KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[HarpMudd]

20 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

HEY @Jason McNeil  I need a magnet!  Just what he wants to hear. 

Same here.  My right pedal just flops down and there's no friction as you fold it up. There's also no magnet to hold it in place.  I tried inserting an Allen wrench in the hole to tighten the bolt, but it won't budge and frankly don't want to force it and make it worse.

[Daniel-Son]

 Last night I went riding and had a bonsai moment, I found the balance!  The wild horse is now tame.  The learning curve is sharp but short. 

 This morning I went for a range test, started with 93% battery because I couldn’t wait for 100%. After 2hr and 45min (20% batt left) my range on darknessbot was 62.8 miles but my actual gps range was 46 miles. Darknessbot is reporting accurate battery levels (need to make sure to set batt size to 1555), just like my 18L when it reaches 0% throttling begins. I’m left with 3 LED’s not green but yellow. All flat Florida roads and I weigh 215. I will try again next week, this time with 100% batt. 

[Marty Backe]

42 minutes ago, HarpMudd said:

Same here.  My right pedal just flops down and there's no friction as you fold it up. There's also no magnet to hold it in place.  I tried inserting an Allen wrench in the hole to tighten the bolt, but it won't budge and frankly don't want to force it and make it worse.

The "set screws" for the pedals are used to retain the shaft that the pedals rotate on. They do not "tighten" anything. The threads in the whole are not thru-threads, so as you thread the set screw in in they will naturally stop.

Sometimes the magnets inside the shell will fall out, because Gotway uses hot-glue to secure them. I would open the side (very easy to do) and inspect it to locate the magnet. You do not what that to be loose inside the wheel.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Marty Backe

[HarpMudd]

51 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

The "set screws" for the pedals are used to retain the shaft that the pedals rotate on. They do not "tighten" anything. The threads in the whole are not thru-threads, so as you thread the set screw in in they will naturally stop.

Sometimes the magnets inside the shell will fall out, because Gotway uses hot-glue to secure them. I would open the side (very easy to do) and inspect it to locate the magnet. You do not what that to be loose inside the wheel.

Thanks Marty. Even better regarding the set screws, makes me confident I will not mess anything up when I remove the pedals. I was able to find this tear down tutorial which should give me what I need.  https://ecodrift.ru/2019/06/24/kingsong-ks-16x-disassembling/

Edited August 4, 2019 by HarpMudd

[Patton250]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Tires can make a huge difference on how a wheel rides. Huge. All evidence points to KingSong not carrying a whole lot about the tire that they throw on the wheel. I'm afraid you give the Chinese employees way too much credit 

Ah.  We going back to the GotWay  King song thing again? I’ll stay out of it. :-)

[chrisjunlee]

4 hours ago, Daniel-Son said:

 Last night I went riding and had a bonsai moment, I found the balance!  

What changed? And 64 miles in under 3 hours, wow, good stamina.

Edited August 4, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[ir_fuel]

18 hours ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Just hit 250 miles on my 16x. All is well with no crashes due to the V1.01 firmware. This is my first wheel so maybe I just don't know any better, but the wheel is totally usable and I hit the 50kph tiltback every ride now. I tend to cruise at 48kph for miles at a time with no ill effect. I'm currently charging back up as much as I can with this 1.5A charger. I'll be going back out this evening when its cooler and there are less pedestrians on the waterfront to get as many miles as I can. -Justin

 

Edit: Added screencap of the kingsong app from half way through my ride.

Are you on holiday, unemployed or a student?  

[Patton250]

Ok new report.  So today I lowered the tire pressure to 24 PSI  and all Gyro feeling is gone.  This thing carves every bit as good as any wheel I own. Very smooth indeed.  I should’ve just left it low PSI to begin with. My Nikola is at 22 PSI and it is awesome there. Same with my Z10  although with it I still experience the Gyro feeling just a lot less at lower pressures.  Those of you having trouble carving at higher speeds or difficulty turning try lowering the pressure on your tire.  I hope this helps. 

 On another note I brought an old Samsung Galaxy 8 out of retirement to try this wheel log app.  Now I’ve only played with the app for a couple hours today but in my opinion it’s a lot better than the manufactures apps or even  darkness bot.  Kind of jealous of you android users that you get this app. Of course it’s not enough to make me leave Apple because I hate the android platform. LOL.  However perhaps I’ll just use this S8 whenever I ride. 

[ir_fuel]

36 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 Those of you having trouble carving at higher speeds or difficulty turning try lowering the pressure on your tire.  I hope this helps. 

