Begode Master 134V 2400WH Suspension

[UtahRider]

7 hours ago, Cerbera said:

It's the luck of the draw a bit though isn't it ? For example this board obviously took a hammering in a crash at 28 mph, yet the guy who came off his at 70 the other day was able to ride his home afterwards, and that other video where 2 masters get comprehensively thrown down cliffsides, and miraculously seem to survive that too !

Yes to leather gloves hey ? - those finger scrapes look pretty grim.

Do we have any more detail about what caused the crash, how it impacted and if the seat came off during its tumble, exposing the boards flimsy plastic cover ?

I think the 70 crash you’re referring to was a Master Pro “Crash at 100kph” vice a Master.

[Paul g]

4 hours ago, UtahRider said:

I think the 70 crash you’re referring to was a Master Pro “Crash at 100kph” vice a Master.

Yes, it actually was a Master Pro, but they’re similar in construction.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Paul g

[Rawnei]

So the ugly dance with the reseller continues, they keep insisting that I repair the battery myself or send it illegally not branded as a battery to a service center in France, they also keep saying that it's Begode that is refusing to send a new pack and expecting customers to repair battery packs themselves.

There is a local service center / shop for battery repair here in Stockholm, I mailed them and asked them if they would be able to replace the BMS and what it would cost, I informed the reseller about this but they say it's too expensive and keep insisting I send the battery illegally to France instead (they keep repeating this multiple times although I keep pointing out that it's not allowed) and saying that other Swedish customers already did that without a problem, I told them just because other customers broke the law doesn't mean I will do the same.

Right now everything is in a deadlock because they are not giving me any realistic options and wont accept using the local battery repair shop.

[Robse]

4 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

and keep insisting I send the battery illegally to France instead (they keep repeating this multiple times although I keep pointing out that it's not allowed) and saying that other Swedish customers already did that without a problem, I told them just because other customers broke the law doesn't mean I will do the same.

And legal or not - if you shipped the bat (as they suggest) , and it catches fire and or explodes, people get hurt, die ... material damage etc. then who is responsible for that?

( you ) 

This is a completely unacceptable behavior by those who sold you the item !

[Kutvis]

21 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

So the ugly dance with the reseller continues, they keep insisting that I repair the battery myself or send it illegally not branded as a battery to a service center in France, they also keep saying that it's Begode that is refusing to send a new pack and expecting customers to repair battery packs themselves.

There is a local service center / shop for battery repair here in Stockholm, I mailed them and asked them if they would be able to replace the BMS and what it would cost, I informed the reseller about this but they say it's too expensive and keep insisting I send the battery illegally to France instead (they keep repeating this multiple times although I keep pointing out that it's not allowed) and saying that other Swedish customers already did that without a problem, I told them just because other customers broke the law doesn't mean I will do the same.

Right now everything is in a deadlock because they are not giving me any realistic options and wont accept using the local battery repair shop.

Good work! Dont give In. I have had similar issue with Scooterhelden.

Which EUC Shop we start to boycot? 

[Cerbera]

6 hours ago, UtahRider said:

I think the 70 crash you’re referring to was a Master Pro “Crash at 100kph” vice a Master.

Dammit, you're right ! That's the second time in as many days I have got the wrong machine  It's almost as if there are too many different types ! Excuses excuses... raise your game CBR ;)...

[iCafe]

It seems that only Samsung 50E, 2400Wh version has issue with overheated nickel strips, burned cables.

This version is dedicated for max Range. Both Samsung 40T and Molicel P42A is made for Performance.

If your weight is over 50kg, your riding speed is over 50kmh, forget the Range, Performance is your safe choice.

Edited September 29, 2022 by iCafe
important message on Master 50E

[supercurio]

9 hours ago, iCafe said:

It seems that only 50E, 2400Wh Master V1/V2 version has issue with overheated nickel strips, burned cables.
Samsung 50E version is designed for Range. Both Samsung 40T and Molicel P42A is made for Performance.
You can get any battery packs build by Litech or Begode, for your convenience and personal preference.
If your weight is > 50kg, your riding speed > 50kmh, Performance is your Bitch.
Wanna test the limits? Good luck, but please, do not blame resellers and factories for your bad judgement. 

@iCafe bad call to blame customers for their choice of wheel, when the issue is obviously inadequate engineering and/or QA resulting in a faulty product from the manufacturer.
Furthermore, this statement is self-contradicting, both saying that 50E is the right choice for range but that everybody above 50kg must buy a high drain variant instead.

Agree that it's not the dealer's fault in any way, it's a huge issue for them just as much.

