Paul g Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rawnei said: Some follow-up information on the state of my Master, one of my packs is dead, it measures 0v on multi-meter, the other 3 packs are normal, wheel ridden less than 250km total with no falls or damages. Big AliExpress reseller which for now will not be named (giving them a chance to redeem this situation) together with Begode engineers wanted me to personally open up the pack and measure the cell groups, if cells are ok they said they would send me a new BMS which I install myself and if cells not ok they would send me a new pack, I said no I won't do this, I'm not an electrical engineer, have no experience working on batteries, don't feel comfortable opening up a pack to measure and definitely not comfortable to swap out the BMS on the pack, they insisted for some time and really pushed me to do it saying I wasn't cooperating which is totally nuts. Next they told me to send the pack back to them in China and I would have to cover the costs for that, obviously not an option to send a broken battery pack from Europe to China with all regulations in place and even so what cost that would entail for me. Next option they gave me was to send the pack to a service center in France for repairs and they would re-imburse me for shipping costs, well I did my due diligence and it's near impossible to send a battery pack like that for a normal person within EU, you need permits, tests, 30% SoC charge etc, all delivery companies have state a little bit different rules but they all reference the same EU regulations and rules for dangerous goods, what is clear is that you should never send a broken or recalled pack this way. So now I'm awaiting further replies how to go forward, they seem to have no concern at all for the potential fire hazard, for now I have placed the battery in a lipo bag on my balcony just in case, I would rather not just have it lying around my apartment. Reason I got this wheel from AliExpress was that I joined a group purchase and bought it from there against my better judgement, the purchase price was good but this type of non existent support for a clear warranty issue is really all hell to deal with. You’re absolutely right to not send that battery pack like that anywhere, it could put people lives in danger(and you can risk going to prison). The best is to seal and send the pack to an authorised recycling point and they should send you a new pack. They can’t ask you to do all that illegal stuff. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Paul g said: You’re absolutely right to not send that battery pack like that anywhere, it could put people lives in danger(and you can risk going to prison). The best is to seal and send the pack to an authorised recycling point and they should send you a new pack. They can’t ask you to do all that illegal stuff. Well they are, and according to the reseller it's Begode engineers insisting on it, I was sent a bunch of screenshots from group chat with Begode but since they are in Chinese I have no idea what is said. Edited September 27, 2022 by Rawnei 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul g Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Wgm said: Looks like he had 2500km on it. There is visible damage to the pack so may just take a look without tearing the wrap. Because Begode doesn’t make sturdy cases to protect the batteries, all of them seem to get damaged in one of the corners(especially the first pack from front where the euc hits stuff). That is why it is important for EUC manufacturers to follow a safe design rule and provide proper protection for the battery pack. Edit: That Nickel plate is very corroded and very dangerous, it can brake at any time. Would be advisable to take it to a repair centre or change it. Edited September 27, 2022 by Paul g 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Paul g said: Because Begode doesn’t make sturdy cases to protect the batteries, all of them seem to get damaged in one of the corners Yeah I am hoping the metal plates and bumper strip combo that I am going to cover all surfaces of those batteries (that aren't already covered by pads) with are going to be enough to avoid that... I have my doubts somehow. They seem to have learned the lesson with the metal packs on the EX30, but damn that thing is too heavy for me... Edited September 27, 2022 by Cerbera 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleepBloopBlop Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 I haven't read anywhere that the EX30 has metal battery enclosures. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cerbera Posted September 27, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 27, 2022 (edited) On 9/27/2022 at 10:22 PM, BleepBloopBlop said: I haven't read anywhere that the EX30 has metal battery enclosures. Oh hang on - I am getting confused with the Ex20S... oops ! Edited November 16, 2022 by Cerbera 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizra6ot Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Rawnei said: Well they are, and according to the reseller it's Begode engineers insisting on it, I was sent a bunch of screenshots from group chat with Begode but since they are in Chinese I have no idea what is said. Did you try with the google translate app? there is an option to import an image containing text from the gallery that will be scanned and translated Or from any online service by googling "ocr to text" to extract the text from your screenshot then use a translator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Guy Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 14 minutes ago, Cerbera said: Oh really ? - I don't know either ! I just saw the pictures and the massive weight and assumed... perhaps I am wrong to do so ! Not entirely impossible, yet unlikely that EX30 has a metal battery casing just judging by the weight. EX20s does, but it is considerably heavier... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) Reseller got back to me this morning insisting I use one of the transporters that I already linked them proof that they do not accept lithium batteries for transport at all saying that another customer already did exactly this so it shouldn't be a problem. Edit: LOL just now they wrote if I can just send it as a package and not write that it is a battery. Quote Postnord:https://www.postnord.se/siteassets/pdf/farligt-gods/dangerous-goods-postnord.pdf Lithium cells and batteries sent in isolation are prohibited, as are cells or batteries that are defective for safety reasons, or that have been damaged in any way. Shipping of lithium batteries with PostNord is only allowed when contained in, or connected to electronic equipment and devices. 9 hours ago, Bizra6ot said: Did you try with the google translate app? there is an option to import an image containing text from the gallery that will be scanned and translated Or from any online service by googling "ocr to text" to extract the text from your screenshot then use a translator Good idea, I did just that, the translate isn't perfect but you can tell some things, they seem to think that I ride at extreme speeds which is mentioned several times and I am guessing they deduce this from the EUC World tour log that I sent which is from the day before I noticed short range: 62kmh max speed, 27.5kmh average speed.. not extreme in my eyes specially not for Begode Master? Here is my extreme speed tour: https://euc.world/tour/613932876114163 Here is some interesting translation from one of the screenshots: Reseller: The customer has the ability to test, we will certainly tell him that we do not want to send batteries ah, send batteries so expensive! Begode: He didn't cooperate. What about the battery pack? Reseller: Then you have no battery output. Begode: So you need to measure the battery voltage. Reseller: The customer doesn't have the ability to test the core independently. Reseller: The output voltage of the battery pack can be simply tested. Begode: You were supposed to help with these problems. Reseller: <Broken smilie face> Begode: Enginer analysis, the core will not be so easy to break, may the fuse on the protection board burned, so to open the battery package test core voltage. Begode: A video is tutorials given to this customer than the high-tech Master dissasembly video Edited September 28, 2022 by Rawnei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 11 hours ago, Paul g said: Because Begode doesn’t make sturdy cases to protect the batteries, all of them seem to get damaged in one of the corners(especially the first pack from front where the euc hits stuff). That is why it is important for EUC manufacturers to follow a safe design rule and provide proper protection for the battery pack. Edit: That Nickel plate is very corroded and very dangerous, it can brake at any time. Would be advisable to take it to a repair centre or change it. a metal case is better for sure, but this is not the case, you can hit the top part of the batteries in some unlucky way if you don't protect them but it's almost impossible to hit the lower part in any case this is a current issue, the nickel plate should be doubled in that spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul g Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, EMA said: a metal case is better for sure, but this is not the case, you can hit the top part of the batteries in some unlucky way if you don't protect them but it's almost impossible to hit the lower part in any case this is a current issue, the nickel plate should be doubled in that spot I know more about the old wheels, like MSP, EXN type. The new ones continue to have similar issue- as you can see from that picture, that nickel plate sticks out and forms an elevated point on the pack. All begode packs seem to be built like that which is a problem because it exposes that plate to mechanical failure, current doesn’t wear the plastic in that way, it can melt it, but it doesn’t look like melting there to me. Edited September 28, 2022 by Paul g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, Paul g said: current doesn’t wear the plastic in that way, it can melt it, but it doesn’t look like melting there to me. too much current heat up the strip and the plastic, simply that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul g Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 From these pictures it looks more like rust on the plastic and signs of corrosion on the nickel plate from the exposure to the elements than overheat signs, but I could be wrong, since I can’t tell that only from watching the pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 sorry but this has nothing to do with rust or corrosion. this could happen exactly on the first or last group of cells because these are the points where all the current flows, it's the reason why the nickel strip are already way bigger compared to the middle groups, the big picture will make it clear : 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCzero Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Nickel plates will corrode AFTER being overheated as the nickel protection is then damaged, and the iron underneath starts to corrode. So the corrosion is a sign of overheating in my opinion. About Ronnies situation... Makes me uncomfortable as I am waiting for a wheel from the same seller. FUCK! 