2024 Begode Falcon - 14", Suspension, 100 V, 900 Wh, 1000 W Motor

[DavidB]

On 3/21/2024 at 4:09 AM, litewave said:

The Z10's [4"] tire is very low profile. I am hoping that the taller sidewall and 3.5" width will be much more forgiving, given that 3" tires are great.

I think CST make a 80/100-10 (3.1"x3.1"x10) tire which may be better. Same sidewall but less width. It seems Jason likes fat tires. (Read Marty, Dawn and Roger's comments on the 100/90-14 Jason put on the EB GT Pro). I read of an Italian who put a 3" on an MCM5 which worked great. I am not sure if this is much of an advance on the MCM5 and Tesla.  Not so discrete as those two for shopping etc but more current in styling so no doubt will do well.

[alcatraz]

How is it better than an S18? Hmm. Begode acceleration which is nice. But other than that?

I'm kind of tempted of modding an S18 with 50S cells or similar.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

How is it better than an S18? Hmm.

Suspension.

[litewave]

4 hours ago, DavidB said:

I think CST make a 80/100-10 (3.1"x3.1"x10) tire which may be better. Same sidewall but less width. It seems Jason likes fat tires. (Read Marty, Dawn and Roger's comments on the 100/90-14 Jason put on the EB GT Pro). I read of an Italian who put a 3" on an MCM5 which worked great. I am not sure if this is much of an advance on the MCM5 and Tesla.  Not so discrete as those two for shopping etc but more current in styling so no doubt will do well.

There is an entire thread about modding the MCM5 to accept a 3" tire.  @houseofjob, @Denny Paul, @EMA, and @Surfling have all described their work in detail on that topic. 

Downsizing the Falcon from 3.5" to 3" should be easy enough, but let's see how the wider tire performs first.

 

 

[Hellkitten]

I much prefer the wide tire on my m10-4 than the one on my ks18. If the profile is nice I bet it’s a decent ride. 

[Mono]

On 3/20/2024 at 7:31 PM, Funky said:

Beeps...  Or do you want tailback at first and then second alarm..  That would be stupid.

Or at least i think? Kingsong also had those alarms.. But you can change those in app. I bet it's that wheel default speed alarms. So if one isn't using app - they know what speed first/second alarm is set at. (Otherwise - who knows what speed one is going without app.. Just bought wheel and never connected to app.)

I don't want any beeps, really, please (beeps are a terrible user interface IMHO), but I do need a tiltback at 25km/h.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

I don't want any beeps, really, please (beeps are a terrible user interface IMHO), but I do need a tiltback at 25km/h.

Waa??? Why..? I have set my tiltback at 50km/h max speed my 18xl can go. (As i don't need/want to experience it.)

I can hear even EUCWorld those quiet beeps - which i use for my first alarm. And second alarm is voice + crazy loud beeps. (I have never missed the quiet beeps when i have my app running.) As for daily commutes - i never hear any alarms, because i'm going way slower. (I'm very good telling how fast i'm going by wind noise, or how fast object are going past me.) I don't even run the app on my daily commutes, default wheel alarm is set at 42km/h.

 

So in general - i don't experience any alarms at all. Doh i like those quiet beeps from EUCWorld. It let's me know i'm going 38km/h speeds - which i sometimes go at "fun" rides, when i'm more geared. Even then i'm mostly going 35km/h. Daily commutes 25km/h or under - no alarms at all.

 

Well i have heard Falcon uses that 80% tiltback that starts slowly and as you "overburden" the wheel - it get's more aggressive. (Don't remember the right 3 letters. *** tiltback.)

Edited March 22 by Funky

[Rihards]

On 2/26/2024 at 2:36 PM, Funky said:

More or less - delete the suspension. Add carry/trolley handle and make it weight 20kg instead of 25kg.. (25kg is way to heavy for small wheel. It's not our fault you wanted to make it all metal.. Small wheel don't need all metal build in my mind. Plastic is fine..)

And you have a WINNER!!!! 

 

Or if you can keep it at 20kg with suspension, sure you can add it..

Besides plastics, there exists nice alloys too, what make a much better weight/performance ratio.

[Funky]

4 hours ago, Rihards said:

Besides plastics, there exists nice alloys too, what make a much better weight/performance ratio.

Chau. 

Yeah i know that, but the cost will skyrocket dramatically.. Cheapest and somewhat light is still plastic - i think.

