Begode T4

[daniel1234]

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Guys, please remember these motor power numbers mean nothing. It's some strange amalgamation of the motor build and the board/battery capabilities. The exact same motor gets different numbers depending on the wheel. Best to ignore them.

So what is point of having current shunt measuring battery amps, and ignoring it (I am not claiming that it report real exact values - but it is ballpark value)?  What values you are watching then ? For me 60A seems realistic while riding 70km/h uphill on master - I would not pull more than 80A from 50e batteries since there are just passive protected. 

Obviously motor amp is value on motor winding - hundreds of amps on low voltage - different story. 

 

[mrelwood]

11 hours ago, daniel1234 said:

So what is point of having current shunt measuring battery amps, and ignoring it (I am not claiming that it report real exact values - but it is ballpark value)?  What values you are watching then ? For me 60A seems realistic while riding 70km/h uphill on master - I would not pull more than 80A from 50e batteries since there are just passive protected. 

Obviously motor amp is value on motor winding - hundreds of amps on low voltage - different story. 

 

He was talking about the announced motor power rating, not measurements. I fully agree with him, the announced numbers are mostly for number chasing. Which, granted, seems to rule the EUC validation process for most riders, so it's an easy way to steer purchase decisions. If the exact same T4 would be revealed in 2025, it would probably have a 3000W power rating.

Edited August 17, 2022 by mrelwood

[EMA]

msx c30 motor was rated 2000w at the beginning, than...

2000w with msp

2600w RS

2800w EXN

3000w Commander

 

ks done the same with 18XL...

s22 powerless 30mm motor is rated 3500w lol .... can't even climb a curb without struggle ...

simply marketing .

[EUCzero]

There are several ways you can define the power of an electrical motor.
Most common is not the output W, but how much electrisity is use. So input W (not output).  And that is just Voltage x Amperage. 
Thing is..... even if the MOTOR is 3500W, it is not certain that the EUC is 3500W. That only happens if the controller actually can give the amperage the motor need at a certain voltage.

Also..... Maybe the controller can give it, but not in a clean fashion. Like an Amplifier in a music system being 500W, but only with a high distorsion.

So stop looking so hard on the motor Wattage.
What we want to know is the system (battery, controller and motor) wattage, with no distortion  

Also... a 2000W motor will become a 2500W motor if you increase the voltage. 

 

[alcatraz]

Found a pic of a Master and a T4 next to eachother. Cute.

It's hard to believe that these two are only like 7kg apart.

https://ibb.co/5Wxz8TP

[Tawpie]

12 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

Found a pic of a Master and a T4 next to eachother. Cute.

It's hard to believe that these two are only like 7kg apart.

https://ibb.co/5Wxz8TP

Kewl! Sliders look to be the same basic shape but smaller on T4. And the rear part of the top 'frame' is different from Master as is the visible part of the suspension linkage. It's a riff on Master. Might have some improvements?

[alcatraz]

The pic is from an ad. The guy is selling his Master because he got his T4. Interesting choice.

[techyiam]

47 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

Found a pic of a Master and a T4 next to eachother. Cute.

Wow, when I was on the Master, it didn't feel that large. It wasn't small, but it didn't feel that big either.

That T4 looked so small in comparison in that photo. I like the size of that tire on the T4.

[techyiam]

Lukas of EEVEES, in the comment section of their video below, said that they were impressed with the T4 after a quick hop following the unboxing. 

Unboxing of the T4. Time-stamped. 

 

[wstuart]

35 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Lukas of EEVEES, in the comment section of their video below, said that they were impressed with the T4 after a quick hop following the unboxing. 

Unboxing of the T4. Time-stamped. 

 

When I commented on this video that I want a T4, Lucas replied that they had just ridden it and that they were very impressed. 

I think I'm gonna switch my pre-order from s22 to this....

[techyiam]

5 minutes ago, wstuart said:

When I commented on this video that I want a T4, Lucas replied that they had just ridden it and that they were very impressed. 

I think I'm gonna switch my pre-order from s22 to this....

Ha ha. That was you.

Check out how strong the headlight beam is, and how bright the tail light is. Also, the angle of the taillight is adjustable. 

