2024 Begode Falcon - 14", Suspension, 100 V, 900 Wh, 1000 W Motor

[Asphalt]

Sorry to derail the Falcon conversation even further, but if Begode is actually taking feedback from this forum...

 

I'm not a big fan of copying the design of larger wheels and just shrinking them down.
Smaller wheels have different use-cases and should be ergonomically designed with those use-cases in mind.

• a small wheel doesn't have the expectation of seated riding
• a small wheel doesn't need pads to leverage leaning force
• a light wheel does not need a 2-handed carry handle
• a light wheel that is carry-able with one hand, should have a spin-kill button built into the handle
• a light wheel that is carry-able with one hand, should not have things sticking out from the side (pads, pedals) that impede your walking while carrying

 

When it comes to trolley design, in my opinion, all trolley handles should be able to trolley and maneuver the wheel when powered off. This means that the axis of the trolley should go through the wheel's centre of gravity. It also means that the trolley needs to be strong enough to manipulate the wheel's weight.

 

[MadVlad]

I would rather have a one handed handle right in the middle of the wheel, however, I am able to lift 55 pounds with one hand, I would imagine there are many people that would not be able to, after all thats like a large bag of concrete. The ideal solution would have both, a center handle, and the front/back handles that function as bumpers as well. The centered trolley handle is always good.

[Funky]

SEE 3 people who actually want smaller wheels are saying CENTERED ONE-HANDED CARRY HANDLE...  With motor kill button built in the said handle.

Not taking this input from riders, who actually use smaller wheels would be a big mistake. 

 

Edited February 29 by Funky

[Dan Hillary]

33 minutes ago, Funky said:

SEE 3 people who actually want smaller wheels are saying CENTERED ONE-HANDED CARRY HANDLE...  With motor kill button built in the said handle.

Not taking this input from riders, who actually use smaller wheels would be a big mistake. 

 

I'm fine with an off-center carry handle. Power the wheel off, grab the front with one hand, lift up the stairs. Power back on. Any further and you'll be trollying it.

I'll absolutely be sitting on this wheel. All the time. It's flat on top, couldn't be better. 

[MadVlad]

59 minutes ago, Dan Hillary said:

I'm fine with an off-center carry handle. Power the wheel off, grab the front with one hand, lift up the stairs. Power back on. Any further and you'll be trollying it.

I'll absolutely be sitting on this wheel. All the time. It's flat on top, couldn't be better. 

Unless you are something like 5 ft tall this wheel isnt even going to reach your knee, Im not sure how you plan on sitting on it without adding a seat on top. Maybe Im wrong, but in the video the thing seemed very short.

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, MadVlad said:

Unless you are something like 5 ft tall this wheel isnt even going to reach your knee, Im not sure how you plan on sitting on it without adding a seat on top. Maybe Im wrong, but in the video the thing seemed very short.

I would concur - it's barely bigger than an A2, yet its pedals are much higher, so in addition to sitting incredibly low, your knees are gonna be almost up by your ears ! 

Edited February 29 by Cerbera

[Marty Backe]

14 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Begode just released this new pic of the updated handle on the Falcon. It can be removed for weight saving, replacing the original rear telescopic design. Next prototype iteration is March 15th, with first production to take place about 2 weeks later, early April.

I'm sure the design is already baked in, but ...

This trolley handle looks similar to the ET Max trolley handle, which is awful. It doesn't raise fully, feels like it could break if you try and raise it too much, and all the bits that your hand comes in contact with are small thin pieces of metal which dig into your hand. And if you have gloves on it's impossible to pull the handle up.

[Rawnei]

14 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm sure the design is already baked in, but ...

This trolley handle looks similar to the ET Max trolley handle, which is awful. It doesn't raise fully, feels like it could break if you try and raise it too much, and all the bits that your hand comes in contact with are small thin pieces of metal which dig into your hand. And if you have gloves on it's impossible to pull the handle up.

Called it 😜😂

 

 

[Funky]

9 hours ago, Dan Hillary said:

I'm fine with an off-center carry handle. Power the wheel off, grab the front with one hand, lift up the stairs. Power back on. Any further and you'll be trollying it.

I'll absolutely be sitting on this wheel. All the time. It's flat on top, couldn't be better. 

 

You know how stupid it would be to put it down while being off-centered??? Wheel would wanna fall over, etc.. It would be nightmare doing it on daily bases! It would be more or less like holding EUC by one pedal and trying to put it down on ground, GO TRY IT... And then come back and tell us how it went. Every time you put it on ground while being off-centered you would need to hold it there in place with other hand while you power it on.. But with centered handle - all weight is balanced. Wheel want's to stand up by itself almost. And having motor kill button built in handle, it would turn on as soon as you put in on ground.

And why would anyone want to sit on small/last mileage wheel? It's not a long rage wheel, where one wants to sit time to time. But on this thing..

I for one have never ridden seated. Simply because my rides are very short. And my 18xl got an option of a seat.

 

I for one don't trolley my wheel at all in summer. In winter time to time i need to step off and trolley it, when snow is too deep, or the snow slushy is way to bad. (This new handle looks fragile as F.. It would break very easily trying to push true snow.)

I mostly carry it. Like in train.. I turn it off and carry it in. Workplace ground full of metal shavings - carry. 3rd floor apartment - carry. Only in shops i trolley it, but i rarely go to shop with EUC.

And as @Cerbera said it's pedals are very high and size almost he same as A2. Good luck sitting on it. Kids maybe could do that. Or small people.  

 

 

 

BEGODE - PLEASE FIX THE DAM TROLLEY/CARRY HANDLE!!!

 

 

Edited February 29 by Funky

[Dan Hillary]

8 hours ago, MadVlad said:

Unless you are something like 5 ft tall this wheel isnt even going to reach your knee, Im not sure how you plan on sitting on it without adding a seat on top. Maybe Im wrong, but in the video the thing seemed very short.

Should I send you a video of me sitting on my mten3? This thing is taller, flatter and has suspension, it's great.

[Mono]

1 hour ago, Dan Hillary said:

hould I send you a video of me sitting on my mten3?

Seated riding would even be more interested then, I guess 

TBH, it doesn't look very appealing or practical to me on the Mten4:

 

[Dan Hillary]

4 minutes ago, Mono said:

Seated riding would even be more interested then, I guess 

TBH, it doesn't look very appealing or practical to me on the Mten4:

 

When you're sitting on a small wheel comfortably your feet shouldn't be flat. Notice his feet are flat because he's trying to lock into his massive power pads; that's why he looks awkward.

If you can crouch down next to a campfire, you can sit on a small unicycle.

Edited February 29 by Dan Hillary

[Mono]

17 minutes ago, Dan Hillary said:

If you can crouch down next to a campfire, you can sit on a small unicycle.

I can, I guess, I can even with flat feet. Yet, I do have a couch at my home for a reason: it's neither appealing nor practical to crouch down when I want to sit, neither at my home nor on an EUC and TBH, not even next to a campfire. That's just me, I guess, but I am always open to be convinced otherwise, for example by watching a better rider who looks comfortable when riding the Mten seated.

Edited February 29 by Mono

[Funky]

Yeah i don't wanna be a clown riding like that.. Otherwise i will need to start collecting money from laughing bystanders.  

[Mono]

On 2/26/2024 at 6:43 PM, Ronin Ryder said:

Non suspension wheels are outdated and a thing of the past.

This is true for mopeds and motorcycles, but it hasn't become true for bicycles (except downhill mountain bikes) and not even for electric bicycles, and I suspect it never will. For very similar reasons (the physiognomy of humans paired with physics), unsuspended lightweight EUCs will never be outdated as an EUC type which has a large number of potential customers. This is even more true for the other, lighter half (roughly) of the human population which is currently grossly underrepresented in the EUC user community, and kids.

The Mten, the KS14, the V8F and others don't cease to be praised by their customers and I'd make a pretty big bet that there will be no point in time in the next 25 years where I could not buy a brand new unsuspended EUC.

EDIT: just watched a random best ebikes of 2024 vid and saw 4 unsuspended bikes, 9 with a suspension fork and 2 with full suspension. Compared to EUC suspension, a suspension fork is a trivial standard component from the shelf, yet 25% of these ebikes didn't even have this. Similarly, the three long range ebikes shown here, one unsuspended, one full suspended, one with a suspension fork.

Edited February 29 by Mono

[MadVlad]

On 2/29/2024 at 5:12 AM, Dan Hillary said:

Should I send you a video of me sitting on my mten3? This thing is taller, flatter and has suspension, it's great.

I kind of want to see that, I picture something like this:

[the_deeb]

Not sure if Begode really is collecting feedback but, if so, count me as another +1 for a centered one-handed carry handle. It’s one of the things I really like about my current KS16X (that I’m definitely considering replacing with the Falcon).

Edited March 2 by the_deeb

[Funky]

7 hours ago, the_deeb said:

Not sure if Begode really is collecting feedback but, if so, count me as another +1 for a centered one-handed carry handle. It’s one of the things I really like about my current KS16X (that I’m definitely considering replacing with the Falcon).

And i'm thinking about replacing my 18xl which is generally the same thing as 16x.

Nothing can beat simply lifting it up one-handedly and placing it down without powering or pressing any buttons and is ready to ride.

I'm even okay to press a built in button, that Begodes wheels normally have like A2... Motor killing/lifting still can be done one-handedly, which i very much like.

 

 

4 people for centered handle already.. It bogles my mind how they can miss something so very important, especially for small/lighter wheel. A2 has centered handle. Same for Mten4. Even Mten4 Malnourished(mini) has a centered handle.

Edited March 2 by Funky

[Asphalt]

@Hsiang giving the lightweight segment some love @ 10:56:

A well-built iPS i5 capable of 30mph / 50kph would transform urban transportation.

Also props to @Ronin Ryder for talking about the importance of ergonomic features like trolley handles, non-blinding LED lights, and adjustable pedals.

Edited March 2 by Asphalt

[Funky]

9 hours ago, Asphalt said:

A well-built iPS i5 capable of 30mph / 50kph would transform urban transportation.

I like the idea of it's weight. But it simply is way too narrow.. Time to time i think even my 18xl is even to narrow. Compared to IPS i5 that would be about 3x more narrow. It would feel like you riding both feet/legs almost together. Even when regularly standing, you don't have feet/legs so close together. 

I think it would be horrible to ride IPS i5.. Wider stance always are better. It feels more natural, etc.. But then again some may enjoy more narrow wheel. I personally would hate it.

 

[Hellkitten]

22 minutes ago, Funky said:

Time to time i think even my 18xl is even to narrow. Compared to IPS i5 that would be about 3x more narrow. It would feel like you riding both feet/legs almost together.

I think it is. My ks18l and v11 are very narrow compared to my Sherman and RS. I’m liking a wider stance, I feel more stable and planted. 

[Planemo]

5 hours ago, Hellkitten said:

I feel more stable and planted. 

I agree, much prefer wider wheels but there is still a limit. Even at 6'1" (186cm) and with a fairly long inseam I find the EX30 for example just a touch too wide. Admittedly I am running stock CP pads, each of which have a centre section about 0.5cm wide but I find I need to position my feet slightly out on the pedals for my knees to get a little more comfort. It's certainly as wide a wheel as I would want to go. The Sherman OG was perfect though, as although prob not much less wider than the EX, it was of course noticeably shorter.

[Funky]

Well we don't really need to worry about small wheels being to wide.. As they normally aren't that wide to begin with. Doh Falcon looks like a chunker of a wheel.  How long - that wide.  I wonder how wider it is vs mine 18xl. 

I often also position my feet on the outer edge of wheel. Wheel body doesn't even touch my legs sides sometimes. Same time my feet is 1/3 over front of pedals (ankle level position with "L" brackets.), so i don't have to lean that much. Wheel goes forwards by itself.

[nothoughtsheadempty]

On 2/25/2024 at 11:21 PM, MadVlad said:

Fair enough, a suspension does add a bit of weight, my personal wheels I picked specifically for being portable while still being able to handle my size/weight. I would say that the V8S is almost a perfect non-suspension wheel for a lot of town tasks. The Eagle to be is a good step to getting Tesla V2/V3 power in a basic suspension wheel, yes its a bit heavy for portability, but its small, and its likely to be a smooth ride. If you just want a town wheel without suspension then a V8/V10 are hard to beat, they were some of Inmotion's best designs I think.

I forsee a suspension delete kit or a non-suspension Falcon option for those exact purposes. I do feel 100 more Wh and a 1.5Kw motor would have been better for this wheel. It’d be a true MCM5 successor.

[Funky]

18 minutes ago, nothoughtsheadempty said:

I forsee a suspension delete kit or a non-suspension Falcon option for those exact purposes. I do feel 100 more Wh and a 1.5Kw motor would have been better for this wheel. It’d be a true MCM5 successor.

1000W is just a number.. But same time people saying that it's more powerful and more torque than S18. Saying same performance as RS19 - are words spoken without any proof. 

We will see when first wheels will be in the wild, then we will see actual riders on this thing testing it's limits and what not. And does the 100Wh make big difference? People often charge their wheel about 50% anyways.. Not riding whole battery capacity. I myself can see charging this 900Wh wheel once a week.

 

I'm more interested in that 40C motor, 45lbs non-suspension wheel... To be honest. Because this one has no carry handle. And trolley handle went from decent to worse. 

Edited March 9 by Funky