I would love extremely light wheel and i'm ready to pay a premium for that - if that wheel is built just right! (The carry/trolley handle not being afterthought..) But most people would want the cheapest thing they can get - doesn't matter that that cheap thing will break or are stupidly made in long run.. 

As i have said before - i don't look at price, i look at product first. Because if i don't like the product - how cheap it is won't change, what i don't like. Pay 10 fold and be satisfied. Or pay 1 fold and be unsatisfied..

Edited March 22 by Funky

[Funky]

Enough said in the video. Begode please FIX Falcon, A2+ carry handle..

 

I wonder if A2+ is that 40C motor, 900Wh, 45LBS non-suspension wheel. Hmm.. Hmm... Hint-Hint, Nudge-Nudge. 

Edited March 24 by Funky

[Asphalt]

An interesting stat is the width of the Falcon.
At 9.5-inches wide, it's 2-inches wider than the OG Sherman.
Another comparison is the InMotion V8S at 5.8-inches wide.

Wide wheels are a consequence of wide tires and positioning battery packs on the sides.
The benefit is a lower centre of gravity and a more stable ride.
The drawbacks are a wheel that is harder to mount, control with one leg, and reduced nimbleness.

On large, heavy performance wheels it makes sense to keep the centre of gravity as low as possible and have a wide tire for control and stability at high speed.

On small wheels, short and fat doesn't make as much sense.

• You need at least a calf-height EUC body for ease of mounting and single-legged control.
• Narrow wheels are easier to control with one leg because your foot is closer to the saggital axis
• Small wheels should be nimble to better integrate into micromobility scenarios. 

It's true that wider tires are easier to learn and ride on, but the tradeoff is that they add weight and reduce nimbleness.

I'm sure the short, fat and heavy Falcon will find an audience, but perhaps they should rename it to the... 
Begode Borb

 

 

Edited March 25 by Asphalt
spelling

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Asphalt said:

An interesting stat is the width of the Falcon.
At 9.5-inches wide, it's 2-inches wider than the OG Sherman.
Another comparison is the InMotion V8S at 5.8-inches wide.

Wide wheels are a consequence of wide tires and positioning battery packs on the sides.
The benefit is a lower centre of gravity and a more stable ride.
The drawbacks are a wheel that is harder to mount, control with one leg, and reduced nimbleness.

On large, heavy performance wheels it makes sense to keep the centre of gravity as low as possible and have a wide tire for control and stability at high speed.

On small wheels, short and fat doesn't make as much sense.

• You need at least a calf-height EUC body for ease of mounting and single-legged control.
• Narrow wheels are easier to control with one leg because your foot is closer to the saggital axis
• Small wheels should be nimble to better integrate into micromobility scenarios. 

It's true that wider tires are easier to learn and ride on, but the tradeoff is that they add weight and reduce nimbleness.

I'm sure the short, fat and heavy Falcon will find and audience, but perhaps they should rename it to the 
Begode Borb

 

 

My 18xl is 7 inches wide and i have often thought that it's too narrow. Then again i'm a wide boy myself and like to ride wider. (I often place my feet on outer edge of pedal.) 9 inches would be welcomed.  

It's only 2 inches wider.. 180mm vs 240mm. 2 inches not that big of difference.  Ladies.  If nothing else most people after week of riding would get used to it. By nature people stand with wider stance. (Ofc if you're not ballerina.)   

As for wide tires.. Yes more narrow tire will be more nimble. Then again on these wider tires all tire doesn't touch the ground anyways.. Only the center. Pump more PSI in and you will be riding knife edge. Same as 2.125" tire. I personally welcome wider tires - because you can mount REAL M/C tire. Not some kid bicycle tire.

Also no-one is topping one going more narrow tire in future if one wants.. You can always go from 3.5" down to 2", but if wheel has 2" wide tire and has space only for 2" tire. You can't go bigger..

Edited March 25 by Funky

[Asphalt]

Wider tire and wider rims = Heavier wheel and greater rotational mass = Sluggish acceleration and lower energy efficiency

You can always get wider pedals if you want the option of a wider stance.

 

[Funky]

18 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

Wider tire and wider rims = Heavier wheel and greater rotational mass = Sluggish acceleration and lower energy efficiency

You can always get wider pedals if you want the option of a wider stance.

