Ninebot One Z : Z6-Z8-Z10

[Evel_Knievel]

Brings up another point...how do you air up the tire? Always thought the ninebot one E+ design complicated that task slightly. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Evel_Knievel
Grammer

[houseofjob]

10 hours ago, Hatchet said:

I have a question about the Z series regarding the shell and off road. if you look at the shell under the pedals, it's rounded and comes down to around 5 cm above the ground. This seems like bad design because if you are doing off road, roots, potholes, drops, etc, it looks to me like you are going to land and hit the shell a lot. 

This is a fair point, as the S2/S1/A1 has the same circular bottom enclosure and tended to pick-up a lot of dirt and debris.

But on the flip-side, if you care about the longevity of your EUC, you probably aren't doing drop offs / dropdowns, as the Achille's heel of all wheels are the axles (read: axle breakage).

[houseofjob]

4 hours ago, Evel_Knievel said:

Brings up another point...how do you air up the tire? Always thought the ninebot one E+ design complicated that task slightly. 

Think that's partly the reason for the front/back exposed design.

[Scatcat]

10 hours ago, Hatchet said:

I have a question about the Z series regarding the shell and off road. if you look at the shell under the pedals, it's rounded and comes down to around 5 cm above the ground. This seems like bad design because if you are doing off road, roots, potholes, drops, etc, it looks to me like you are going to land and hit the shell a lot. 

Maybe the tire is really hard inflated? It makes more sense to me to have that bottom shell on the sides be straight cut, to allow the tire maximum room to absorb shock.

I have watched the video a few times of the two riders in the woods, and I see some very close-to-smash landings, plus the pedals themselves seem to low for off road, but thats off topic.

If you came down hard and the sides made contact with the ground the shock energy would probably propel you off the pedals. Then I think, this is too obvious they must have thought of it. I'd have the bottom cut straight across just under the pedals.

I doubt that will be a very big problem. The thing with a wider tyre is that the deformation becomes less of an issue. Compare to a typical car/van with tyre pressures in the range of 2.2-2.8 bars. In general those tyres deform LESS than the single tyre of a EUC, even though our pressures are in the 2.7-3.0 bar range and the weight on a single wheel of a car is considerably higher.

Now, the risk, and that is very present in the current lot of EUCs, is that you hit an obstacle while turning. If you come at a curb while the wheel is leaning far to one side, the amount of deformation needed to hit the rim is rather shorter than normal, and of course if you have overhang that may hit the obstacle too. One of my falls was clipping the side of a curb with my pedal while turning, a few microseconds later I was a meter in front of the EUC still going forward... Looking back on that accident (I've inspected the curb I clipped), it wouldn't have done a fart in a storm of a difference if my pedals where an inch higher. The whole geometry of an EUC means you better watch out for obstacles that come to close to the sides.

[houseofjob]

6 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

I doubt that will be a very big problem. The thing with a wider tyre is that the deformation becomes less of an issue. Compare to a typical car/van with tyre pressures in the range of 2.2-2.8 bars. In general those tyres deform LESS than the single tyre of a EUC, even though our pressures are in the 2.7-3.0 bar range and the weight on a single wheel of a car is considerably higher.

Cars and vans have shocks and distribute their weight across 4 wheels, no? 

[Scatcat]

37 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Cars and vans have shocks and distribute their weight across 4 wheels, no? 

The shocks doesn't contain anti-gravity devices, do they? 

And 3-4000 lbs on four wheels is still 750-1K lbs per wheel, which is a "bit more" than a EUC with rider on top.

But sure, the shocks will of course lessen the transients of tyre deformation.

[novazeus]

if the trolley handle doubles as a kickstand, that’s good.

[Cloud]

12 hours ago, Hatchet said:

if you look at the shell under the pedals, it's rounded and comes down to around 5 cm above the ground. This seems like bad design because if you are doing off road, roots, potholes, drops, etc, it looks to me like you are going to land and hit the shell a lot. 

