Begode EX30 4000W 3600Wh 134v Suspension

[RagingGrandpa]

22 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

11 hours ago, wstuart said:

I notice that the boxes next to the s22 and Master are orange and red.  Does this mean that the s22 and Master boards are more likely to cutout or self destruct?

This method of evaluation started here: 
https://forum.electricunicycle.org/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=26282&content_commentid=411226

Each column in the table has a different implication: 

• "% of break. voltage" - this must never be close to 100%.
  V12 taught us what happens otherwise... it means chips are used beyond their voltage ratings, and will very likely fail (cutout).
   
• "% of package limit" - this is a thermal problem, risking that the legs of the chips may melt if this example load is sustained.
  Everywhere in this table, we assume an 'example load' of 200A motor current, which represents a typical 'limit' value for modern EUC's. It is a very high motor force, unlikely to be needed for more than brief bursts. 
  So exceeding 100% here can be OK for short durations.
   
• "Total dissipation" - this is only an indication of how hot the controller will run (or more precisely: how much heat it releases per second).
  There is no limit here: very high values like 500W dissipation could be OK if the controller heatsink is well designed. But lower values are better because it means the controller is wasting less energy.
   
• "% of max dissipation" - this was our main metric for concluding how much the chips are stressed, relative to their specsheet ratings. Treat it as a relative value: we can't say exactly what number is "dangerously high," but do use it to compare stress to the older EUC models.
  If you were hoping for a controller that is "stronger" than old simple ones like MSX 84V, look for values less than (27%) here. MSX was durable and makes a good baseline (first row). And some people did melt the legs off its FETs  

 

S22 is underwhelming in this analysis, and the conclusion it supports is: S22's FETs would be damaged more quickly, if it were to climb a steep hill for a long duration, compared to RS or T4.
Likely, Kingsong has reduced the motor current limit in its firmware, to help protect this controller and its lackluster chips from damage.
And beware, the rumor mill is hinting an imminent update to the S22's controller's FETs, so this conclusion might change for future S22's.

Master 3rd batch is slightly better than S22's controller... but still not great, compared to older designs.
It will run hotter for the same motor current than [Sherman etc], and its chips are closer to their rated limits.

.02

[Freeforester]

https://youtu.be/x46rqNExhrM

[techyiam]

25 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

https://youtu.be/x46rqNExhrM

I think you could have easily posted this video in the Mten4 thread. I think it promoted the Mten4 more than the EX30. The Mten4 was flying up that mountain road, despite have a 11" wheel, no suspension, and a 1000W motor. 🙂

[Freeforester]

Do feel free to do so, I’m not following that thread, I posted it for the possible interest it may be for those considering the EX 30, which I personally think due to its overall weight may not be the best choice for off-roading, but of course there are different categories of same.

[Sabestian]

23 hours ago, Freeforester said:

https://youtu.be/x46rqNExhrM

I think there is a very important information that we can extract from this video. Assuming the damper is not pumped to 400psi and that the rider is adult weight, they actually altered the geometry of the linkages. It seems that there is a proper progression and no bottoming out. 

[Eucner]

1 hour ago, Sabestian said:

It seems that there is a proper progression and no bottoming out.

I wouldn't make too much conclusions from that video. Even Mten4 was doing fine there.

[The Brahan Seer]

On 10/26/2022 at 8:34 PM, Bizra6ot said:

The thing is that most people talk about feeling but few bring numbers, those like kuji or wrongway who display numbers on acceleration show that there is really little if no difference, kuji is a master of lean and makes times equivalent to an exn C30
Same on the acceleration race of amped eletric games the 100V C30 and 134V C38 are pretty close 

The discussion on this over the last couple of pages has been very enlightening. Thank you to everyone who has contributed. @wstuart @mrelwood @RagingGrandpa @techyiam et al. 

So the upshot is 100V wheels will accelerate as fast as >126V wheels from standstill to say 30MPH.*

The advantage of higher voltage is realised when going over say 30Mph. Where acceleration will continue quickly whilst 100V will lose steam.*

 

*everything else being relative (weight, rider input, power etc).

 

@Bizra6ot Your chart from the Amp games really does support this. Thank you.

[Unventor]

On 10/26/2022 at 5:35 AM, techyiam said:

You don't have data to support this. Alienrides have the Master Pro in stock. It is currently outselling the T4. Yet, we haven't heard buyers complaining that they are disappointed. 

I am pretty sure if you or @Unventor buy a Master Pro, you two would provide the data points. But you both have no use for this wheel so that won't happen. 

Nope I don't intend to buy any GW or GW subbrand wheels. 

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Nope I don't intend to buy any GW or GW subbrand wheels. 

Ah, man of principle. I don't blame you though. Even Bradley roasted Begode for poor quality in his latest video. So, I take it back.

[techyiam]

Look at the hill climb at end of the video. The speed at which it was still climbing in the last half looked impressive to me, considered how far up, it had already climbed.

