Begode T4

[EMA]

14 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

If it rides well and offers 16x3 inch + suspension + 1800Wh + the rumored quite low price below $2400, it will be a fantastic wheel for everyone who does not want/need the most extreme specs but wants all the possible features otherwise.

exactly, finally it's the closest thing to an RS with a nice suspension  (smaller tire and +3kg )

the gotway sliders design is the best right now, solid, simple and super smooth with no stiction.

it work amazing even with the cheap factory shock...that's the great point that makes the Master awesome, T4 will sell even more imho.

[meepmeepmayer]

Yep, this could be a great first-but-forever wheel for everyone who wants top performance, but does not want a huge battery or huge weight or to pay crazy prices. Now with suspension!

RS: 2300 (18 inch, but a great entry price point if you want the latest performance)

16X: 1850-2100€/$2100 (a bit cheaper but also less performance)

Nikola 1800Wh: 2000€/$2200

V12: 2500€/$2300-$2500 (latest bells and whistles, but no suspension)

And now you can have the T4, with no performance compromises, and get in the suspension game, for around the same price point!

This should be seriously attractive to a lot of new riders. Let's hope Begode does not screw this up (price too high, or issues crop up).

[techyiam]

12 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

And now you can have the T4, with no performance compromises, and get in the suspension game, for around the same price point!

This should be seriously attractive to a lot of new riders. Let's hope Begode does not screw this up (price too high, or issues crop up).

+1. If Begode can keep early batch issues at bay, but be able to incorporate descent weather proofing, acceptable build quality, and a durable functional shock, this wheel can potentially dethrone the V12 HT for the mainstream market. 

I don't know about as a learners wheel, but as a step up, the T4 should be great. Right now, the V12 HT seems to be gaining popularity for this market segment. Begode response appears to be lightning quick. I hope Inmotion can counter respond  in haste.

[Wolverine]

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, Wolverine said:

This is unbelievable. The Master has barely reached the first customers and now they're already shipping the T4 demo units?? I'm sure they have sone common parts or at least common man hours, but still. KS and Inmotion spend at least a full dedicated year to launch each new wheel. And several behind the scenes before that.

How many design and manufacturing steps are GW/BG skipping to launch the models so fast?

[meepmeepmayer]

30 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

How many design and manufacturing steps are GW/BG skipping to launch the models so fast?

I think KS and IM are often making things way more complicated than necessary. Just look at how their wheels are built - so many custom small plastic parts for whatnot everywhere. Or maybe that's just how they want to do things.

The new Begode designs are a masterclass in simplicity. They obviously bought some metal work machines (CNC etc.) and now are just having fun, resulting in a wheel that has probably half the number of parts and a quarter the number of screws that KS/IM ones have. And Begode have always been big on modularity and common parts, while the other manufacturers  concentrated more on each wheel model individually, one after the other.

I'm not saying one approach is better than the other. But it's clear which approach is more efficient.

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

How many design and manufacturing steps are GW/BG skipping to launch the models so fast?

Not having to design, build, test, modify, test, tweak, modify, test, and modify injection molds saves a lot of time. Then try to build a second, third and 10th set so you can get your rate up. You don't have to do multiple iterations of resin to get the colors to match, you don't have to worry if a change is steel safe or not. But machined parts are expensive and not the best for rate production, with plastics all you're doing is amortizing the tooling cost.

In general, when you're looking for quick turns on a product, not having hard tooling is advantageous. The fruit company demonstrated that it is possible to do close tolerance rate production by machine finishing metal castings (KS tried this on the S18's sliders—not a success IMO). As that style of manufacturing continues to become more mainstream, and if your retail pricing can support it, I expect we'll see companies move further away from plastics and more toward the lego style assembly.

I do wonder a bit about replacement parts though. Quick turns usually mean there aren't lots of extra parts that can be shipped for service. We've already seen incompatible Master boards and batteries so some of those early adopters are already in a bit of a tight spot. It's unlikely V1 boards are being made anymore, and there probably weren't a lot of spares produced. If I had a V1 Master I'd be setting money aside for a V2 board+battery.