 

Yeah with enough money and special orders i could make/build my dream wheel.. I would not need to wait for manufacturers to finally build something decent.

I got M/C tubeless tire 1.5kg on my 18xl and it has 14" rim. And i have no issue with acceleration. Same for energy efficiency - i charge my wheel every second weekend. So i could care less about that.

Falcon being a 100V pocket rocket, acceleration should not be an issue what so ever.

Only thing i care about is weight. But same time i would gladly eat 1-2 kg for better rim and tire. And i think most people also would say the same. Tire is the main thing that is used in EUC, it touches the ground etc..

I want big booty tire and small battery pack.  Come fight me. I personally would want 18" wheel with 500Wh. But i know it won't happen. I can only hope for more wheels like A2 and Falcon coming in future. That are in 45lbs(20kg) weight and built/designed better.

Edited March 25 by Funky

[winterwheel]

The wider the better

[MadVlad]

The new handle layout looks very uncomfortable, even the thickness of the handle tells me its probably going to dig into your palm pretty badly if you try to lift it one-handed. I am very disappointed that they kept this design, they really should have used the A2 center handle design.

[eezo]

On 3/20/2024 at 12:27 PM, Ronin Ryder said:

Mini Extreme!! 

Don't give them any ideas on the naming

[eezo]

On 3/20/2024 at 12:42 PM, Funky said:

I still don't like it's 2 hand carry handle and weak trolley handle.

Nobody is mandating that it be carried by 2 handles. There are 2 carry handles for people who want to carry it by 2 hands. Either handle by itself is a one-handed carry handle. If you carry it by just the front handle, it will look like the image on the right. Where's the problem? The thin bar might be uncomfortable and that's legitimate, but I just don't get all the handle complaints. Why does it matter whether the carrying handle is centered or not when the wheel is standing upright? As soon as you pick absolutely anything up by 1 handle, thanks to gravity, the handle becomes centered. Of all the things to potentially complain about, this seems like the most ridiculous one. As soon as you pick the wheel up, it will be centered. The only difference is a 90 degree rotation of your wrist.

Edited March 26 by eezo

[Funky]

1 hour ago, eezo said:

Nobody is mandating that it be carried by 2 handles. There are 2 carry handles for people who want to carry it by 2 hands. Either handle by itself is a one-handed carry handle. If you carry it by just the front handle, it will look like the image on the right. Where's the problem? The thin bar might be uncomfortable and that's legitimate, but I just don't get all the handle complaints. Why does it matter whether the carrying handle is centered or not when the wheel is standing upright? As soon as you pick absolutely anything up by 1 handle, thanks to gravity, the handle becomes centered. Of all the things to potentially complain about, this seems like the most ridiculous one. As soon as you pick the wheel up, it will be centered. The only difference is a 90 degree rotation of your wrist.

First is wheeling wheel around unpowered.. Yes when i come home - i don't power on my 18xl, i simply push it to my stand from front door..

Second is - where's the power/lift switch? Do i need to lean down and press button each time i want to lift it? If the button was same design like A2 where you can power off motor with same hand you lift - that's different story.

Also as you mentioned the second picture becomes "centered" handle.. When you put wheel down on the ground, IF wheel doesn't engage the motor immediately - it will want to fall backwards and over.. Where if handle was right in middle, it still would sit balanced on ground, not wanting to fall over as soon as you put it on ground.

 

One of many examples: Each morning i pick up the wheel from stand unpowered, carry it down the staircase and down in front yard i put it on ground and power it on. Thanks to centered handle - it doesn't fall over while being unpowered. But Falcon.... As soon as i would place it on ground, it would want to fall over! I do hope it can be turned on while front being that high up (second picture). Otherwise i would need to place it on ground, then level it myself, and then turn it on..

 

Off-center handle vs centered handle, it may be small thing.. But in reality and daily use case  - IT'S VERY BIG DEAL!!!

 

Also as you said thin round bar - very good handle to carry.. Jesus. Thank God we got grip tapes.

Every manufacturer are overlooking the trolley/carry handles. In my mind it's second most important thing! Because you are using said handles to carry the dam thing! (First being waterproof.)

Edited March 26 by Funky

[eezo]

16 minutes ago, Funky said:

First is wheeling wheel around unpowered.. Yes when i come home - i don't power on my 18xl, i simply push it to my stand from front door..