That's against any logic. If anything higher tire pressure should make the wheel easier to turn as the contact patch is reduced and it will tip over more easily.

[ir_fuel]

38 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

in my opinion it’s a lot better than the manufactures apps or even  darkness bot.

I agree.

The logging/graphs in Darknessbot are a complete disaster. Impossible to get a decent history view. I rode my wheel 2 times with Darknessbot today and in the evening it's already impossible to get a decent view of your speed log from the afternoon, because of some kind of compression that throws away all details.

This has been the case for a very long time now and I don't think it will change any time soon unfortunately, because, like you, I am also a user of the Apple ecosystem, and I'd rather not take 2 phones with me when riding.

That's why I ordered an Android Watch (that runs a full Android) and I will test the optimized Wheellog version once that arrives. I hope to use that as speedometer on my wrist and not carry a second phone on me.

[Rywokast]

17 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

That's against any logic. If anything higher tire pressure should make the wheel easier to turn as the contact patch is reduced and it will tip over more easily.

yea that was a bit confusing to me too.. generally the lower the psi the easier to stay upright and the more hesitant it will be to turn? maybe its just a really wonky tire idk dont have one but from everything ive had lower pressure = more stable and higher pressure = easier/sharper turns.. perhaps with the current tire it was just uncomfortable at a higher PSI?

Edited August 4, 2019 by Rywokast

[Patton250]

14 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

That's against any logic. If anything higher tire pressure should make the wheel easier to turn as the contact patch is reduced and it will tip over more easily.

I am talking about countering the Gyro feeling which makes it difficult (for some) to turn.  Lowering the tire pressure does that. At least it does it for me in a massive way. So I’m not really sure what logic you’re talking about because all I can tell you is what I experience. Perhaps it’s different for you and others. 

[Patton250]

15 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

I agree.

The logging/graphs in Darknessbot are a complete disaster. Impossible to get a decent history view. I rode my wheel 2 times with Darknessbot today and in the evening it's already impossible to get a decent view of your speed log from the afternoon, because of some kind of compression that throws away all details.

This has been the case for a very long time now and I don't think it will change any time soon unfortunately, because, like you, I am also a user of the Apple ecosystem, and I'd rather not take 2 phones with me when riding.

That's why I ordered an Android Watch (that runs a full Android) and I will test the optimized Wheellog version once that arrives. I hope to use that as speedometer on my wrist and not carry a second phone on me.

 If you get an android watch do you have to have the android phone on your person in order to make the app work or can you just ride with the watch? 

[ir_fuel]

There are a few things that influence how a easily wheel wants to corner IMO:

- weight (the more mass you have turning, the more difficult the wheel will turn). This also could also explain why different tyres have different behavior. Maybe there is a weight difference? Weight on the outside of the wheel counts for much more than closer to the center

- the shape of the tyre. The pointier the tyre, the easier it will tilt over. Here not only tire width but the actual shape plays a role. One 3" wide tyre isn't the same as another 3" tyre. And when you play with pressures you influence the shape of the contact patch.

- center of gravity. The more top-heavy a wheel is, the more easy it will "fall over", but I think that's more a low speed thing than something that really plays a role when going 20+mph.

 

As consumers we only have an influence on number 2. All the others are set by the manufacturer. And even number 2 is hard to manage, as swapping a tyre is not a simple process, different types are hard to come by (can't go to the bike shop) and nobody knows up front if they will fit. 

So that leaves us with pressure.  

4 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 If you get an android watch do you have to have the android phone on your person in order to make the app work or can you just ride with the watch? 

For most Android watches you need to pair them to your Android phone, yes.

There are some watches out there that run standalone Android, but these are rare and you need to look for them in China. No famous brands either. I ordered one for about $80. We'll see how good it works.

[erk1024]

1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

We'll see how good it works.

Please let us know. That would be really useful. 

[ir_fuel]

Just now, erk1024 said:

Please let us know. That would be really useful. 

True, but give me at least 3 more weeks. The China boat isn't very fast  and on Aliexpress you can choose between slow shipping and even slower shipping :p  

[Patton250]

2 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

There are a few things that influence how a easily wheel wants to corner IMO:

- weight (the more mass you have turning, the more difficult the wheel will turn). This also could also explain why different tyres have different behavior. Maybe there is a weight difference? Weight on the outside of the wheel counts for much more than closer to the center

- the shape of the tyre. The pointier the tyre, the easier it will tilt over. Here not only tire width but the actual shape plays a role. One 3" wide tyre isn't the same as another 3" tyre. And when you play with pressures you influence the shape of the contact patch.