I also share this concern. I don’t think dropping down from a curb etc would be an issue, you wouldn’t hit the shell , but if you are on uneven ground , with little potholes, cavities, etc, especially when turning/ leaning on one side, the surface( or potential objects , like small rocks etc) can be located at higher elevation than the surface the tire touches and could potentially hit the shell. I am hoping ninebot tested it out, but in the other hand they don’t have the experience making high speed heavy duty wheels for rough terrain , they may still be in the mind set of a city wheel traveling on smooth asphalt, trying to adapt it for performance to meet the market, so who knows...

[Rehab1]

10 minutes ago, Cloud said:

I also share this concern. I don’t think dropping down from a curb etc would be an issue, you wouldn’t hit the shell , but if you are on uneven ground , with little potholes, cavities, etc, especially when turning/ leaning on one side, the surface( or potential objects , like small rocks etc) can be located at higher elevation than the surface the tire touches and could potentially hit the shell. I am hoping ninebot tested it out, but in the other hand they don’t have the experience making high speed heavy duty wheels for rough terrain , they may still be in the mind set of a city wheel traveling on smooth asphalt, trying to adapt it for performance to meet the market, so who knows...

12 hours ago, Hatchet said:

If you came down hard and the sides made contact with the ground the shock energy would probably propel you off the pedals. Then I think, this is too obvious they must have thought of it. I'd have the bottom cut straight across just under the pedals.

Being propelled off the pedals is a scary thought. I'm hoping the photo is just a perception issue and the shell's ground clearance is safely adequate for both off- roading and rough terrain.

[Evel_Knievel]

6 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Think that's partly the reason for the front/back exposed design.

I don’t see how you’d access the valve stem. Must be a window somewhere similar to the ninebot E+?

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

The most damage I've had to my Ninebot One shell is to the plastic part under pedals.  I agree that closing up the lower part there may create an unnecessary problem in some circumstances riding and inflating.  I dropped off a sharp sidewalk curb at an angle and clipped the shell.  Another time I was wanting to hop up a 2 inch rise of a sidewalk due to the asphalt settling down and bang hit the shell.   

BTW I still love the graphics on my Ninebot.  It just looks so cool.  

Edited April 8, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, Evel_Knievel said:

I don’t see how you’d access the valve stem. Must be a window somewhere similar to the ninebot E+?

Possibly (unfortunately I combed the demo model @CES for everything BUT this *smh).

But in pictures, it looks like how I used to fill my GT16 tire: via the valve peaking out the front or back access (9 and 3 o’clock respectively)

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

The most damage I've had to my Ninebot One shell is to the plastic part under pedals. 

Compliments of The VR Body Shop.  Wished it worked on my humerus.

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Rehab1

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

  Just like new!!! 

[dmethvin]

It's virtually like new! In that it is not really like new.

 

[Jason McNeil]

On 06/04/2018 at 2:51 AM, Scatcat said:

Numbers of course are just numbers. How the motor is wired for torque will affect the ride immensely. The ability of the firmware to not spike the current unneccesarily will affect range. The geometry of the tire, and the mechanical and electrical quality will affect the range too. The less of the power that goes into heat-generation, the better for range.

But for me to be a little more overwhelmed the specs for the Z10 SHOULD read:

2000W+/4000W motor.
56 kph/35 mph top speed.
Wires at AWG compatible with 6000W transient load.

I've had a couple exchanges about the motor wire gauge with my  9B contact. Been assured that this has been thoroughly tested, but I've been in this game long enough to know that you should never take a Manufacturer's word for it without seeing first-hand evidence for yourself. Expressed the concern that although some factory testers might have tried it out on some steep inclines, once a Wheel has been released into the wild, there will inevitably be conditions under which the Engineers may not have envisioned—like a 150kg Rider pressing up a sustained 20 degree incline. 

Expecting our first preproduction testing sample in the next 3-4 weeks from now, will be in a position to report back on the motor wiring situation. 

One also has to understand that Z series has been in Development for over two years; I suspect that the technical requirements were defined at that time. For a +$1b Company to take a punt on a 45kph Wheel is certainly brave, but what marginal benefit would there of adding an extra 10kph to the operating speed, when the speed risk relationship is exponential. Will there be a few adrenaline junkies who will preference a MSuper over a Z10 because of the extra speed? Perhaps, but most Z10 Buyers are likely looking at it's other characteristics. 