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by techyiam

[Freeforester]

Yeah, but the earlier part of the vid seems to suggest that the rider isn’t exactly on the same page as Shibby’s jumps on the latest WW vid, and I’m not too sure about the way the rear pads are seemingly  squished/floppy in one of the ‘jumps’ he does attempt (0:27, 0:51); to be fair though, you’d need to convince me of a reason to take such a heavy lump for off-road fun, others may of course differ in this view. It’s got power, that much is clear, but will it stay together? Going by recent releases, I’d be tempted to hang fire, until we see a decent teardown, up-close scrutiny and critical opinions thereon.  I get it as a long range road cruiser, but as a trail wheel? 

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

It’s got power, that much is clear,

+1

The last part of the video was what I thought Begode was showcasing the mighty climbing torque of the EX30.

[EMA]

1 hour ago, Freeforester said:

Yeah, but the earlier part of the vid seems to suggest that the rider isn’t exactly on the same page as Shibby’s jumps on the latest WW vid, and I’m not too sure about the way the rear pads are seemingly  squished/floppy in one of the ‘jumps’ he does attempt (0:27, 0:51); to be fair though, you’d need to convince me of a reason to take such a heavy lump for off-road fun, others may of course differ in this view. It’s got power, that much is clear, but will it stay together? Going by recent releases, I’d be tempted to hang fire, until we see a decent teardown, up-close scrutiny and critical opinions thereon.  I get it as a long range road cruiser, but as a trail wheel? 

35kg is already a lot for a serious off-road fun...imagine 45 

[Sabestian]

I like the way they ride it. 

https://www.facebook.com/100036517330335/videos/pcb.5589256841172233/636360174648582

[techyiam]

Was Begode hard at work on their EX30 suspension?  Watch for the smooth suspension action, especially near the end of the video, when going down a flight of stairs. It's like butter.

 

[mrelwood]

23 hours ago, techyiam said:

Was Begode hard at work on their EX30 suspension?  Watch for the smooth suspension action, especially near the end of the video, when going down a flight of stairs. It's like butter.

To be fair, he rides the stairs very fast. If you look at the rim, it isn’t doing much movement up and down, it looks to be mainly just the tire compressing on the stairs’ edges.

Despite that, the suspension action does look very smooth and adorably soft. But so did the EX20S. Bottoming out has been maybe the main issue in the latest Begode suspensions, and I can’t see anything in that video that would suggest that the issue would or wouldn’t have been fixed.

[techyiam]

47 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Despite that, the suspension action does look very smooth and adorably soft. But so did the EX20S.

Perhaps both videos cheated by using low tire pressures. The EX30 does have 10 mm more travel though. But if you watch some of the earlier EX30 videos, it bounces a lot more.

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by techyiam

[Ben Kim]

On 11/8/2022 at 9:01 AM, mrelwood said:

To be fair, he rides the stairs very fast. If you look at the rim, it isn’t doing much movement up and down, it looks to be mainly just the tire compressing on the stairs’ edges.

Despite that, the suspension action does look very smooth and adorably soft. But so did the EX20S. Bottoming out has been maybe the main issue in the latest Begode suspensions, and I can’t see anything in that video that would suggest that the issue would or wouldn’t have been fixed.

It has the same 100mm travel as the T4, I would imagine it should be an improvement over the Master. 

[EMA]

On 11/7/2022 at 3:21 PM, techyiam said:

Was Begode hard at work on their EX30 suspension?  Watch for the smooth suspension action, especially near the end of the video, when going down a flight of stairs. It's like butter.

 

you can see the linkage has been upgraded using more space on top (under the seat) . this was possible by moving the light into another spot ( T4 on the side - EX30 lower on the back )
 

[CrabChampion]

Looks like the ex30 first batch will now have aluminum battery boxes

[MrMonoWheel]

9 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Looks like the ex30 first batch will now have aluminum battery boxes

Well shit now I like the ex30 a little more.

[Ben Kim]

17 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Looks like the ex30 first batch will now have aluminum battery boxes

Looks like they’re recycling those boxes from the EX20S 

[CrabChampion]

3 hours ago, Ben Kim said:

Looks like they’re recycling those boxes from the EX20S 

They were originally going with an outer metal shell that goes over the existing battery boxes, but That added 3kg of weight on each side. Not sure if they are going to reuse the same design as the ex20s, but I welcome it

[MrMonoWheel]

2 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

They were originally going with an outer metal shell that goes over the existing battery boxes, but That added 3kg of weight on each side. Not sure if they are going to reuse the same design as the ex20s, but I welcome it

So are you saying instead they are going to be making the battery housings themselves out of metal and scrapping the plastic ones? I'm definitely a fan of that. 

[techyiam]

8 minutes ago, Unicycle Santa said:

So are you saying instead they are going to be making the battery housings themselves out of metal and scrapping the plastic ones? I'm definitely a fan of that. 

And on the Facebook page, there was a question asking whether the material should stainless steel, or aluminum alloy?

The other option is just to scale up or down the EX20S battery boxes.