Begode EX20S 3600wh: 100V, suspension, 104lb

[PharmaCyclist]

5 hours ago, Paradox said:

This is getting very close to the battery case.  A poorly inflated tire or a heavy rider is going to hit that stair.

Source video:

https://cloud.video.taobao.com/play/u/2200727706762/p/1/e/6/t/10301/341483465833.mp4

I agree but I will also add that the tire and the shot looks very under inflated as well by how far it's depressing against the stair.

[Paradox]

17 minutes ago, PharmaCyclist said:

I agree but I will also add that the tire and the shot looks very under inflated as well by how far it's depressing against the stair.

I agree.  Riders of this wheel need pay attention to tire pressure as rim damage and battery case damage are the possible consequences. 

[GoGeorgeGo]

I wouldn't go mobbing stairs with this wheel though. Being 100+ lbs is just begging to damage components by jumping and the like. I think if you buy this wheel you really need to understand what your buying, a deluxe street cruiser. Especially if your purchasing the high speed version. Im sure its capable of stairs and offroading, but its really designed to eat concrete. If you want a wheel with more hybrid use cases, i would stay away from thise behemoth. But if your in the city and go on long long rides, this is going to be a killer wheel i think

Edited February 20, 2022 by GoGeorgeGo

[EMA]

12 hours ago, Paradox said:

This is getting very close to the battery case.  A poorly inflated tire or a heavy rider is going to hit that stair.

Source video:

https://cloud.video.taobao.com/play/u/2200727706762/p/1/e/6/t/10301/341483465833.mp4

agree

this is also related to the knobby tire which has no side structure compared to a street tire

[Seba]

On 2/20/2022 at 3:16 AM, PharmaCyclist said:

I agree but I will also add that the tire and the shot looks very under inflated as well by how far it's depressing against the stair.

...but if you approach the stair or curb from some angle, higher tire inflation won't help - you'll hit the stair/curb with the corner of battery.

[Planemo]

I saw a pic of the EX20S shock. It appeared to look like a regular air shock but it looks uncannily like a debaged €12 Meroca shock, which is essentially a small coil spring inside a lookalike air can. Can anyone confirm if the shock fitted to the EX20 has an air valve?

Edit, just seen another pic, it does appear to have an air valve but...does anyone know if the air can can be unscrewed/separated as per most air shocks?

Edited February 24, 2022 by Planemo

[fbhb]

1 hour ago, Planemo said:

Edit, just seen another pic, it does appear to have an air valve but...does anyone know if the air can can be unscrewed/separated as per most air shocks?

Don't know if this is one of the photos you were referring to, but this photo and text has just been posted on Facebook by Roger Underhill who owns an EX20S, comparing it to an S18 DNM shock:

"FYI. THE Begode shock for the EX20S next to the DNM from the S18. Same length, wider piston and chamber. Rebound damping screw visible."

 

@Planemo I think you have mentioned before that you don't do Facebook, so I could ask Roger Underhill on your behalf if you wish?

Edited February 24, 2022 by fbhb

[Planemo]

Hi mate, yes that was the pic, although I found it on google (you're right I dont do Facebook). Yeah if you get a chance it would be inteteresting to know if the stock can looks like it will come apart (as per every other air can I have seen). If he's playing around with shocks he will probably be pretty clued up on this point anyway.

I only ask because as soon as I saw it off the wheel it reminded me of one of the pretend air shocks given its bigger can and especially piston size (unusual). I remember one of the MTB guys a while back, he got hold of one and whatever he did, he couldnt get a decent ride out of it. After much head scratching he realised it was noticeably heavier than his old air shock so thought he would open it up but couldn't find a way of getting into it. Given the ride was so shit and was gonna throw it in the bin he took an angle grinder to it out of curiosity. Inside was a little coil spring. I cant remember if his one had an air valve or not, but if it did it was largely useless as the can wouldnt be any good at holding high pressure air anyway. It was and still is the only time I have seen a rip off pretend air shock.

Its all speculation at this point re the EX20 shock but it would be interesting to find out

 

[fbhb]

6 hours ago, Planemo said:

Yeah if you get a chance it would be inteteresting to know if the stock can looks like it will come apart (as per every other air can I have seen). If he's playing around with shocks he will probably be pretty clued up on this point anyway.

I did leave a question on his Facebook post for you and got a response, here is a quote of my question and his reply: 

ME: "do you know if the EX20S air cannister can be unscrewed/separated as per most air shocks? Cheers."

Roger Underhill: "I’m afraid I don’t. It seems like it’s made in the same manner as standard shocks though."

