KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

Appeal to authority arguments don't work unfortunately.

Sorry you didn't want friendly advice.

I take you have not followed previous discussions about this having dual chargers connected to a KS wheel before. 

Long story very short: high risk of getting inbalance in battery packs leading to a early battery failure and possibly faceplant when pushing battery for power. 

But nvm I shall not give you any further response to you questions or posts. 

 

[chrisjunlee]

5 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Sorry you didn't want friendly advice.

I take you have not followed previous discussions about this having dual chargers connected to a KS wheel before. 

Long story very short: high risk of getting inbalance in battery packs leading to a early battery failure and possibly faceplant when pushing battery for power. 

But nvm I shall not give you any further response to you questions or posts. 

Hmm, I see you’re unfamiliar with BMS. You do you.

For everyone else: the BMS is what handles charging and balancing. Both Kingsong inlets are connected in parallel and thus, to the same BMS units.

I’m not even going to address the “high risk” “battery imbalance” “face plant” argument. You’ve somehow misplaced the conclusion to a completely different root cause (people disconnecting their charger after the light goes green). 

Friendly advice is fine, but be aware of when you’re spreading nonsense and be prepared to be called out for it. 

[chrisjunlee]

Back on topic: I’m at 200 miles on the 16X, and I absolutely hate it. This boring wheel is worth at most $800 to me. 

If I wanted something so conservatively tuned and boring, I would’ve just went with a class 1 electric bicycle. Yes, class 1, not class 2 - that’s how underpowered this wheel feels.

I like the idea of a 3” tire. What I don’t like is how we were duped with a rock hard tire. 

[BleepBloopBlop]

12 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Back on topic: I’m at 200 miles on the 16X, and I absolutely hate it. This boring wheel is worth at most $800 to me. 

If I wanted something so conservatively tuned and boring, I would’ve just went with a class 1 electric bicycle. Yes, class 1, not class 2 - that’s how underpowered this wheel feels.

I like the idea of a 3” tire. What I don’t like is how we were duped with a rock hard tire. 

I'll buy it off you for $800! PM me your paypal address and I'll have my friend that lives in Seattle drop by and pick it up!!!!!

[mrelwood]

I’ll do better! $900, + reasonable shipping costs of course!

[ir_fuel]

Don't understand what you mean by "boring". It rides like an EUC. 

[ir_fuel]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

Sorry you didn't want friendly advice.

I take you have not followed previous discussions about this having dual chargers connected to a KS wheel before. 

Long story very short: high risk of getting inbalance in battery packs leading to a early battery failure and possibly faceplant when pushing battery for power. 

But nvm I shall not give you any further response to you questions or posts. 

 

Maybe you can give them to me then. How can you get imbalance in battery packs? I suppose those ports are simply connected in parallel to a BMS, otherwise you would only charge one pack per port? If I push 1.5 through one and 3 through the second one doesn't that simply lead to 4.5?

 

 

[Rywokast]

21 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Maybe you can give them to me then. How can you get imbalance in battery packs? I suppose those ports are simply connected in parallel to a BMS, otherwise you would only charge one pack per port? If I push 1.5 through one and 3 through the second one doesn't that simply lead to 4.5?

it does yes.. nothing inherently wrong with it at all.. i think kingsong advises against it simply because it was not built to withstand more than 5 amps.. if you have a 5A fast charger and a 1.5A regular charger thats 6.5.. and some people are talking about using 10A.. its not rated for that, the connectors, the wires anything.. KS rates it at 5A max total.. you would probably be fine at 6.5A, probably... over a long period of time i cant say, but if you tried two fast chargers theres not a bad chance that youd melt something lol

btw here is something i clipped from another topic thats using the Z10 as an example.. it has a much more complicated monitoring system that will cut you off at 9A wont even let you do more than that but here is some observations from that one.. thats just the the Z10 for example, KS has nothing that will cut it off you will simply burn through something, same with gotway.. not sure about inmotion.. if KS says 5A is what the max should be i wouldnt want to be the one to discover why they claim that lol

• The BMS has thermal cutoff, letting it draw a lot of power (W) and it will get too hot and will cutoff charging
• At 500W/8.5A I can charge for about 30 minutes before cutoff
• At 470W/8A ~1 hour before cutoff
• At 440W/7.5A it will fully charge and balance the pack

so as an example for the Z10 (maybe KS is better, but its probably worse) at 8A it would overheat and cut off after 1 hour, so if the 16X was equivalent in all manners then after an hour and a bit you may start to smell some smoke lol.. perhaps kingsong is just being super conservative saying 5A but again, im not wanting to test it lol.. like most things, probably fine for a little bit you just want a top up or something no problem, but if your battery is nearly dead and youre basically charging from like 5% to 100% 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Rywokast

[Tadas]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

Long story very short: high risk of getting inbalance in battery packs leading to a early battery failure and possibly faceplant when pushing battery for power.

