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KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)


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12 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I rather be in control of the wheel.  What you seem to be describing is if you are inept you want the wheel to save you by staying the course.  If you want to avoid sudden movements at higher speeds, lower the tire pressure.  It gives you more control of the wheel.  There are many more cases where you need to suddenly move left or right to avoid obstacles.  Or to turn sharply at high speeds.  I've not yet been able to do the same level of turning with the 16X and these gyro inducing tires.

The other morning I was riding my daily commuter wheel (Inmotion V8) to the train and coming up to a street crossing, I slowed down and motioned to a guy waiting to pull out in his car to make sure he saw me. He waved back at me and motioned for me to come on. I speed up and at the last moment he decide to pull out. I was within 3 feet of going in front of is care when he did this. There was no way I could stop in time. I was able to do a hard turn and then walk off the wheel to avoid getting hit. If I didn't have that kind of control to turn, it wouldn't have came out good for me.

So yes, I agree, control of the wheel can keep you alive. Not trusting someone in a much bigger vehicle will too. Lesson learned.

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1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

I rather be in control of the wheel.  What you seem to be describing is if you are inept you want the wheel to save you by staying the course.  If you want to avoid sudden movements at higher speeds, lower the tire pressure.  It gives you more control of the wheel.  There are many more cases where you need to suddenly move left or right to avoid obstacles.  Or to turn sharply at high speeds.  I've not yet been able to do the same level of turning with the 16X and these gyro inducing tires.

You're going to hate it until you put in 500 miles and learn to appreciate it. Give it a fair chance :)

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I'd started with my tire pressure at 30psi. I've not ridden much because of the tilt back or tilt forward that I get every few minutes, but tonight after getting some pretty low speed wobbles, I stopped and let some air out.

It turned out I was way under-inflated (like 10psi!), but the wobbles completely went away. I've now inflated to 20psi. I'll try again tomorrow.

I won't be riding much until my tilt back gets resolved, but at least I know that I'm going to want a low tire pressure.

My riding weight is probably well under 140lbs.

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10 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

I'd started with my tire pressure at 30psi. I've not ridden much because of the tilt back or tilt forward that I get every few minutes, but tonight after getting some pretty low speed wobbles, I stopped and let some air out.

It turned out I was way under-inflated (like 10psi!), but the wobbles completely went away. I've now inflated to 20psi. I'll try again tomorrow.

I won't be riding much until my tilt back gets resolved, but at least I know that I'm going to want a low tire pressure.

My riding weight is probably well under 140lbs.

Very confusing. You started at 30psi, but it was really 10psi? What's your body weight?

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26 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

I'd started with my tire pressure at 30psi. I've not ridden much because of the tilt back or tilt forward that I get every few minutes, but tonight after getting some pretty low speed wobbles, I stopped and let some air out.

It turned out I was way under-inflated (like 10psi!), but the wobbles completely went away. I've now inflated to 20psi. I'll try again tomorrow.

I won't be riding much until my tilt back gets resolved, but at least I know that I'm going to want a low tire pressure.

My riding weight is probably well under 140lbs.

doesnt the tire say right on it that you shouldnt go below 35 psi? this is not a suggestion for comfort but so you dont get a pinch flat or damage the rim.. i cant ever imagine going below 40 psi and ive only been that low once on a wheel that had a slow leak, felt horrible and mushy.. i always pump to 50-60 depending on the tire size and im 120 lbs.. i firmly believe that anyone can get used to any tire pressure its simply a matter of just that, getting used to it.. you get better mileage, its more nimble, basically no chance of a pinch flat or bottoming out when hitting a curb really no downsides besides it feeling weird when youre not used to it.. the only possible benefit of low tire pressure is it being more comfortable when youre used to it, but thats only because youre used to it, im used to high pressure so for me anything below 40 feels awful. btw i dont think wobbles are related to tire pressure but rider comfort.. some people get them when riding new wheels because theyre not comfortable on it yet, some people dont.. i guarantee any wheel at any tire pressure someone will get wobbles on it while others wont because if youre susceptible to them and not used to the wheel, then it can happen.. i havent experienced wobbles on any wheel the phenomenon seems alien to me

Edited by Rywokast
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38 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Very confusing. You started at 30psi, but it was really 10psi? What's your body weight?

As I said, I left out some air while on the ride (and without a pressure gauge). I ended up letting too much out.

My body weight is about 128lbs.

Edited by Jon Stern
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2 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

As I said, I left out some air while on the ride (and without a pressure gauge). I ended up letting too much out.

My body weight is about 128lbs.

That makes more sense.

In other words:

  • 30 psi => low speed wobbles
  • 10 psi => no wobbles

Your body weight: 128 lbs.

I'm at 138 lbs, and have tried 20 - 30 PSI. I get wobbles at 20+ mph, but it's probably me.

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39 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

doesnt the tire say right on it that you shouldnt go below 35 psi? this is not a suggestion for comfort but so you dont get a pinch flat or damage the rim.. i cant ever imagine going below 40 psi and ive only been that low once on a wheel that had a slow leak, felt horrible and mushy.. i always pump to 50-60 depending on the tire size and im 120 lbs.. i firmly believe that anyone can get used to any tire pressure its simply a matter of just that, getting used to it.. you get better mileage, its more nimble, basically no chance of a pinch flat or bottoming out when hitting a curb really no downsides besides it feeling weird when youre not used to it.. the only possible benefit of low tire pressure is it being more comfortable when youre used to it, but thats only because youre used to it, im used to high pressure so for me anything below 40 feels awful. btw i dont think wobbles are related to tire pressure but rider comfort.. some people get them when riding new wheels because theyre not comfortable on it yet, some people dont.. i guarantee any wheel at any tire pressure someone will get wobbles on it while others wont because if youre susceptible to them and not used to the wheel, then it can happen.. i havent experienced wobbles on any wheel the phenomenon seems alien to me

Oh, I strongly suspect that the low speed wobbles are largely due to me, not the wheel. Although lots of other people have reported needing to run the 16x at very low pressures (that was feedback from the NYC proto ride).

