about 11 stones. Since I'm running ~124,106 Pa at 62 kg, I think you're OK for 1.31 bar.

But I want to stress that it took me ~10 miles of trusting this new flat feeling before I loved it. It felt like I was on cheat newbie flat mode until then.

If you want to reassure yourself, you could also record the tire deflection, you'll see it's not that much. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Mike Sacristan]

Just now, ir_fuel said:

Now we are doing metric and imperial units in the same sentence. Aarrggg 

Haha sorry! I'm a metric guy. Born in Canada (metric), Spanish parents (metric) and live in Sweden (metric).
Never used any air pressure times in day to day live so when I started to dig into it I had a lot of forums as reference.
Now it just stuck and I can't convert to bar for the life of me. But I should... I never even though of it as imperial vs metric. 

[ir_fuel]

8 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

So you're about 11 stones

EVEN MORE DIFFERENT UNITS 

 

What's next? Discussing top speeds in yards per moon-cycle?

9 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

~124,106 Pa

Didn't even notice this one

[bruno356]

4 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Of all the wheels I had so far (Inmotion V8, Rockwheel GT16, Ninebot Z10, Gotway Mten3, Gotway MCM5) this is the first wheel on which I experience this.

Maybe check your wheel/rim for sideways wobble, I do not have a lot of faith in Kingsong quality control as my New 18XL rim wobbles by 1mm (using dial indicator on the rim) Kingsong said this is within normal limits (really? in my opinion it should be close to 0mm). When riding, this wobble can be felt. Kingsong suggested I hit the rim with a mallet to straighten it (which I have not done). Not suggesting this is the problem you are having but it may be worth checking.

regards - bruno

[ir_fuel]

9 minutes ago, bruno356 said:

Kingsong suggested I hit the rim with a mallet to straighten

That's some ghetto problem solving there

[chrisjunlee]

20 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

That's some ghetto problem solving there

Insight into the state of the art Kingsong service shop.

[Ben Kim]

1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

I see what you are pointing at, and in a sense you are right. At this point in time (I have 160km on my wheel, most of them off road), if I had to get rid of all my wheels and keep only one to do it all, I'm not sure this one would be it. Compared to all other wheels I had it seriously lacks straight line stability at higher speeds. I don't know where it comes from and I find it strange that all of the sudden I have to adapt to something I never needed adapting to before. This is my 3rd 16" wheel so it's not as if my experience is limited to the Z10 and dunno, a Gotway Monster or whatnot.

This is not the wheel for me to do normal road riding. The lack of stability under braking limits my enjoyment as I will always need to be on the lookout and super defensive, because I know I can't stop it as hard as I can stop any other wheel I had ridden until now. Off road there are zero issues as I don't hit such speeds (25mph). If you are not confident under braking you should not be going fast. This is why I am impressed by people here going 30mph with this thing. I honestly don't understand how they do it.

Right now the Z10 still has a very important place in my wheel collection. The only thing the KS16X has going for it, compared to the Z10, is that it is A LOT more comfortable over bumps and cracks. I wish I could combine all the features of the KS16X with the stability of the Z10. That would for me be the perfect wheel on the road.

Will this improve? Time will tell.

 

I would love to see some videos of current owners here going 25mph and doing hard braking.

I hope for everyone's sake here that it's something that can be fine-tuned through firmware and not a hardware quirk, as that would majorly suck.  EUC should be an extension of your body, not something you fight for control.  

[ir_fuel]

I'm going to lower tire pressures next time I'm out. I'll report back.

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

64kg rider and I ride at 19 PSI on my MSX. Tomorrow i'm going to go down to 17 and do some tests.
I count the MSX as 19.5" x 3" and the Nikola/16X as 17.5" x 3" so you can recalculate for that.

Check out the beginning of the clip where I stand and jump and bounce on the MSX.
I would have to do something really stupid to hit the rim like hitting a curb dead on at speed.

It's all about rider weight. 19psi looks perfectly fine to me, in your video. Try that at 82kg - ain't going to work so well.

And if you are ever trail riding (on a trail with rocks) miles from the nearest road. do yourself a favor and pump up the tire. I have personally witnessed an instant snake-bite flat when a rider rode over a large stone (small rock). The wheel had to be carried out 8-miles. I've also read about this happening to others. It's a real phenomenon.

But all you pavement riders can probably get by running on low pressure. Personally I think cornering sucks on low pressure.

[chrisjunlee]

Quick update: Was about to take off for an errand and the wheel felt much lower. I look down and I've got a flat

Last time I rode it was Friday night. Guess I have a slow leak, not sure when I got it.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

Quick update: Was about to take off for an errand and the wheel felt much lower. I look down and I've got a flat

Last time I rode it was Friday night. Guess I have a slow leak, not sure when I got it.

Did you Slime it yet?

[eddiemoy]

4 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

Agreed. Hoping it's rider error, since @Patton250 isn't hitting it.

It took a while to get used to the lower pressure, cause as you said, it feels so flat. And it's the reason why I kept on trying out different pressures: I wanted to go higher since I'm worried about the tire pinch. 

I think it was @eddiemoythat sold me on the lower pressure being OK.

FWIW, I'm at 350 miles, most of that at 18 PSI. Haven't done any curb bobps or drops though.

It corners like a dream for me. Carving feels amazing at speed, especially since the lower pressure soaks up all the bumps.

What's your bodyweight again?

You weigh 5lbs less than I do.  I’ve been practicing going up curbs without jumping.  And coming down curbs which I’m very comfortable with.  I’m also at 18psi.  I just checked today and it went down to 16psi.  Still feels fine.  The tire is so tall, I don’t worry about tire pinch.  Getting more used to the CST tire.  Just got the Nikola plus, will be riding it tomorrow.  Same tire so interested to feel if there is any difference.