 

The BMS does the balancing by passive bleeding off the highest voltage cells. It takes a long time (2.5 hours for my KS18XL to balance just 1% imbalance). Fast charging should be fine as long as people leave their wheels plugged in for 1 extra hour after charging. Or 20-30 hours fully charging each ~10 cycles? Most users probably don't do that, so they develop inbalance in the cells.

I think people underestimate how much time it takes to balance through the tiny bleed current in the BMS. 2.5 hours to rebalance 1%. 25 hours to rebalance 10%.

[ir_fuel]

1 minute ago, Tadas said:

The BMS does the balancing by passive bleeding off the highest voltage cells. It takes a long time (2.5 hours for my KS18XL to balance just 1% imbalance). Fast charging should be fine as long as people leave their wheels plugged in for 1 extra hour after charging. Or 20-30 hours fully charging each ~10 cycles? Most users probably don't do that, so they develop inbalance in the cells.

I think people underestimate how much time it takes to balance through the tiny bleed current in the BMS. 2.5 hours to rebalance 1%. 25 hours to rebalance 10%.

That still doesn't explain how using 2 different chargers (with different max outputs) could imbalance your batteries.

[Rywokast]

1 minute ago, Tadas said:

The BMS does the balancing by passive bleeding off the highest voltage cells. It takes a long time (2.5 hours for my KS18XL to balance just 1% imbalance). Fast charging should be fine as long as people leave their wheels plugged in for 1 extra hour after charging. Or 20-30 hours fully charging each ~10 cycles? Most users probably don't do that, so they develop inbalance in the cells.

I think people underestimate how much time it takes to balance through the tiny bleed current in the BMS. 2.5 hours to rebalance 1%. 25 hours to rebalance 10%.

that is definitely something they should include in the manual im assuming most people dont have a clue in hell about that and just unplug it when its green..

[Tadas]

Just now, ir_fuel said:

That still doesn't explain how using 2 different chargers (with different max outputs) could imbalance your batteries. 

They wouldn't, as been said, the charging ports are connected in parallel.

Imbalance occurs naturally with charging/discharging, not because of chargers.

[Rywokast]

Just now, ir_fuel said:

That still doesn't explain how using 2 different chargers (with different max outputs) could imbalance your batteries.

it shouldnt.. a problematic cell/wonky bms or improper charging over a long period should be the only thing that could cause that.. ive heard a couple cases of it happening once on a ninebot where the system refused to work because it detected the bad cell, and one i believe was a KS18L was likely a problem with the BMS believe he did actually faceplant

[ir_fuel]

Yeah that's my point. But someone here claims it does  

[Michael Tucker]

5 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

it does yes.. nothing inherently wrong with it at all.. i think kingsong advises against it simply because it was not built to withstand more than 5 amps.. if you have a 5A fast charger and a 1.5A regular charger thats 6.5.. and some people are talking about using 10A.. its not rated for that, the connectors, the wires anything.. KS rates it at 5A max total.. you would probably be fine at 6.5A, probably... over a long period of time i cant say, but if you tried two fast chargers theres not a bad chance that youd melt something lol

 

Tina from KS wrote that she "asked their engineers and they said 10A max charge rated". Although I agree with you that 10A is too much. I recently took apart some of my wheels and charging ports and while the battery packs and Mainboard are well built, the back of the charging ports have weak soldering and thin wires. Best to play it safe when charging...5A max at 84V.

FYI to everyone: Amps x Volts equals Watts. Higher watts equals higher heat. Standard charger has 1.5 Amps x 84V equals 125 watts through the charging port and back wires. Two standard chargers puts 250 watts through. A Fast charger will put 420 watts though...careful now. At 6.5amps thats 545 watts. The power and heat is very high, so high two chargers are safer than one, yet the back of the charging ports are combined before they go to mainboard or BMS for power routing. Don't leave unattended.