I suspect I'll be able to raise the pressure once I get used to the wheel, but given that it's currently close to unrideable due to crazy tilt back or tilt forward every few minutes, getting used to it is going require some kind of fix.

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11 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

Oh, I strongly suspect that the low speed wobbles are largely due to me, not the wheel. Although lots of other people have reported needing to run the 16x at very low pressures (that was feedback from the NYC proto ride).

I suspect I'll be able to raise the pressure once I get used to the wheel, but given that it's currently close to unrideable due to crazy tilt back or tilt forward every few minutes, getting used to it is going require some kind of fix.

Use the bypass trick: in the Kingsong app, set alarm level 1 and 2 to 0mph. Set 3rd alarm and tiltback to something reasonable. 

You're welcome :)

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33 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Use the bypass trick: in the Kingsong app, set alarm level 1 and 2 to 0mph. Set 3rd alarm and tiltback to something reasonable. 

You're welcome :)

Asking for a friend... Is 50kph on V1.01 reasonable?  :shock2: :w00t2:

 

I hit the tiltback so hard today it logged a top speed of 52.5kph (32.5mph) hahaha

Edited by BleepBloopBlop
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43 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Use the bypass trick: in the Kingsong app, set alarm level 1 and 2 to 0mph. Set 3rd alarm and tiltback to something reasonable. 

You're welcome :)

My issue is random tilt that occurs at any, even zero, speed. I have the alarms set up as you suggest, but that's nothing to do with the random tilt issue.

Edited by Jon Stern
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11 minutes ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Asking for a friend... Is 50kph on V1.01 reasonable?  :shock2: :w00t2:

 

I hit the tiltback so hard today it logged a top speed of 52.5kph (32.5mph) hahaha

Do you have the oscillation at 45kph?

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9 hours ago, houseofjob said:

What the heck? Why did KS send me an altogether different model of this no-name brand, if it's not gonna be production? Are they just picking random tires out of a pile?

According to Milli from KS, there were probably bottlenecks in the supply of tyres and therefore another CX tyre was used. Both CX tyres were reportedly tested and, unlike the pre-production model, there were no oscillations. 

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22 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

It’s not a gyro sensor issue, but (at least a feeling that is reminicient of) the physical gyrosgopic effect. It is the resistance to axial turning when an object spins.

You completely missed the point of my post.

Check on what I replied ;) 

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145lbs with gear. I ride an MSX. I prefer my tyre at 19 PSI. Comparable for a Nikola or 16X would be 19/17*19 = 21.2 PSI as they are both 3" wide. I would err on the high side.
Have been on a V10F with 23 PSI and it was perfect.
Getting a pinch flat would be quite an achievement. I average ~16wh/km = ~100km.
I should do some slow motion clips riding over roots, curbs, etc to see how it deforms.
20 seconds into the clip (time code embedded)

Also regarding the gyro effect on turning which is also very prominent on the MSX... it just adds to the fun.
You are either inept at turning the wheel or inept at riding straight. :efee612b4b:

 

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6 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

When will the firmware update that fixes the oscillation come out? What FW version is it? This needs to happen soon so people see if all those possibly-related pedal problems go away then.

Why are some of us not experiencing any problems what so ever on the firmware the 16X came with and others are???? This is very confusing. 

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6 hours ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Day 4 Update:

Did 56 miles today. Would keep going but I have barely seen my GF this week so I cut my group ride short to spend some time with her. I'm now at 221 miles total on my 16X. Lucky for me my GF has to work tomorrow so I'm going to try and set a PR of 80 miles and break the 300 mile mark on day 5. Had a great time with the group ride in Portland. I let all the EUC guys have a go on my 16x and it was really well received. My favorite wheel I rode was a Z10. It was the most comparable to my 16X. I just feel my wheel does everything I want better. More range, higher top speed, stronger acceleration, lights, stereo, better trolley. I'm not shitting on the Z10. Is a great ride for sure! 

 

 

 

Hope your GF doesn't read your forum posts. 

:P

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41 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Why are some of us not experiencing any problems what so ever on the firmware the 16X came with and others are???? This is very confusing. 

Different rider behavior I guess. Some people ride less "extreme" and may not entice that oscillation even if it might be lurking in the background. And maybe there are subtle differences between boards (gyro sensors) that somehow have an influence. Or is it the tire pressure? Rider weight? Not the first mysterious head scratcher in this world of EUCs.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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38 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Different rider behavior I guess. Some people ride less "extreme" and may not entice that oscillation even if it might be lurking in the background. And maybe there are subtle differences between boards (gyro sensors) that somehow have an influence. Or is it the tire pressure? Rider weight? Not the first mysterious head scratcher in this world of EUCs.

Well I het mine pretty hard. Not Kuji hard but hard. The only time it acted up was in the beginning before I got the alarms and speed settings right. After that I only got tilt back at 31 MPH and when the battery got below 30% or so. Other then that it acts and rides fine. How could so many people have different board and gyro sensors? 

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