[that0n3guy]

If the v10 is sweet, will be tough to wait for z10 reviews for a month :).  

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

@Jason McNeil Do you have any concerns about dealing with Ninebot?  It always seems like with a larger company they tend to call the shots.  With their previous history of screwing dealers over, do you think it will be a rocky relationship dealing with parts sourcing, need for dealer servicing versus consumer repairing in the field, and warranty support issues? 

I suppose it's never possible to accurately predict the future, but do you think Ninebot has improved over time?  I still recall the posts from people trying to get support directly from the company and being forced to wait months for help. 

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[em1barns]

8 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

@Jason McNeil Do you have any concerns about dealing with Ninebot?  It always seems like with a larger company they tend to call the shots.  With their previous history of screwing dealers over, do you think it will be a rocky relationship dealing with parts sourcing, need for dealer servicing versus consumer repairing in the field, and warranty support issues? 

I suppose it's never possible to accurately predict the future, but do you think Ninebot has improved over time?  I still recall the posts from people trying to get support directly from the company and being forced to wait months for help. 

 

Cannot agree more. Very bad track to date. Plus their strategy has been less than clear. Successful e+, aborted p after a handful models in the wild. S2/a1 release in 14 inches with mixed reviews rather than upgrading e+ 16 inches, and most vendors dead afaik. French one just turned bankrupted, so no more distributor.

One Z track record is no better to date. It was announced with prices last August!!! Apart from Elon Musk, nobody makes product announcement with prices that much early, and even Elon gives an official release date.

Don’t get me wrong, I am still happy they haven’t given up the EUC market, but on my side it will take some time for my confidence in them to be restored. A great wheel and a clear distribution and support strategy would be a first step.

Edited April 9, 2018 by em1barns

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I wonder if Ninebot had improved their relationship with dealers instead of shafting them whether @FORWARD california would still be in business.  They were a good bunch of guys, but they had a Ninebot only product base.  It was a shock to dealers and buyers alike when Ninebot pulled their dealer support leaving everybody high and dry.  Do you know if Ian Sampson will be selling Ninebot Z's?

How does a dealer help offer support if they aren't an "official" dealer?  Will parts be freely available and warranty issues be handled quickly without needing to ship wheels back to specific locations?  Although I like Ninebot products in general, the way the company left dealers hanging left a bad taste in my mouth.  Although this Z looks interesting I wonder how well it will be supported if issues arise.

Anyone remember these threads:

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Kael]

Had been thinking of emailing Ian for an update on his thoughts about the One Z series and other wheels being released  imminently. They quietly introduced the ACM2, but I haven’t seen anything else on the site. 

[Jason McNeil]

16 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

@Jason McNeil Do you have any concerns about dealing with Ninebot?  It always seems like with a larger company they tend to call the shots.  With their previous history of screwing dealers over, do you think it will be a rocky relationship dealing with parts sourcing, need for dealer servicing versus consumer repairing in the field, and warranty support issues? 

It's a good question: there's been some negotiation on sourcing parts with the initial order. On a brand new model, it's almost impossible to predict what parts will be in the highest demand, because it takes time & a quantity of Wheels accumulating mileage to build up a statistical view of it's reliability. What I can say on meeting Ninebot in person, is that there's every indication that after all the resource & time invested into the Z so far, they're committed to making it a success.

[EUCMania]

Rumors on Chinese forum said that Z8 Z10 in "mass" production in June, consistent with @Jason McNeil's report of getting preproduction sample in May.

But, by that time, a tariff of 25% may be added. That will create a kind of job called smuggler.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by EUCMania

[Harold Farrenkopf]

16 hours ago, EUCMania said:

Rumors on Chinese forum said that Z8 Z10 in "mass" production in June, consistent with @Jason McNeil's report of getting preproduction sample in May.

But, by that time, a tariff of 25% may be added. That will create a kind of job called smuggler.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I'll just ship it to my home in Canada! LOL

Does anyone have info on how and where to buy it directly from China?

[meepmeepmayer]

3 minutes ago, Harold Farrenkopf said:

Does anyone have info on how and where to buy it directly from China?

See there.