[GoGeorgeGo]

Good to see the shock is apparently something standard and easily swapped out. Hopefully they ship units with something that doesnt totally suck. Not much buzz on this wheel from the youtubers though so not sure when we will get better info. All the focus is on the smaller suspension wheels still. I think this one is being under rated though and people may look back through all the hype and realize they ignored the best of the bunch. Not sure theres as many extreme offroading jumping customers in the market as there are street cruiser customers. And this bad boy is going to blow away the other two in terms of street riding imo. Just the range alone should put it in the top tier of street wheels. The price is the one thing that may hold it back. I can only imagine it will be the most expensive euc ever made

Edited February 24, 2022 by GoGeorgeGo

[KCDailey]

Oddly enough, I just found out about this wheel in the last couple of days because I'd done the pre-order for the S20 but then started really looking into the Specs (and seeing the latest YouTube posts) and comparing them to the Master and came across the EX20S and am impressed/intrigued by it - really looking forward to more intel about this wheel. The specs are outstanding 

[RamonatheCat]

On 2/24/2022 at 8:35 PM, KCDailey said:

Oddly enough, I just found out about this wheel in the last couple of days because I'd done the pre-order for the S20 but then started really looking into the Specs (and seeing the latest YouTube posts) and comparing them to the Master and came across the EX20S and am impressed/intrigued by it - really looking forward to more intel about this wheel. The specs are outstanding 

Yes the specs are like those of what is imo a perfect wheel (maybe minus the weight). 3600 wh on a suspension wheel is awesome. I just can't get over the aesthetics - the word "stapler" won't get out of my mind. 

[alcatraz]

14 minutes ago, RamonatheCat said:

the word "stapler" won't get out of my mind. 

I think that if it's practical and looks funny, it's a double win. I say lighten up and enjoy the outlandish appearance.

[meepmeepmayer]

Specs-wise this wheel is godlike (ignoring the weight, which may be unavoidable). I'd buy one yesterday.

Looks and build quality and suspension quality are the critical issues.

[Tawpie]

Is it going to be worth 4875CAD? (on sale, including VAT, only listing that came up on Bing https://bluechipeuc.com/products/ex2-116v-2040wh-begode )

Max is going for 3800USD…

Edited February 28, 2022 by Tawpie

[RamonatheCat]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

Is it going to be worth 4875CAD? (on sale, including VAT, only listing that came up on Bing https://bluechipeuc.com/products/ex2-116v-2040wh-begode )

Max is going for 3800USD…

That seems really overpriced to me. I have a bad feeling they might list the v13 like that too.

[GoGeorgeGo]

Only 3699$ on ali. Still has a 1 year warrmty from begode you just need to nabigate that hy yourself which can certainly be tricky. Probably worth the 1100$ savings though to manage your own issues. Im guessing the biggest hiccups will be qith the suspension. The motor battery and board are nothing new here so shouldnt give issues 

[Nick McCutcheon]

It's still unknown how this wheel behaves at top speeds. The Commander HS is super sketchy above 45mph, the firmware is not tuned properly and can oscillate easily. I doubt this will be fixed unless enough people buy the wheel and complain, similar to what happened with the MPro. Contrast that with the Sherman, which feels great at 48mph and feels like it could go faster if not for the voltage limitation. This wheel has a 104kmh lift speed (HS) which is only 2kmh off from the commander's 106. I'd hope you'd be able to utilize that speed relatively safely.

If someone can test this behavior, and it turns out to be okay, I'm swapping my Sherman out for one as soon as I can. The Master is cool, but that battery is too small and will sag too hard to maintain top speed for any useful distance. Or maybe I should just wait for the inevitable next "gen" of 134v wheels, or the V13. But this has been my dream wheel for some time, a Sherman with suspension.

I've already messed up one Sherman axle, so I'm in a hurry to move away from crappy traditional axles that are mind bogglingly still not made to be thick enough. Veteran's solution would be great if it weren't for the subpar bearings, and I'm not well informed enough to comment on the quality of Begode's new small bearing motors. Seems like still a choice between two evils, thin axle or bad bearings. Now that I think about it, has it been confirmed what type of motor this wheel uses? 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Nick McCutcheon

[GoGeorgeGo]

4 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

It's still unknown how this wheel behaves at top speeds. The Commander HS is super sketchy above 45mph, the firmware is not tuned properly and can oscillate easily. I doubt this will be fixed unless enough people buy the wheel and complain, similar to what happened with the MPro. Contrast that with the Sherman, which feels great at 48mph and feels like it could go faster if not for the voltage limitation. This wheel has a 104kmh lift speed (HS) which is only 2kmh off from the commander's 106. I'd hope you'd be able to utilize that speed relatively safely.

If someone can test this behavior, and it turns out to be okay, I'm swapping my Sherman out for one as soon as I can. The Master is cool, but that battery is too small and will sag too hard to maintain top speed for any useful distance. Or maybe I should just wait for the inevitable next "gen" of 134v wheels, or the V13. But this has been my dream wheel for some time, a Sherman with suspension.

I've already messed up one Sherman axle, so I'm in a hurry to move away from crappy traditional axles that are mind bogglingly still not made to be thick enough. Veteran's solution would be great if it weren't for the subpar bearings, and I'm not well informed enough to comment on the quality of Begode's new small bearing motors. Seems like still a choice between two evils, thin axle or bad bearings. Now that I think about it, has it been confirmed what type of motor this wheel uses? 

Just my 2 cents, but any wheel over 45 mph is going to be a bit sketchy. Not sure its necessarily a firmware issue as much as it is a balance issue. I think the reason you feel that stability on the sherman is the even distributed battery packs and the top mounted control board. Which the ex20s is going to have even weight distribution unlike the mpro. ( im not familiar with where the commanders board is, i believe it is top mounted though?) 

But im not so sure the intention is to have a wheel that rides over 45 mph. Your already pushing to the maximum safety margins at that point. I know some people will want to push past that but thats a really really niche segment of riders within a niche market of riders. 

For me the point of the high speed is so you can travel 35-40 with plenty of headroom to compensate for wind and hills etc. Unlike a torque motor which if your looking at a 42-45 mph cutout, puts you dangerously close to overpower at 40 mph. 

[RamonatheCat]

On 2/24/2022 at 12:24 PM, GoGeorgeGo said:

Good to see the shock is apparently something standard and easily swapped out. Hopefully they ship units with something that doesnt totally suck. Not much buzz on this wheel from the youtubers though so not sure when we will get better info. All the focus is on the smaller suspension wheels still. I think this one is being under rated though and people may look back through all the hype and realize they ignored the best of the bunch. Not sure theres as many extreme offroading jumping customers in the market as there are street cruiser customers. And this bad boy is going to blow away the other two in terms of street riding imo. Just the range alone should put it in the top tier of street wheels. The price is the one thing that may hold it back. I can only imagine it will be the most expensive euc ever made

so does this answer the question of which wheel you will buy? sounds like you might go with the ex20s - ngl the "cliff hanger" at the end of that youtube vid triggered me just a little bit lol. 

[Nick McCutcheon]

17 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Just my 2 cents, but any wheel over 45 mph is going to be a bit sketchy. Not sure its necessarily a firmware issue as much as it is a balance issue. I think the reason you feel that stability on the sherman is the even distributed battery packs and the top mounted control board. Which the ex20s is going to have even weight distribution unlike the mpro. ( im not familiar with where the commanders board is, i believe it is top mounted though?) 

But im not so sure the intention is to have a wheel that rides over 45 mph. Your already pushing to the maximum safety margins at that point. I know some people will want to push past that but thats a really really niche segment of riders within a niche market of riders. 

For me the point of the high speed is so you can travel 35-40 with plenty of headroom to compensate for wind and hills etc. Unlike a torque motor which if your looking at a 42-45 mph cutout, puts you dangerously close to overpower at 40 mph. 

This is true. The benefits of high top speed for most do indeed come in the form of headroom rather than usable speed.

It's starting to look like just due to the physics of keeping an 80+lb suitcase balanced, the motors Begode is using aren't able to react quickly enough regardless of tuning above 45mph, at least on the 100v system since motors have even less power available the closer to the the limit they are. This is the unfortunate reality I was holding off on accepting, lol. MPro riders seem to be able to push it pretty far though, I wonder what is different in that case. Maybe they just deal with the firmware weirdness quietly. The Commander is basically laid out the same as the Sherman, even distribution and top mounted board. However it's very possible that the Sherman's packs are lower on the wheel which would improve top heaviness and stability. 

And yes, I am in that niche within a niche 😅. These things are basically motorcycles without the need for parking or registration, so the faster and farther you can go at those fast speeds, the more desirable they are at least for those in this double-niche. The only reason I don't have a 60/70mph hyper-scooter is because they're a bit too big and heavy to casually take inside the grocery store, and there's no way I'm leaving something so valuable and shiny-looking on a bike rack. The closer to a RION EUC we can get, the more excited I'll be! 134v seems promising for this reason, but it may just be better to wait for a 134v equivalent of the MPro or Commander instead of trying to squeak out the last possible mph from the 100v system.

Even still, to your point, who knows how these theoretical new wheels will perform at top speed, probably not well if they are just as heavy. The videos from Begode on the Master show it reaching the beeps without much trouble, which surely are at a higher speed than the Commander. So, maybe the endgame is just to have a reasonably-weighted wheel like the Master for firmware stability and make big backpack batteries to extend range. 

This is probably a dumb idea, but I've been thinking about adding "fangs" to my wheel similar to what's available for onewheels, so that if an overlean occurs it would not be certain catastrophe, and true top speed could be achieved. However such a solution would be bulky, as tiny wheels are not good at high speed, and they would have to be low enough to the ground to avoid a harsh forward tilt while also being high enough for reasonable ground clearance in the event of a pothole. Plus, spinning wheels up to 50mph instantly takes a lot of energy and the last thing you want in a case where they are needed is instability/shakiness. This why I haven't started working on a solution just yet, I'm not willing to start the r&d for this type of thing, and I'm doubtful that physics will make something like this feasible.

But this is all just the musings of a double-niche rider.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[GoGeorgeGo]

1 hour ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

This is true. The benefits of high top speed for most do indeed come in the form of headroom rather than usable speed.

It's starting to look like just due to the physics of keeping an 80+lb suitcase balanced, the motors Begode is using aren't able to react quickly enough regardless of tuning above 45mph, at least on the 100v system since motors have even less power available the closer to the the limit they are. This is the unfortunate reality I was holding off on accepting, lol. MPro riders seem to be able to push it pretty far though, I wonder what is different in that case. Maybe they just deal with the firmware weirdness quietly. The Commander is basically laid out the same as the Sherman, even distribution and top mounted board. However it's very possible that the Sherman's packs are lower on the wheel which would improve top heaviness and stability. 

And yes, I am in that niche within a niche 😅. These things are basically motorcycles without the need for parking or registration, so the faster and farther you can go at those fast speeds, the more desirable they are at least for those in this double-niche. The only reason I don't have a 60/70mph hyper-scooter is because they're a bit too big and heavy to casually take inside the grocery store, and there's no way I'm leaving something so valuable and shiny-looking on a bike rack. The closer to a RION EUC we can get, the more excited I'll be! 134v seems promising for this reason, but it may just be better to wait for a 134v equivalent of the MPro or Commander instead of trying to squeak out the last possible mph from the 100v system.

Even still, to your point, who knows how these theoretical new wheels will perform at top speed, probably not well if they are just as heavy. The videos from Begode on the Master show it reaching the beeps without much trouble, which surely are at a higher speed than the Commander. So, maybe the endgame is just to have a reasonably-weighted wheel like the Master for firmware stability and make big backpack batteries to extend range. 

This is probably a dumb idea, but I've been thinking about adding "fangs" to my wheel similar to what's available for onewheels, so that if an overlean occurs it would not be certain catastrophe, and true top speed could be achieved. However such a solution would be bulky, as tiny wheels are not good at high speed, and they would have to be low enough to the ground to avoid a harsh forward tilt while also being high enough for reasonable ground clearance in the event of a pothole. Plus, spinning wheels up to 50mph instantly takes a lot of energy and the last thing you want in a case where they are needed is instability/shakiness. This why I haven't started working on a solution just yet, I'm not willing to start the r&d for this type of thing, and I'm doubtful that physics will make something like this feasible.

But this is all just the musings of a double-niche rider.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I definitely feel you on the mini motorcycle feeling. I tend to think of it as a mini moped though. Built to do 35-40 , perfect for 90% of non highway roads. 

And fangs to me sounds like a tsrrible idea lol. It would ruin your turning radius and if the wheel stops balancing you would need them to be so far out infront of you in order to support your weight without tilting you right off the wheel regardless. 

I think the best you can hope for is super capacitors with the ability to maintain a rapid tiltback for 200 feet with a 200+ pound rider. That way in the event of a cutout, you just get quick but gradual tiltback to a stop. Wont prevent all accidents and could create different issues like stopping unexpectedly  the middle of busy traffic. But in those situations you where going to just faceplant anyways so a pair in one hand, two of a kind in another

[EMA]

3 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

MPro riders seem to be able to push it pretty far though, I wonder what is different in that case.

the diameter, it simply has a more suitable gear for high speed, and of course has more stability.

personally i've hit 45mph sometimes but not on a daily case, at least on my environment. What i benefit most from a HS wheel is the ability to go 40mph almost for the entire battery (simply what a c38 can't right now)

[Tawpie]

11 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

maintain a rapid tiltback for 200 feet

Let's see... assuming you're going at high speed, which for simplicity we'll call it 40 mph, you cover 200 feet in about 1/3 of a second. I'm guessing you'd want much more time-at-tiltback so you can react. And if you don't want a sudden tiltback (you don't), the caps will have to maintain power for longer still... a full second? You'd want to understand 'why' the control board is cutting out though... if it's to save the MOSFETs, maintaining 110% power is not going to end well.

Curious though. If you're not paying attention to your speed or either ignoring or can't hear the beeps, couldn't you always re-enable tiltback and get the same result?

[redsnapper]

16 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

I think the best you can hope for is super capacitors with the ability to maintain a rapid tiltback for 200 feet with a 200+ pound rider.

Sounds terrific but super caps required to power a tiltback with a 200lb rider decelerating from 30mph to a stop - this would require a pretty large array of caps no? One that would almost rival the size of the wheel?