- center of gravity. The more top-heavy a wheel is, the more easy it will "fall over", but I think that's more a low speed thing than something that really plays a role when going 20+mph.

 

As consumers we only have an influence on number 2. All the others are set by the manufacturer. And even number 2 is hard to manage, as swapping a tyre is not a simple process, different types are hard to come by (can't go to the bike shop) and nobody knows up front if they will fit. 

So that leaves us with pressure.  

For most Android watches you need to pair them to your Android phone, yes.

There are some watches out there that run standalone Android, but these are rare and you need to look for them in China. No famous brands either. I ordered one for about $80. We'll see how good it works.

  Well it seems fatter tires act differently and skinnier tires. Everything I said above is not accurate for my KS16S or 18XL.  But it is extremely accurate for my 16X, Nikola and Z10.  So I guess everyone’s different right? 

 

 Please share with me what Watch you ordered. I would like to try that also.

Also I guess I  wouldn’t mind pairing it with the android phone and carrying it with me on rides  if someone recommends a decent watch that works with the app but I’m not going to use that phone as a phone so I’m not going to put a chip in it. The Bluetooth works just fine now even though it’s not connected to a service. 

[Rywokast]

11 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 If you get an android watch do you have to have the android phone on your person in order to make the app work or can you just ride with the watch? 

depends.. they can be deceiving.. most would require you to have the phone on you and simply be displaying the data from the phone.. but if you were to get a true android watch, actually running full android not wear OS or some other smartwatch operating system then yes, anything you can do on an android phone you can do on the watch independent of any phone something like a newer lemfo watch and not something like a samsung watch or ticwatch etc..

[ir_fuel]

9 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 if someone recommends a decent watch that works with the app but I’m not going to use that phone as a phone so I’m not going to put a chip in it.

Check the wheellog thread. Most people use a Pebble (but they are discontinued so you need to find a 2nd hand one), but someone added Garmin support.

 

I just ordered the same watch again but now on Banggood with fast shipping (5-8 days). Could end up being expensive (customs), but hey ...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983156863.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.36414c4dMj1Enh

[meepmeepmayer]

@Patton250 There's also the modified Wheellog from https://euc.world/ with a lot of features. Check it out if you're interested.

[Rywokast]

1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

Check the wheellog thread. Most people use a Pebble (but they are discontinued so you need to find a 2nd hand one), but someone added Garmin support.

 

I just ordered the same watch again but now on Banggood with fast shipping (5-8 days). Could end up being expensive (customs), but hey ...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983156863.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.36414c4dMj1Enh

i thought wheellog only supported android 7+ now? or you just using an older version?

[ir_fuel]

Just now, Rywokast said:

i thought wheellog only supported android 7+ now? or you just using an older version?

Someone made a fork with support for this watch.

[Rywokast]

Just now, ir_fuel said:

Someone made a fork with support for this watch.

ohhh okay, nice

[Patton250]

6 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

depends.. they can be deceiving.. most would require you to have the phone on you and simply be displaying the data from the phone.. but if you were to get a true android watch, actually running full android not wear OS or some other smartwatch operating system then yes, anything you can do on an android phone you can do on the watch independent of any phone something like a newer lemfo watch and not something like a samsung watch or ticwatch etc..

 It seems nothing can be easy. I don’t mind spending the money but what should I get? I mean an Apple watch is an Apple watch so that’s easy but what about these android watches? Isn’t there something I can just go to the mall tomorrow and get that will work with what we are talking about? I can’t believe you have to order something from China . 

[Rywokast]

8 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 It seems nothing can be easy. I don’t mind spending the money but what should I get? I mean an Apple watch is an Apple watch so that’s easy but what about these android watches? Isn’t there something I can just go to the mall tomorrow and get that will work with what we are talking about? I can’t believe you have to order something from China . 

i mean i guess its possible if they would carry something like that.. but i would bet money on no, you have to order something from china.. it seems the modified wheellog can run on anything android 4 and above so any cheap full android smartwatch like the ones ir_fuel posted would work as they are running android 5... if you try amazon i bet you can find one that will come a lot faster than gearbest or aliexpress but just be sure that it says in the description that the OS is "android X.XX" an apple watch is an apple watch yes because ios or anything apple related is the farthest possible from open source there is only one company who can make them but even still an apple watch is not running ios but watchos which does not have the functionality of an apple phone and it should be paired with an apple phone

Edited August 4, 2019 by Rywokast