[Rywokast]

16 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Tina from KS wrote that she "asked their engineers and they said 10A max charge rated".

oh really? i never saw that before.. hmm interesting, i dont believe her lol.. or maybe they are on paper but i have seen the thin af wiring and poor solder jobs and have actually seen pictures of the shell warping around the charging port or the port popping right out because it got so hot it melted the glue.. id rather not burn my house down thx.. i cant say i have a source for the 5A i said but i swear i saw someone from KS say that, but perhaps it was just speculation i cant remember tbh.. i read on here too much to be able to sort everything out in my head xD i wouldnt personally feel good at charging over 5A especially from an extremely low battery

Edited August 5, 2019 by Rywokast

[Azze80]

5 hours ago, Rywokast said:

np.. yea its pretty cool.. its one of the only watches you can see in direct sunlight.. in fact you can see it even better in direct sunlight lol.. it also does have a backlight if you need it and the battery lasts a ludicrously long time since it uses an e paper like screen not the lcd or oled of other watches.. i got a cheap metal band from amazon because its magnetic so really easy to take on and off and also i dont want to use a watch strap that someone else used

Do you have a link to where you bought it?

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

That still doesn't explain how using 2 different chargers (with different max outputs) could imbalance your batteries.

I do not know exactly how the charging cycle and ports work.

Only that Tina from KS commented on this last year and it was dicuss again when KS18XL came out. Going into the early part of this thread you will see I asked about charging and @US69 responded.

Sorry for being friendly and bringing this to your attention. 

There are many things that I think should be in the manual but are left out. 

Since you don't like in the country where I ride, I can't care less of what you do with your wheel. But I hope we don't read about an incident that could have been avoided if only people knew better. Like a high-speed wheel cutout or a burning wheel during charging. EUC riding is still too young a tech to get away with such stories in the news.

[Rehab1]

7 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Where?  I didn’t see Marty’s answer. How about this one?

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BKEQBI0/ref=psdc_7939901011_t3_B0106IS5XY

Thanks for the find. I lost my other pebble last year so I just ordered this model once I read the specs. The price is good and it’s compatible with IOS. 

 

[Rywokast]

1 hour ago, Azze80 said:

Do you have a link to where you bought it?

 

10 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Thanks for the find. I lost my other pebble last year so I just ordered this model once I read the specs. The price is good and it’s compatible with IOS. 

yea it was the ebay link i posted here https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Pebble-Time-Smartwatch-Black/223564391114?hash=item340d79e2ca:g:go8AAOSw2QtdERf9 that ones a rip off rehab the pebble time is much better and its cheaper from this lot on ebay.. seems they only have a few left though

[Unventor]

Interesting how this turned into a pebble thread now. 

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

Only that Tina from KS commented on this last year and it was dicuss again when KS18XL came out. Going into the early part of this thread you will see I asked about charging and @US69 responded.

I'd assume this is the post were you asked?

On 7/12/2019 at 9:15 PM, Unventor said:

A question about charging KS16X. @US69 are you able to get Kingsong to confirm that a 5A charger (300w) is "safe" to use with a KS16X, as in it is designed to handle this?

I seen a lot of debate on this on a Russian forum. @EcoDrift seem to strongly recommend not to do this. However @Jason McNeil provide 5A charges to pre-order buyers. I understand there is a risk by going higher amps when charging, but I already have 2 original KS18L chargers 1,5A (130w). Also 1radWerkstatt make high powered charges.

1radwerkstatt had (?has?) the note on his webpage that for the high powered chargers the wirings and connectors have to be "reinforced".

@US69 just responded a couple of posts later that such a 5A charger is ok.

I did not find the part regarding different chargers and balancing. ... There are so many pages in this topic... would be interesting if there is some explanation included, but not as much to make me browse 96 pages...

 

[Unventor]

8 minutes ago, Chriull said:

I'd assume this is the post were you asked?

1radwerkstatt had (?has?) the note on his webpage that for the high powered chargers the wirings and connectors have to be "reinforced".

@US69 just responded a couple of posts later that such a 5A charger is ok.

I did not find the part regarding different chargers and balancing. ... There are so many pages in this topic... would be interesting if there is some explanation included, but not as much to make me browse 96 pages...

 

This is the basis of my question early in the thread. As far as I can tell the replies given about the KS16X 5A should be ok.

Note read on from the post I linked. You find more details why, how, and so on...

As from what I gathered @EcoDrift do not recommend 5A charging. I can only read their stuff through webtranslation as I don't read/write/speak  russian language.

[Patton250]

5 hours ago, Rywokast said:

that is definitely something they should include in the manual im assuming most people dont have a clue in hell about that and just unplug it when its green..

 Why wouldn’t people unplug it when it turns green? I know “Mr. I hate my 16 X” up above said the same thing but I don’t understand.  I unplug all my PEV’s when the charger turns green.   Besides unless you’re standing right there when it does turn green how would you know when it did?  What exactly are the consequences of unplugging it after it turns green? Lol

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

Interesting how this turned into a pebble thread now. 

 .

Edited August 5, 2019 by Patton250