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Months later, the batteries issues observed on Master are matching the predictions LiTech CEO shared with me during a call. He said back then that they analyzed Begode's BMS and found issues that would certainly prove problematic over time, just like previous Begode designs. That's part of what decided eWheels and LiTech to design their BMS from scratch. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RagingGrandpa Posted September 28, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Paul g said: From these pictures it looks more like rust It melted. More demonstration here. 1 hour ago, supercurio said: Begode's BMS - issues that would certainly prove problematic over time, just like previous Begode designs To be fair, Master V1 was not a "BMS problem" Instead, it's undersized connections. Previous Begod designs did not put the full system current through a single pack. So: a new problem, and a simple fix, which was deployed quickly. (Condolences to those who got stuck with a V1 without warranty support... at least that group of owners is small.) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koto Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) On 9/25/2022 at 8:10 PM, EMA said: firmware update Yes, it has been fixed by a firmware update. The firmware name is "Master v2". Begode gave the reseller this information after receiving the serial number of my wheel. So we can quite safely say that I really own a master v2. After this firmware upgrade, EUC World reports the same temperature as what we can read on the screen of the wheel; With the OG firmware, EUC World constantly reported 37 degree celcius Edited September 28, 2022 by koto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul g Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 2 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said: It melted. More demonstration here. To be fair, Master V1 was not a "BMS problem" Instead, it's undersized connections. Previous Begod designs did not put the full system current through a single pack. So: a new problem, and a simple fix, which was deployed quickly. (Condolences to those who got stuck with a V1 without warranty support... at least that group of owners is small.) Sergei from @iCafe agrees. I know he has first hand experience of that. It looks like the nickel strips they use are very thin as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul g Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 It was inevitable 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chanman Posted September 28, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 28, 2022 Fried board isn't really catching fire imo, but good to know it can happen I guess. Nasty hand injuries, leather gloves seem to be a good piece of kit the high speeds we can get on these new wheels. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul g Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, chanman said: Fried board isn't really catching fire imo, but good to know it can happen I guess. Nasty hand injuries, leather gloves seem to be a good piece of kit the high speeds we can get on these new wheels. That board needed some mechanical protection, don’t you agree? When I think at Begode those Chinese single use cameras are the first thing that pops up in my mind. It’s kind of a philosophy of life they have enshrined in their company DNA. And I wouldn’t ride that thing after a crash Edited September 28, 2022 by Paul g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 45 minutes ago, Paul g said: That board needed some mechanical protection, don’t you agree? It's the luck of the draw a bit though isn't it ? For example this board obviously took a hammering in a crash at 28 mph, yet the guy who came off his at 70 the other day was able to ride his home afterwards, and that other video where 2 masters get comprehensively thrown down cliffsides, and miraculously seem to survive that too ! Yes to leather gloves hey ? - those finger scrapes look pretty grim. Do we have any more detail about what caused the crash, how it impacted and if the seat came off during its tumble, exposing the boards flimsy plastic cover ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul g Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 33 minutes ago, Cerbera said: It's the luck of the draw a bit though isn't it ? For example this board obviously took a hammering in a crash at 28 mph, yet the guy who came off his at 70 the other day was able to ride his home afterwards, and that other video where 2 masters get comprehensively thrown down cliffsides, and miraculously seem to survive that too ! Yes to leather gloves hey ? - those finger scrapes look pretty grim. Do we have any more detail about what caused the crash, how it impacted and if the seat came off during its tumble, exposing the boards flimsy plastic cover ? The one at 70kmph I think the wheel leaned on a side and then tumbled from one side to the other hitting the ground mostly with the pads... It was a miracle, nobody expected it, which says a lot. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve even said before, those foam protectors are a really good thing, but it’s obviously not enough, they must come in a package with proper battery housing. Leather gloves, absolutely. His hand was ripped. I personally have some motorcycle ones with carbon knuckles protectors, but they’re not as good as I thought they’ll be , because it limits the movement. I spent a lot on them but maybe I’ll need to change them. It hit the upper part and the board was fried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brahan Seer Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 His update to the crash is here: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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