[UtahRider]

This T4 with high capacity cells (40T or 42a) is my dream trail wheel! EUCO and Alien Rides has it for pre-order, but waiting for EWheels to get their Litech packs. Anyone have recommendations for a good 16” knobby tire?

[Freeforester]

15 minutes ago, UtahRider said:

Anyone have recommendations for a good 16” knobby tire?

If they do, please pass it n to the Salamanca Begode cousins, then we’ll all be a-‘Braking Good’…

Okay, I’ll fetch my coat…

Edited August 7, 2022 by Freeforester

[EMA]

9 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I think KS and IM are often making things way more complicated than necessary. Just look at how their wheels are built - so many custom small plastic parts for whatnot everywhere. Or maybe that's just how they want to do things.

The new Begode designs are a masterclass in simplicity. They obviously bought some metal work machines (CNC etc.) and now are just having fun, resulting in a wheel that has probably half the number of parts and a quarter the number of screws that KS/IM ones have. And Begode have always been big on modularity and common parts, while the other manufacturers  concentrated more on each wheel model individually, one after the other.

I'm not saying one approach is better than the other. But it's clear which approach is more efficient.

exactly this !

you don't have to worry about new parts, once is proven use it, simple is better  

[The Brahan Seer]

Edited August 7, 2022 by The Brahan Seer
expect around £2250 UK price with tax, duties etc

[Funky]

15 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

2.2k not bad. Add (USA/EU) tax it's 2.5k?

[The Brahan Seer]

A french store is asking €2690 including tax. I'm guessing around £2250 in UK, which is the equivalent to that french price.
 

Edited August 7, 2022 by The Brahan Seer
I work out the UK price as 20% tax, +6% duties as a rough guide.

[supercurio]

I think the buying price for dealers is around $2k for the T4, something like that.
Then based on shipping costs, taxes, 1 or 2 year warranty, margin to cover the business expenses etc you'll see a range of customer prices.

[meepmeepmayer]

37 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

A french store is asking €2690 including tax. I'm guessing around £2250 in UK, which is the equivalent to that french price.

French stores are sometimes ridiculously overpriced, due to the dealers setting up exclusive sales in the country. It depends on the model (just had a look - want to pay 800€ extra for an Extreme Bull XM?). So I would not extrapolate too much from a French price.

This Ali store gives me 2100€ price. Whatever that translates to in MSRP in Western markets.

I think below 2500€ is realistic. AlienRides might be right with their $2400 estimate. Which is good. Too high and many will just buy a Master or S22.

[The Brahan Seer]

58 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

So I would not extrapolate too much from a French price.

Yes i agree. I put an edit to explain my figures. I appreciate  my words look like I just extrapolated the french price, but in reality it just confirmed my guess. All countries have their own various taxes, duties etc. and market forces. My original post was as a general consensus and potential delivery time for the UK market.

£1778 x 20% tax + 6% (uk duty) = £2250 (actually £2240 but just rounded up for simplicity).

Edited August 7, 2022 by The Brahan Seer
If we want to be pedantic the price would be £1778(price)+£107(duty)=£1885+£377(tax)=£2262.

[The Brahan Seer]

24 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Too high and many will just buy a Master or S22.

Even with the suggested prices above I would still be inclined to look at the original master at only 400-500 extra since you get so much more.

It will be interesting to see if the V3 master gets the rear light set-up as the T-4 and the other refinements to the suspension that are needed.

I await the reviews and verdict on the T4, still looks like a very promising wheel.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Yes i agree. I put an edit to explain my figures. I appreciate  my words look like I just extrapolated the french price, but in reality it just confirmed my guess. All countries have their own various taxes, duties etc. and market forces. My original post was as a general consensus and potential delivery time for the UK market.

£1778 x 20% tax + 6% (uk duty) = £2250 (actually £2240 but just rounded up for simplicity).

I just read "French price" and had to say something. Please don't take my writings as any more than that (it was not even a criticism of what you wrote), sorry. This actual number - 2700€ - might even be realistic, given that some stores sell the V12 HT for 2800.

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

It will be interesting to see if the V3 master gets the rear light set-up as the T-4 and the other refinements to the suspension that are needed.

Haha, that's what I'm secretly hoping for too! Bring the improvements from this wheel to the Master (improved suspension, better top box, adjustable light, maybe redesigned side pads, and so on) and I'm tempted to buy one.

[DjPanJan]

My opinion this T4 EUC not be ideal for heavy riders.

 

Not becasue Tire dimension or size 16inch vs 18inch reason why i think this is i use 27PSI on 16x and sherman (knoby 262 and L66) my MSP HT with michelin city pro (24PSI)

Weakest point is for heavy people(120KG/266lbs) original suspension in all actual suspension EUCs on market is not troublefree for 5000+KM/miles without mainterance for this heavy riders.   T4 just cant be exception.

 

Other story is "only" C30 motor 16inch help with torque i undestand still i think c38 be more efective for slow riding average (30km/h 18miles) with heavy people.

Peak of weight VS power was MSP HT 1800Wh C38 =24,5 KG break this is almost imposible in reality and new standard be 30+Kg EUC now and in future.

 

And companies are scared send to marktet "slow" EUC what cant go under 50 km/h (31mph) this is reason why torque EUCs is not dominant on market.

My opinion always be space in market for riders who prefer non suspension models just for troublefree non mainterance riding on good surfaces.

 

Benefit of suspension is hudge i agree but market is now in state where companies try find "best" solution for suspension and optimize on knife edge:

Efectivity VS robustness VS price of parts VS endurance over time VS dificulty to mainterance.

 

I like T4 is anounced and is another candidate to potencionaly buy in next spring 2023.

 

I keep my mind open and be watching forum how "new" models going in batches  because i want buy best of best on next spring.

 

[yoos]

8 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I think below 2500€ is realistic.

ecodrift preorder is 140 000₽ without warranty and 155 000₽ with warranty. This translates to 2250€ and 2520€ respectively. Note, however that the currency rate of ₽ is somewhat compromised (i.e. it's practical meaning is limited) since the government has severely regulated currency exchange and the forex market since the war began.

Edited August 7, 2022 by yoos

[Esash]

On 8/3/2022 at 2:22 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

Finally, a 16 incher with suspension! Looks great, like a Mini-Master. Too bad it's 100V/1800Wh only. But "super torque motor" sounds good.

Light angle adjustments!

Stock 5A charger!

All the bullet points point in the right direction of incremental improvements and listening to riders (a little)!

I wonder why they gave it the T (Tesla) name instead of making it the Nikola 2 (because that's the same tire size, unlike the Tesla).

Master Mini or Mini Master seems the name they really should have gone with. The Tesla and Nikola had their own distinct form factors, and this is obviously a Master doppelganger. And "Mini" is always a good marketing buzz word. iPhone Mini, Mavic Mini, Master Mini...

 

[Esash]

On 8/3/2022 at 4:00 PM, Funky said:

Same bro. What's the point of this wheel, if you can get so much more for 5kg more weight.. Like come on... Who idiot would buy this, if you can get real master which weights ~36kg?

They should make 16" suspension wheels low "Hw" and portable as possible - Fuck range and Duck speed. 18"+ are made for that.

This thing will sell like hotcakes. Assuming hotcakes still sell like hotcakes used to sell.  This is a better urban wheel than the Master, and it's also safer because of the proven 100 volt system. It's gonna be smaller too, better for public transport.

And range wise it will probably be about the same as the Master despite smaller battery, especially if they make a high speed version.

Much more nimble than the Master too for urban mayhem.

A lot of the same reasons this might be the better performing trail wheel than the Master as well.  And way lower to the ground. Master seems to be too high for most riders.

 

[Hellkitten]

Not gunna lie, this wheel looks fantastic! Anyone have an idea on the range..........?

[UtahRider]

3 hours ago, Hellkitten said:

Not gunna lie, this wheel looks fantastic! Anyone have an idea on the range..........?

That’s a good question. I get around 40 good road miles and 30 hard trail riding miles with my RS and I weigh 210lbs. Will the 16” T4 provide more, less or about the same miles than the 18” RS?

[Waulnut]

Looks like ewheels is only offering the higher power cells instead of higher capacity siting safety. 

Any thoughts? Between the two batteries.