Time-stamped 

 

[bracky72]

It looks really promising from the first glance at the internal construction. This is going to be  a huge seller. 

[techyiam]

2 minutes ago, bracky72 said:

It looks really promising from the first glance at the internal construction. This is going to be  a huge seller. 

On top of that Bradley said Begode spent a lot of time improving the suspension.  I can only surmised that the main focus was on the suspension links.

[DavidB]

On 8/18/2022 at 9:04 AM, techyiam said:

Wow, when I was on the Master, it didn't feel that large. It wasn't small, but it didn't feel that big either.

That T4 looked so small in comparison in that photo. I like the size of that tire on the T4.

The T4 in that photo next to the Master is bottomed out on the suspension so is 100mm/4" lower than it would be normally.

The shorter battery packs are raised at the bottom and the footplate pivot seems bigger than needed. Still room for improvement. The Korean video was interesting. The impression I got from the (bad) caption translation is that he was not sure if he prefered his V12 or the T4.  While the headlight is a lot better than the Master it did not appear as good as the lights on the wheels of other three he was riding with. Rear is bright but attachment seems weird.

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by DavidB
correction

[techyiam]

58 minutes ago, DavidB said:

The T4 in that photo next to the Master is bottomed out on the suspension so is 100mm/4" lower than it would be normally.

The outer slider tube is ridgely mounted to the hub, and the stanchion tube is showing at the bottom, not the top. So, sure. It looks like the owner decided to charged up the battery packs, before pumping up the shock. But I was commenting the overall size. Even with the shock setup, the T4 is still significantly smaller wheel than the Master.

58 minutes ago, DavidB said:

The shorter battery packs are raised at the bottom and the footplate pivot seems bigger than needed.

This is interesting. Begode lowered and pushed out a bit the pedals. Some people may prefer this.

58 minutes ago, DavidB said:

While the headlight is a lot better than the Master it did not appear as good as the lights on the wheels of other three he was riding with. Rear is bright but attachment seems weird.

I rode my V12 on a road that cuts through the woods. It was late, and there are no street lights on this road. So it was pitch black. Both the low and high beams were on. It was hard to make out what was in front me at speeds between 45 and 50 km/h. Mind you, on the T3, it is much worse. I am hoping the lights on the T4 are better.

It is hard to say how durable the taillights will be, but it looks much, much brighter than what is on the V12 or T3, hands down.

I really like the directions the lights on euc's are going.

Edited August 19, 2022 by techyiam

[Asphalt]

2 hours ago, DavidB said:

The shorter battery packs are raised at the bottom and the footplate pivot seems bigger than needed.

It’s room for the 8 more cells per pack required for 134V.

[meepmeepmayer]

56 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

It’s room for the 8 more cells per pack required for 134V.

I'm surprised by how small the battery packs are. Yes, this could be 134V 2400Wh. Or even 3600Wh, doubling the battery pack size (literal size too) in either voltage. Would be a great little distance cruiser for those who like it more light (relatively) and nimble!

[mrelwood]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:35 PM, EUCzero said:

There are several ways you can define the power of an electrical motor.
Most common is not the output W, but how much electrisity is use. So input W (not output).

The input wattage of course varies with a very large scale. The wattage numbers we see are the nominal power rating. It means the wattage the motor can handle at the input without overheating, for an extended amount of time. For how long, depends on the measurement conditions determined by the one who does the measurement.

Without a detailed description of the conditions, the value is mostly meaningless. Just like audio speaker power handling figures, or power amplifier wattage rating. As was brought up, a 20W amp can be a 150W amp when measured with 1% THD (distortion). And same goes for the speakers.

People simply need to stop looking at the wattage ratings. It's an even easier marketing ploy than the phone camera megapixels.

On 8/17/2022 at 1:35 PM, EUCzero said:

Thing is..... even if the MOTOR is 3500W, it is not certain that the EUC is 3500W.

That too, on top of all the above. Motor power rating doesn't have much to do with the system's output power, which is what we all want it to be. The manufacturers give us an arbitrary wattage value that somehow is increased when the battery capacity gets larger, so they seem to try having some kind of correlation to the actual output power. But it may still be made up by the marketing department.