Second is - where's the power/lift switch? Do i need to lean down and press button each time i want to lift it? If the button was same design like A2 where you can power off motor with same hand you lift - that's different story.

Also as you mentioned the second picture becomes "centered" handle.. When you put wheel down on the ground, IF wheel doesn't engage the motor immediately - it will want to fall backwards and over.. Where if handle was right in middle, it still would sit balanced on ground, not wanting to fall over as soon as you put it on ground.

 

One of many examples: Each morning i pick up the wheel from stand unpowered, carry it down the staircase and down in front yard i put it on ground and power it on. Thanks to centered handle - it doesn't fall over while being unpowered. But Falcon.... As soon as i would place it on ground, it would want to fall over! I do hope it can be turned on while front being that high up (second picture). Otherwise i would need to place it on ground, then level it myself, and then turn it on..

 

Off-center handle vs centered handle, it may be small thing.. But in reality and daily use case  - IT'S VERY BIG DEAL!!!

 

Also as you said thin round bar - very good handle to carry.. Jesus. Thank God we got grip tapes.

Every manufacturer are overlooking the trolley/carry handles. In my mind it's most important thing! Because you are using said handles to carry the dam thing!

You consistently have extremely narrow requirements that apply to basically just you, which isn't really a basis for mass-market production design. There are some good points of course that in a best case scenario would be incorporated into the design, but I don't think you realize the degree to which your million requirements are not at all representative of the average EUC buyer.

[Funky]

8 minutes ago, eezo said:

average EUC buyer.

Not needing to carry the wheel ever and being happy with 150lbs wheel.  Oh and it needing to go fast as possible and have endless range.

America Fuck Yeah!

Edited March 26 by Funky

[Funky]

18 minutes ago, eezo said:

You consistently have extremely narrow requirements that apply to basically just you.

Sure.. We are talking about somewhat smaller EUC right? Not one of those monster EUC's.. Smaller wheels don't need to go fast as possible and have very big range. Their selling point is ease of carrying/transporting it around.. And for that a very good handle is a MUST! Same for lift switch - that needs to be built in said handle. Not somewhere under EUC..

Try thinking more about people who buy V8/V5/Teslas/KS14/KS16/Mten4/A2.. Why do people buy them in first place?

Edited March 26 by Funky

[slippyfeet]

I’m keeping an eye on this wheel as more production info shows up in the next month or so before I put in a preorder- preliminary assumption for me is I’ll be disappointed with the range, likely 15 ‘good’ miles before safety margins kick in. Bouncing between 18XL and an S16 pro, I can feel the -20km (12mi.) penalty as I get a lowered speed cap at 26-28 miles of riding (I’m 140lbs). My batch 1 mten4 lives in my car as it’s used for chores and yard work, but could be replaced with this or A2+ for casual lunch meetups in town.

Edited March 26 by slippyfeet

[eezo]

8 minutes ago, Funky said:

Sure.. We are talking about somewhat smaller EUC right? Not one of those monster EUC's.. Smaller wheels don't need to go fast as possible and have very big range. Their selling point is ease of carrying/transporting it around.. And for that a very good handle is a MUST! Same for lift switch - that needs to be built in said handle. Not somewhere under EUC..

Try thinking more about people who buy V8/V5/Teslas/KS14/KS16.. Why do people buy them in first place?

Per my previous comment, like I said, you made some good points. But when you're talking about use cases like every day wheeling your unpowered EUC from a door to a stand, you have to realize that's a ridiculously niche scenario that applies to basically just you and maybe 1 or 2 other people, right?

Edited March 26 by eezo

[Dan Hillary]

3 hours ago, eezo said:

Per my previous comment, like I said, you made some good points. But when you're talking about use cases like every day wheeling your unpowered EUC from a door to a stand, you have to realize that's a ridiculously niche scenario that applies to basically just you and maybe 1 or 2 other people, right?

He's got like...WAY more time on his hands than you do. You can't fix someone who likes the sound of their own voice.

I'll be putting in my preorder as soon as ewheels' PayPal integration is back up and running and we've got a video of the new prototype. I'll be powering it off and picking it up with one hand to bring it up stairs, and I'll be sitting on it while riding down the sidewalk, daily. Everyone in this topic who repeatedly states these use cases are impossible are welcome to figuratively stick their fingers in their ears. And eyes.