Your assumption here is that it is the cells themselves over-heating the nickel strips. That's an interesting theory, but would need to be measured before going to conclusions.
Edit: actually I missed something here, now developed further in the post below

As additional context, it is not the first time @iCafe blames customers for problems they face, including @Rawnei specifically. Knowing the full story: this message is a mildly veiled personal attack against him.

Edited September 29, 2022 by supercurio

[Rawnei]

54 minutes ago, supercurio said:

@iCafe bad call to blame customers for their choice of wheel, when the issue is obviously inadequate engineering and/or QA resulting in a faulty product from the manufacturer.
Furthermore, this statement is self-contradicting, both saying that 50E is the right choice for range but that everybody above 50kg must buy a high drain variant instead.

Agree that it's not the dealer's fault in any way, it's a huge issue for them just as much.

Your assumption here is that it is the cells themselves over-heating the nickel strips. That's an interesting theory, but would need to be measured before going to conclusions.

As additional context, it is not the first time @iCafe blames customers for problems they face, including @Rawnei specifically. Knowing the full story: this message is a mildly veiled personal attack against him.

This is off-topic but just for context what @supercurio is talking about it's this:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/EUCsweden/permalink/3100220436881596/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/EUCsweden/permalink/3191442677759371/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/EUCsweden/permalink/3253068504930121/

[Rawnei]

A small but for me happy update, the reseller has agreed to send me a replacement pack to replace the broken one.

[Kutvis]

3 hours ago, iCafe said:

It seems that only Samsung 50E, 2400Wh version has issue with overheated nickel strips, burned cables.

This version is dedicated for max Range. Both Samsung 40T and Molicel P42A is made for Performance.

You can get any battery packs build by Litech or Begode, for your convenience and personal preference.

If your weight is over 50kg, your riding speed is over 50kmh, forget the Range, Performance is your Bitch.

Wanna test the limits? Good luck, but please, do not blame resellers/ factories for your bad judgement. 

This IS totally and utterly BS from start to end and you know it. If you really are posting on behalf of your company it makes me wonder if you are drunk? What an attitude! 

If the wheel can't take the load it must be limited by engineers and it is factory + shop job to prevent danger to customers, at least in the EU. In the EU you have to sell what you advertise… you know? 

I wonder what swedish customer protection laws would say on this reply and I do encourage customers with problems refer to this post on reclamations.

I also want to point out it is illegal for customers to operate products with this high voltage In many EU countries. Customers can't fix the wheels at all by law. 

What an attack to your customers @iCafe  lets hope many read your reply on this issue before they decide for a purchase. Here is one who will not be buying litech Master from your shop.

 

Back to subject: Any info on #3-model changes?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Kutvelo

[RagingGrandpa]

5 hours ago, Kutvelo said:

Any info on #3-model changes?

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/26527-begode-master-134v-2400wh-suspension/?do=findComment&comment=434332 

[BleepBloopBlop]

The 40T and P42A cells are going to be able to deliver more current. This will end up stressing the nickel strips more leading to them failing sooner than a 50E cell version. 

[chanman]

The current output is still limited by both firmware and rider input, so saying that the high power cells will burn through an undersized nickel strip easier isn't really correct, they're not really the relevant factor.

Edited September 29, 2022 by chanman

[supercurio]

I agree with @chanman here, and there's an interesting side effect at play.

50E will have more voltage sag for the same power delivered.
It means that to get 4kW to the motor during an acceleration:

• 50E variant would sag from 128 V down to 110 V, draining 36.4 A of current from the packs
• 40T variant would sag 128 V down to 124 V, draining 32.5 A of current from the packs

These are invented numbers, possibly exaggerated and counting 0 loss, but it shows how in practical terms the 50E version will deliver more current for the same load.
Since the amount of heat increases with the square of the current, it's clear that a 50E variant nickel strips will run hotter (again for the same load)

Then the 50E cell themselves will get warmer too, due to their higher internal resistance. I don't know by how much and if that would be significant, maybe @BatteryMooch would have a better sense of that.

Edited September 29, 2022 by supercurio

[iCafe]

3 minutes ago, supercurio said:

I agree with @chanman here, and there's an interesting side effect at play.

50E will have more voltage sag for the same power delivered.
It means that to get 4kW to the motor during an acceleration:

• 50E variant would sag from 128 V down to 110 V, draining 36.4 A of current from the packs
• 40T variant would sag 128 V down to 124 V, draining 32.5 A of current from the packs

These are invented numbers, possibly exaggerated and counting 0 loss, but it shows how in practical terms the 50E version will deliver more current for the same load.
Since the amount of heat increases with the square of the current, it's clear that a 50E variant nickel strips will run hotter (again for the same load)

Then the 50E cell themselves will get warmer too, due to their higher internal resistance. I don't know by how much and if that would be significant, maybe @BatteryMooch would have a better sense of that.

Top performance electric motorcycles uses latest Molicel P42B, now P45A, highest current cells. Finger-thick cables keep system cool.

Me and Mike Sacristan filmed many overheated, rusty-by-leaked electrolite, LG50T, LOW current cells. Melted, burned solder on tiny nickel stripes.

[iCafe]

6 hours ago, Rawnei said:

A small but for me happy update, the reseller has agreed to send me a replacement pack to replace the broken one.

One pack out of four Samsung 50E? What makes you think it does not happen again? 😬

[Rawnei]

14 minutes ago, iCafe said:

One pack out of four Samsung 50E? What makes you think it does not happen again? 😬

With our history I'm wondering why you are even writing to me at all? There can't be any constructive or positive conversation to be had so I suggest we don't.

[UtahRider]

18 hours ago, Rawnei said:

So the ugly dance with the reseller continues, they keep insisting that I repair the battery myself or send it illegally not branded as a battery to a service center in France, they also keep saying that it's Begode that is refusing to send a new pack and expecting customers to repair battery packs themselves.

There is a local service center / shop for battery repair here in Stockholm, I mailed them and asked them if they would be able to replace the BMS and what it would cost, I informed the reseller about this but they say it's too expensive and keep insisting I send the battery illegally to France instead (they keep repeating this multiple times although I keep pointing out that it's not allowed) and saying that other Swedish customers already did that without a problem, I told them just because other customers broke the law doesn't mean I will do the same.

Right now everything is in a deadlock because they are not giving me any realistic options and wont accept using the local battery repair shop.

Is returning the Master an option you’ve considered?

[UtahRider]

2 minutes ago, UtahRider said:

Is returning the Master an option you’ve considered?

Never mind, I didn’t see your last post.

[enaon]

16 hours ago, iCafe said:

It seems that only Samsung 50E, 2400Wh version has issue with overheated nickel strips, burned cables.

 

is this verified, have you really checked and can say for a fact that molicel masters with begode bms have thicker stripes than Samsung 50e ones?
 

I m asking for a friend that wants to get the v1 molicel version second hand, and is a bit worried. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by enaon

[EMA]

as far as i know this is the first 50E master that shows a battery issue, all the others episoded (really few) involve 40t or moli.

10 hours ago, supercurio said:

I agree with @chanman here, and there's an interesting side effect at play.

50E will have more voltage sag for the same power delivered.
It means that to get 4kW to the motor during an acceleration:

• 50E variant would sag from 128 V down to 110 V, draining 36.4 A of current from the packs
• 40T variant would sag 128 V down to 124 V, draining 32.5 A of current from the packs

These are invented numbers, possibly exaggerated and counting 0 loss, but it shows how in practical terms the 50E version will deliver more current for the same load.
Since the amount of heat increases with the square of the current, it's clear that a 50E variant nickel strips will run hotter (again for the same load)

Then the 50E cell themselves will get warmer too, due to their higher internal resistance. I don't know by how much and if that would be significant, maybe @BatteryMooch would have a better sense of that.

i could agree but it's hard to speak about those numbers without proper readings (something we still have not from our wheels)

really curious about temperature readings

Edited September 30, 2022 by EMA

[Wgm]

5 hours ago, enaon said:

is this verified, have you really checked and can say for a fact that molicel masters with begode bms have thicker stripes than Samsung 50e ones?
 

I m asking for a friend that wants to get the v1 molicel version second hand, and is a bit worried. 

I have only seen Murland Fish cut out at highspeed.  Photos on Facebook.  Due to nickel strip snapping after what I assume is too much current.  His was 42a V1.

[Rawnei]

Haven't heard a single case of Master V2 (2x2 setup) with burned Nickel strips regardless of cell type, moreover if 50e would be problematic cell choice for master we should have had many more cases by now already and not like I rode my wheel any extreme, in less than 250km I rode carefully with stock pads while waiting for Grizzla fairings system/bumpers/pads so if anything my single case is an outlier and not a benchmark.

 

My guess is it's classical problem of poor QC as usual.

[omshree]

Ok, have a V1, 1500 km, heavy use, 95kg with gear, off road, uphill, no problems at all, but took the battery to a service shop to reinforce the connector. For my surprise it was spotless, but did the hc reinforcement, see pics   

https://imgur.com/a/88gATdu

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by RagingGrandpa
(img url)