 

On 8/17/2022 at 1:35 PM, EUCzero said:

Also... a 2000W motor will become a 2500W motor if you increase the voltage.

Increasing the voltage doesn't necessarily increase the actual motor power rating though. It might handle more wattage at higher voltage due the lowered current requirements, but it might not be as simple as P = U * I.

 

Back on topic though, I agree, the T4 will be a hot seller. At least until other manufacturers get their 16" suspension wheels out, hopefully next year.

Edited August 19, 2022 by mrelwood

[wstuart]

I did it.  I switched my pre order from S22 to T4

My reasons:

I am purchasing this wheel to be exclusively an offroad suspension wheel.  Here is what I am looking in an offroad suspension wheel.

1. Torque

2. Torque

3. Working suspension

4. Maneuverability (light & nimble)

5. Durability and parts support

What I do not need is a wheel that goes 40mph.  In fact, on the trails I ride, I struggle to find a stretch where I hit 20mph.  I like to ride tight narrow steep trails where my wheel allows me to pick my line and has the Torque to go up any line.  My MSP HT is amazing for this.  I really just want my MSP with suspension.

I was going to get the s22, but it was lacking Torque and maybe maneuverability too.  From some posts I saw, it also seemed to have the potential to lack durability.  Also I'm paying more money for the s22 so that it can go fast from 20mph to 40 mph...... which is a total waste for me.  

 

The Master had the same thing - paying for a bunch of speed I'll never use. And a suspension I would have tonimmediatly upgrade to make work.

 

I am still nervous buying this first batch gotway wheel, but this is probably the 8th HT 100v wheel they've made - so not to worried there, and their 4th suspension wheel.  Baring any dramatic QC issues, I'm hoping they can pull it off on the first batch.  

My only other concern is that with being 220lbs and 6'8" maybe I'm too big for this wheel....... but then I remeber how much I enjoy ripping around on my 16x and mten3.  It might look funny, but it gets the job done...

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, wstuart said:

I'm hoping they can pull it off on the first batch. 

I bet they will. There will be annoyances, but what else is new.

[wstuart]

I'm also hoping I'll be able to find a 16 inch knobby for it.  

[alcatraz]

The T4 looks great. Only the weight bugs me a bit.

[UtahRider]

5 hours ago, wstuart said:

I did it.  I switched my pre order from S22 to T4

My reasons:

I am purchasing this wheel to be exclusively an offroad suspension wheel.  Here is what I am looking in an offroad suspension wheel.

1. Torque

2. Torque

3. Working suspension

4. Maneuverability (light & nimble)

5. Durability and parts support

What I do not need is a wheel that goes 40mph.  In fact, on the trails I ride, I struggle to find a stretch where I hit 20mph.  I like to ride tight narrow steep trails where my wheel allows me to pick my line and has the Torque to go up any line.  My MSP HT is amazing for this.  I really just want my MSP with suspension.

I was going to get the s22, but it was lacking Torque and maybe maneuverability too.  From some posts I saw, it also seemed to have the potential to lack durability.  Also I'm paying more money for the s22 so that it can go fast from 20mph to 40 mph...... which is a total waste for me.  

 

The Master had the same thing - paying for a bunch of speed I'll never use. And a suspension I would have tonimmediatly upgrade to make work.

 

I am still nervous buying this first batch gotway wheel, but this is probably the 8th HT 100v wheel they've made - so not to worried there, and their 4th suspension wheel.  Baring any dramatic QC issues, I'm hoping they can pull it off on the first batch.  

My only other concern is that with being 220lbs and 6'8" maybe I'm too big for this wheel....... but then I remeber how much I enjoy ripping around on my 16x and mten3.  It might look funny, but it gets the job done...

As a first batch wheel, I think you’re going to be safe, in fact, probably the safest of the new batch wheels. I would’ve done same if I didn’t have Master on preorder for so long. Too bad the S22 just isn’t there yet, when it is, I’ll get one. Hope you get a great wheel and meets all your expectations!

[UtahRider]

2 hours ago, wstuart said:

I'm also hoping I'll be able to find a 16 inch knobby for it.  

Maybe the biggest issue w the T4. If you find one, let us know.

[dycus]

EEVEEs initial impressions: